I know it shouldn't matter but the term "The normal ambulance crew…" is some what irritating, it's a road Ambulance. Oh and that's not a female nurse, can't work out her grade though.

"The normal ambulance crew…" is some what irritating, it's a road Ambulance.

never heard that term before, you're getting too technical

Oof – bad one. Healing vibes to you.

Have to say, I wholeheartedly agree with TJ's view on the group's track-record though.

I wholeheartedly agree with TJ's view on the group's track-record though.

6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate…

he'd have had no injuries at all if he hadn't been wearing a helmet..

….i'm surprised SOMEONE hasn't mentioned this already

Nice tags. Perhaps the person tagging could actually read what I posted or is that too much to ask?

I did not at any point criticise the handling of this specific incident. I raised a general point about the use of mountain rescue and air ambulances. I also commented that the amount of rescues that the boggtotters seem to need appears excessive so asked if they were calling the emergancy services out when it was not needed.

I repeatedly said that the judgement can only be made on the ground at the time.

However because my view did not meet the consensus on here where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and rely on others I get absolutly flamed. Its much more fun to flame TJ that to consider any points I might make.

6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate…

I'd multiply that by the average number of riders per group too sfb, very low rate.

Edit, TJ you did seem to be very heavy handed in your criticism in your first few posts.

where people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and rely on others I get absolutly flamed.

wrong 1: James believed he was acting well within his capabilities
wrong 2: it was correct to call 999 in the circumstances
wrong 3: that wasn't a flaming 🙂

6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate…

And you reckon that's acceptable?? Let's say a person rides a bike 200 times a year over 20 years (a conservative estimate for an occasional commuter / weekend warrior) – that's 4k rides. At your attrition rate that would be 12 airlifts -for 1 person!

Everyone gets a free pass once – and that should be more than enough for most to reconsider their notions of personal responsibility while away from outside help. I know you ride as a group but, if anything, surely that should decrease the need for outside rescue?

Once is mortifying but probably just bad luck. Twice is careless, thrice is negligent – beyond that starts to sound disgraceful.

{edit} oh aye, good photo though {/edit}

beyond that starts to sound disgraceful

I'm content with that description and I'm not going to change my behaviour or leadership as a result

LuckyJim

I don't think your calculation is fair. A person is not going to make 200 rides into the wilderness where only a helicopter would reach. If they are commuting by bike, if they get hit by a car they will need an ambulance as I assume most commuters do so on roads. Also, you will have other groups who have never had to call out an air ambulance, just the law of averages. I have been on a Boggies ride and will happily do so again, except my leg is a bit broekd right now (and no, I didnt call an air ambulance 😀 )

Luckyjim usual road commutes aren't counted cos those would just be road ambulance jobs (most riders dont ride to work xc). So lets generously say two xc rides a week average, you're closer to boggies numbers in 20years and your still only calculating for 1 person. AFAIK boggies generally go out in fairly large groups so the callout rate is way down on 0.3%.

hardly a massive call out rate IMHO especially when you consider numbers, newbiness and the dangers of footpath riding.
Some people will do field first aid some will just call 999 what is the point arguing about this we all do what we think is best at the time no one is calling air ambulance for a scuffed knee are they?
FFS we ride MTB we have accidents we call for help they turn up we are grateful.

I visit A&E at least once a year as a result of MTB crashes but have never been in an ambulance since I was 8 and had polio…

6 calls in 1800-2000 rides is around a 0.3% call out rate

Considering the number of people who appear to turn out on the average Boggies ride, that would be more like 0.01% *per rider*.

And as the majority of MRT callouts in the Lakes are for casual walkers with sprained ankles / heart attacks / lost when it unexpectedly goes dark at night, at least Simon's lot are doing something different to earn the attention 😉

Its much more fun to flame TJ that to consider any points I might make.

Indeed. Maybe if you were less gratingly sanctimonious all the time?

been in an ambulance since I was 8 and had polio…

MTFU!

never heard that term before, you're getting too technical

Ah! Sorry.

Extreme sports eh? Phew.

Extreme sports eh? Phew.

extremely silly 🙂

cant believe this is still going on, jeez!

awesome pic by the way!

Mountain rescue and the air ambulance are not there to allow us to take risks in the countryside. They are there to pick up the pieces when people who have been acting responsibly have got themselves into trouble even though they have taken sensible precautions.

There you go. Fixed it etc etc. I've never yet met anyone from any MRT who would dream of pre-qualifying a rescue attempt. Remember to put money in the cans/tins when you see them chaps…

I am Sure we have all been there; in that second frame, you already know what is going to happen next…and sure enough, it does.

It hurts enough without the slashed face and the stretched neck so good luck to you, fella. I went OTB last week. feel silly for making such a fuss, now!

I come from a kayaking and mountaineering background where waiting for the emergency services instead of self-evacutaing would inevitably lead to death.

but we don't choose those activities or places. Were there to be no prospect of a timely rescue we would have to improvise for ourselves as best we could, at greater risk to the victim.

If you do not have the skills to assess, stabilise and evacuate walking wounded then perhaps it might be an idea to go and get those skills.

I think you're theoretically right, but I don't think I ever will, so we'll just have to muddle through.

I was knocked out in a fall from my bike 2 weeks ago, and had to be forcibly restrained from riding on while not fully conscious (I still have no memory of this), and even when I appeared to be OK, I subsequently lost another 5 minutes while riding and have no idea how I got across the narrow flag bridge over Austwick Beck, so presumably I could have easily fallen onto the rocks there too, and self extraction has its hazards.

Worth pointing out as well that I was staying over at a mate's in Lancaster (convenient given that's where I was flown to and treated!) and they said I was "out of it" on Saturday and "a fair bit better but still not fully with it" on Sunday so I definitely had minor concussion.

I went back to A&E on Sunday for a further check on my back and neck cos it was so painful (therefore no doubt wasting more of their valuable resources – how selfish I am…) Another thorough check and they decided it was no more than severe whiplash although the doctors said I was very lucky not to have broken my neck. SFB showed the paramedics the pictures on the back of his camera at the time and they were in no doubt at all that the helicopter was essential.

so I definitely had minor concussion.

yes, that evening you told me you hadn't been knocked out, but I heard you making that inchoate roaring groan characteristic of unconsciousness (very scary)