[Closed] Children's rugby - scrum caps or not?

Protects the ears too, so my kids would be wearing them if they played.

i am in the no camp.

I'd say no.
Along with armour on a bike, there's a massive amount to be said for learning to do it properly, rather than having some sort of trust in padding to save you from a mistake. As you say, at that age group, it's very controlled and largely safe.

Scrum caps are more for abrasion than any "real" knocks, IMHO.

FWIW, I always played with my ears taped (From the age of about 11 or 12, anyway. Full contact rugby from 8 onwards) and never had a concussion, nor any cauliflower action. Also, I've never had a black eye in my life, rugby or otherwise!

No scrums yet though, ears ripping off or cauliflowering up is probably more of a risk in a few years...good point though.

Really torn on this - rugby is the most dangerous game per hour of activity that any of our kids will do. Way more so than mountain biking....a scrum cap seems not a bad idea. But then I also like the kids to learn and have healthy awareness of the risks.

So I am no help....

I'm tending no as well but...there is still doubt there. I wonder if there is any real data on the effectiveness of scrum caps for protecting for different types of impact...

In my opinion the only players that should wear scrum caps are locks (anyone else is just dressing up).

On a more serious note I don't think a scrum cap would make much difference as I suspect most injuries will involve collarbones, arms, legs etc.

And, as Matt says, it is potentially a dangerous game but both my kids really enjoy it, and at this age it's great for their confidence, fitness, agility, hand-eye coordination etc etc

It's more a problem when they're all 16 stone sprinters decking each other for 80 minutes!

I've just seen a young lad on a BMX wearing a scrum cap......

I wonder if there is any real data on the effectiveness of scrum caps for protecting for different types of impact...

[img] [/img]

😉

If you really think that a 3-6mm bit of neoprene or similar is going to protect against serious head injuries, I suspect you're wrong!

VPD or 3DO type stuff is great for knees and elbows, as it protects against an impact where the shaking effect is immaterial. In head injuries, especially concussion, I suspect a scrum cap would make next to no difference at all.

Most common rugby injury is an ankle sprain followed by separated shoulder.

Do a quick Google Scholar search.

I know there has been a lot of research on this of late but I am not familiar with the concencus. Last time I read something in this they were suggesting that caps can lead to a false sense of security and encourage peoe to take risks that they otherwise wouldn't do.

What is the national governing body currently recommend.

.

Can't find anything on the WRU website with regard to a scrumcap policy, just guidance to be aware of concussion and what to do...

I'm an assistant coach for my sons under ten team. Quite a lot of boys turned up with scrum caps for the start of tackling at the u9 stage but most soon got rid as they were just too hot most of the time. To be honest the tackling is pretty tame on the whole for the first half of this year and the most important thing is to teach good technique - get low with the head to the side (cheek to cheek) - as an aside I reeally dislike the professional level tackling as its all an attempt to prevent the offload so far too upright to be safe for young players to copy.

Tackliing at this age is all about mental attitude and technique and I've not seen any evidence for scrum caps are encouraging reckless tackling. So I would say if it makes you feel better and your boy can take the heat then go for it....but as others have said probably more use in stopping abrasions (they are rucking at U10s) than stopping a concussion injury.

an attempt to prevent the offload so far too upright to be safe for young players to copy.

Amen, brother!

I'd happily see the "choke tackle" ruling drummed out of the game. It's dull as dishwater and kills the game. Also, it leads to silly tackles, such as Sexton on Bastareaud this year. 1/2p also needs to look closely at his technique, IMHO.

Cheers pedlad (and the rest). Good point on the heat thing, my lad is in shorts in January so he'll def feel hot in one.

Still leaning towards no...

Lister - Im in the same spot as you. I am lead coach U8 tag at Ledbury RFC and my son is going up to U9 contact next season. I wont be going up with him and coaching the contact game though - I'm dropping back down to start again with Jr#2.

I'm in the no cap camp, BUT, nearly all of this years 9s are wearing them. The 8s (rising 9s) havent yet worked it out, theyre still absorbed in their own tag game, but once the first kid turns up with a cap, I expect the following weekend most of the rest will have nagged their folks to get one as well. I intend to stand fast and have Jr#1 go without for now.

It's a highly controlled contact game at 9s. Later on, caps will be a serious possibility. But for now, I think they are a distraction and I want the emphasis to be on the safe tackle techniques for now, rather than protection.

A top club and a small world stoner .... 🙂

Scrum cap - no
Mouthguard - yes, for sure
Armour - no
Teaching how to tackle properly - yes

Would be my view, but each to their own.

indeedy 🙂

I think they are excellent for preventing cauliflower ears. This is potentially quite an important consideration for a young lad's employability in the future (I know it shouldn't be an issue, but appearance can be important). If he is ever likely to join the pack then I suggest there is no harm getting him used to playing in a cap early and before it becomes a self-conscious issue.

my lad is 11 and been wearing one for two years...had a few clashes of heads in games I feel it helps also seen a few knees to heads and big tackles pounding lads into the ground so I'm happier.....he hates it and his gumshield though 🙁

I coach u12's and have seen the rise and fall. There's only two or three who wear them in our squad. I have made it clear to our parents that they do nothing but stop minor cuts and abrasions from clashes. My lad only wore one to keep his hair out of eyes as he wouldn't cut it!. I do insist on gum shields and dislike body armour.
Plus 1 for correct tackle technique.

My lad has been playing u9 contact at school this year. Half the kids wear caps. Almost all wear the padded vests. I'm neither for or against but I think the vests help with the impacts as their technique not always outstanding! I read 'controlled'. I see very physical - 3 punch ups this year or rather bout of fisticuffs. Some of the boys are very physical and some are unbelievably big for their age. I would probably say let him wear what he wants so he feels happy playing. If you played would you wear armour and a scrum cap!? I would.

Both girls at home play U15 and senior, older one tried under armour and scrum cap didnt like either but does wear scrum cap some games if in front row not if playing flanker, taken a few knocks to head but ok,currently out with ankle tear has had neck/shoulder injury with x rays etc, found extra rib :o. So FWIW I prefer them in scrum caps but would not have prevented this seasons injuries. high tackles and smother tackles OTOH. really scary

Blimey, we should all swap coaching notes!! I coach under 9s too, most of the lads wear them. I think it gives them a bit more confidence going in for the tackle if nothing else.

but caps didn't exist then anyway!

Considering my father wore one in the 1940s I think this is unlikely.

Not sure I agree with timidwheeler.

What does a cauliflower ear say to a prospective employer?

Alzhiemers at age of 35 or 40 would put me off any sport like this. Even includes heading footballs. From ONE head Injury never mind repeated.

Caps are debatable at that age. Tape for ears as junior goes up age grades. The big no-no is shoulder padding, kids should learn to tackle using their bodies. As for gloves...grrr.

Great thread, one of the most interesting here for a long while. My daughter is playing u11 and wears a scrum cap, mostly to keep her hair in place. The protection it offers is minimal but it's safer than her having a pony tail.
Love the comments about halfpenny, brave but foolish. And the choke tackle, having spent Easter being beaten to a pulp by my seventeen year old nephew, sixteen stone and six eight I wish he'd never learned it!
As for what does a cauli ear say to an employer, depends on the employer. My old boss had two cauli ears and if you played for the right team you got part way through the interview talking about rugby!
I love the game and my daughter enjoys it immensely, the best thing is the respect the players show each other and the ref. yes it's hard and dangerous but it's honest and honourable.

what does a cauliflower ear say to an employer? probably just that you're a keen sportsman/woman who might occasionally have a sports injury but is generally healthier than couch potatoes

turning up with cuts all over your knuckles and wondering if you should explain it's from climbing on grit and not from fighting isn't a great situation (and talking about "fist jams" would probably only make it worse)

My son's played league since he was 7 & it's been full contact from day one .
Most of the lads seem to wear one at that age , but most get rid as their confidence grows & then never go back . I've seen lots of clashes of heads over the years with cuts & bruises that could have been avoided , but it's each to their own really .
I'd say get one & see how it goes ,they're not too expensive nowerdays .
My son still wears his - tried it without , but he said it just felt weird without it & so always wears one ( u15's now ).

Over here (Ulster) we start full contact/rucking at U8s and my oldest has worn a skull cap since then. Doubt it will help with big impacts but is good for the knocks/abrasion that go on. My next youngest is U6 and playing touch rugby, he wears one too but they seem to take the touch on the hips to mean tackling 🙂

[i]In my opinion the only players that should wear scrum caps are locks [b](anyone else is just dressing up[/b]).[/i]

Partly agree with this - however, being a "lock" doesn't apply to kids' rugby, particularly at mini level.
However, maybe "dressing up" and being comfortable does. Nothing wrong with a kid wearing a scrum cap if it makes him feel more like a rugby player.
It's up to the kids in our squads. Some wear them, some don't. My lad wore one for the first few seasons, now doesn't unless it's really cold!
They certainly aren't designed to prevent head injuries or concussion.
They won't get cauli ears in minis either.

Here's a typical Sunday scene from our U12s. About half and half cap wearers and non. Ball carrier here is one of our best players, would make no difference either way to his play wearing it or not, but he likes wearing it..
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rvI1r51c1jCGqVTkLzwMrxPSTAGUj-d_MeVhTZSjypMA=w1386-h921-no [/img]
OP should let his son choose.

My lad plays on the wing for the local U11 Rugby League side. As one of the smallest, he wore light body armour to start with which gave him a bit of confidence. He dropped that as it makes him feel restricted. He also wore a scrum cap for a couple of games when he was in the U8 team but dropped that as he didn't like it.

He now wears no protection at all, will be getting a gum shield but that's it. It's down the the individual. As others have said, protection is minimal anyway. The most important thing is he enjoys playing.

The most important thing is he enjoys playing.

This

[i]The most important thing is he enjoys playing.[/i]

Indeed! A more succinct version of my post 🙂

I always played loosehead in school, never wore a cap, never got cauliflower ears or any head injuries etc.

By the time I started playing again a few years ago I was 2nd row material, and didn't wear a cap to start with - it was horrendous, I've got big ears, but even so, having them mashed between two fat lads hips whilst they're wearing some crusty old shorts is not nice.

So, 2nd row - without a doubt, anywhere else on the field, I'd not bother.

@core - the question was about a 9 year old.

Another coach here. Kids love to wear what they consider to be the "right kit". At under 7,8,9,10 you tend to see a lot of kids wearing caps and even gloves in the earlier years (personal bugbear, but, heyho, it's their money!) . Most important thing for me is their desire to keep turning up and "fitting in" as a team sport. My lad decided against his cap from about U10/11 onwards, and from U 11 when they put the full scrum together he wore light shoulder padding until a year or so ago (he's U17s now)

We have a smattering of cap wearers (maybe three on the full squad) , but as a team loosehead/district hooker my lad prefers to tape his ears.

I am not particularly in favour of caps personally. I think they do lead to a false sense of security, and insist on regular, repeated contact drills at full pace in training. It's a potentially dangerous collision sport, and they need to learn to mitigate against the dangers of those collisions. As a forward coach I also insist on ferocious, aggressive rucking from pretty early on....12's or 13's. They need to become "collision ready" and even thrive on the pain and adrenalin of competitive play. They need to learn that they can neither give, nor expect any quarter in securing the ball, and this subliminally encourages them towards a decent level of strength and fitness which does more to prevent/minimise injury than padding.

So, if your player wants to wear a cap then let them. They'll draw their own conclusion eventually, and then you'll see the junior testosterone fuelled peer pressure versus Mum's anxiety which will determine how long he wants to keep wearing it. 😀

ps. Anyone at the Old Coventrians tournament this weekend?

Another coach here (U10s). Probably 25% of our kids wear scrum caps and that's a mix of our better/fearless/apprehensive/less skilled kids. My lad refuses to wear one.

Kitwise, at this age I think the gumshield fit is the only important thing + keeping warm in the depths of winter (skins etc).

Technique for safe & confident tackling (low down, cheek to cheek etc) is key plus keeping it fun so they come back 😉

The first thing to accept is that your kid is going to get injured. No point denying it, no point trying to stop it. Its part of growing up playing contact sports (or climbing trees/being a kid).

I wore a cap for many years, had my ear torn off aged 10 and wore it afterwards to give me some confidence. And growing up playing league in the north with hailstones bouncing off my swede every Sunday morning for 3 months a year I was glad of a bit of warmth!

As to whether a "bit of neoprene will stop serious injuries", no it won't, but then again they're not getting hit by cars. Head clashes hurt, and a cap will certainly ensure you aren't any worse off than you could have been. I imagine a few bangs to the head without a cap will quickly put your son off playing, a cap may help keep him engaged.

Further to my post above, our lads have been playing contact for two full seasons now and thankfully we have had only a handful of head injuries and zero concussions.

So based on my experience (YMMV etc) I would say that with the ages I've coached a scrum cap is little benefit. Even the RFU state that scrum caps are only good for abrasion protection.

My children aren't old enough to play yet so I don't have any recent experience of children's rugby but I have played for nearly 3 decades and still enjoy the odd vets run out.

I've had a few concussions over the years (I forget exactly how many...) which used to be a bit of an occupational hazard if you were doing your job as a decent openside but the only season where I had more than 4 and had to end the season early on medical advice was the one in which I wore a scrum cap.

I don't think this is a coincidence - wearing a scrum cap can encourage poor technique and make it more likely that you'll lead with your head as you (wrongly) feel invincible, it also hurts the opposition less if they make contact with an elbow or knee; hopefully the latter's not an issue in mini rugby.

Taping will prevent cauliflower ears caused by rubbing if that's a concern although a direct blow to the ear will still cause swelling and ultimately the classic cauliflower if you continue to play.

My advice is that scrum caps may reduce minor injuries (cuts and bruises) but they encourage techniques that make major ones (concussion, neck injuries) more likely and should therefore be avoided at any age group.

def wear one, then when he's old enough to make up his own mind, he can chose not to

Amazing how many managed to play without getting injured. I had loads of concusions (explains a lot) as well as ankle and shoulder sprains and a few dislocated knee caps that led me to jack it in at uni. Played from mini's up as a flanker mostly. Taped my ears when I played 8. Sad thing is i can hardly cycle now I'm 41 and cannot run as in not 10 yards. Guess I'll not encorage my son to play.
dr from WRU on bbc website saying scrum caps dont help with concussion.

My son is 17 and plays wing/outside centre. He refuses to wear one but he does like his padded undershirt to give his torso protection.

I never wore any kind of protection at school. The nurse says I'm doing OK considering.

Blimey, still going! Thanks folks. It's been good to hear from a wide range of people with lots of practical experience. A very un-STW-like thread! 🙂

Even though I'm still tending towards no, for now, I will be a lot more open to what my young man thinks too...it may end up being a fashion/in with the crowd decision more than anything.

Forgot to mention gumshields. No shield, no play is our absolute rule. If you can afford a dentist-fitted one, then get one. Comfort, fit, and a snazzy design means they will keep wearing it, but make sure you help them to manage it...... insisting on showing it to you before and after every game, and keep it in its box. They don't look good or fit very well once they've been through a hot wash in shorts pockets....

will be getting a gum shield but that's it

I thought gum shields were standard from the word go? They were compulsory for us at school.

Lads with scrum caps got laughed at. Except the really big tank like lad who was a gentle giant but christ he would snap and punch bullies in the face with no notice! Good times!

Compression layers were unheard of until later years but they are one thing I would be getting my lad (or girl) to wear under a lighter weight jersey. Not the twin layer lead weight when wet things we used to have to wear.

One of my biggest 'regrets' of school was getting badly injured (neck) and then never going back in for the team.

Coach under 11s, eldest plays scrum half and wore it when he was starting out, it stops a multitude of little grazes especially knocks to the ears on cold days. He still wears his on freezing cold days for warmth more than anything.

Younger wears it now (U11) he plays hooker - old rules, 5 man scrums. My opinion is that while it doesn't protect against injury it does protect against the things that often have the kids coming off hurt and crying. From a coaches point of view this is a good thing and must increase the kids enjoyment and confidence.

Why are so many adament against shoulder pads? I've always got a lot of 'stingers' so I wouldn't consider playing without them.

If the pitch is muddy and gritty I wear a scrum hat (playing no 8) to stop the abrasian but I don't bother if pitch is OK. I have had one ear sringed and have slight cauliflower ear, so when scrummaging starts I would definitely encourage it.

Also, when we were kids my mum made us wear our gum shields in the house to get used to wearing them.

Amazing that we were able to play from 8-18 without scrum caps, padding armour and with tackling from the off. Even gum guards were an oddity when I started wearing one aged 9. I had the oissed ripped out of me for being the first to wear one.

When my younger son was playing tag, it was funny that the younger brothers who were used to full tackling their big brothers at home, often forget at school and simply tackled the oppo! The mayhem was hilarious!!! Even some of the sisters were happy tackling their brothers.

My daughter plays and has for the past few years.

I bought her a scrum cap but she tried it and decided to not wear it. She recently started playing at a higher level and thought it might give her confidence as the tackles are harder and she found it did.

Wife's view was you must wear it. My view was her choice but make sure you understand the consequences.

Played from age 7 through until about 30.

Was a prop (3-man scrums!) in minis, number 8 in midis & juniors, then when I started playing seniors, it was noticed that I was quick, so ended up playing wing for most of my senior career. As my formative years had been spent in the forwards, this was mostly in a "Run, Stevo, Run!" style...

Caps were unheard-of when I played minis, then become more popular with 2nd rows and hookers once we started playing full scrums. I wouldn't dream of buying one if I went back to playing now, unless I was playing 2nd row and wouldn't be fussed about getting one for my (hypothetical) kids either.

Still miss it. My Mrs has actually just started playing touch at our local club, but the guys only play full-contact 7s (we live in a small town in the Alps...) so I am currently resisting getting involved...

From personal experience of playing from 7 to 32 I'd not promote scrum caps for every player. Front 5 when the kids start playing scrums, otherwise no.

Gum shields OTOH from the time they start tackling. Compression vest and shorts for the winter months just because of muscle strains if the kids are get cold whilst waiting to get involved.

I'd also like to see a return to rugby boots, rather than football boots. There's not enough support in football slippers and no protection from another players studs. I used to have my brothers old football shin pads, the ones with the ankle protection, and cut the shin pads out. Too many times of having the scrum half stud me in the ruck, or the opposition scrum half treading on my ankles trying to get round the scrum.

Guess I'll not encorage my son to play.

Failed!

Most common rugby injury is an ankle sprain followed by separated shoulder

Proves I can't get anything right, I had a shoulder sprain and a separated ankle. Fractured a cheek bone, cracked my coccyx in half. It's bloody dangerous at outside centre I tell thee...

Good thread though. Kj01 is in his second season at 6.5, and I keep wondering about scrum caps, the little burgers are always running into each other.

Nice random resurrection Stevo! You could take on those frenchies, get Romain on your side, it'll be fine.

As we're here, Edward is loving rugby without a scrumcap. He doesn't see the need and we're happy with that.

Haha, it's that weird threads-in-the-ads thing that got me (what's going on with that?).

I need to keep telling myself that I am carrying far too many injuries and have way too much to lose from getting a bad one / angering an existing one...