Car drivers – what is your problem?

What you saying? I don’t have a case? Car drivers are not cocks?

I don’t disagree that some are. However, by following up your rash generalisation with a claim that you regularly boot off door mirrors, in a thread where everyone’s going “all bikers are blah blah blah” is, well, it’s not very bright now, is it?

Don’t ever take up riding a powered bike chum, you’ll not live long.

Odd that, given that I’ve held both car and bike licenses for years, and here I am.

I’m trained to IAM standards as well as being driver 2 blue light trained

And yet you pulled out into the path of a motorcycle because someone in a van flashed you, and have to ask questions like “is filtering legal?” I call BS, sorry, that doesn’t add up.

I’ve never even heard the term filtering before now Cougar. Prob cos I don’t hold a bike licence and it’s never been something I’ve had to study..
Oh, the van was behind me, a car in the other lane slowed slightly to make a space for me to move into and flashed to draw my attention to it. Bs? If that’s what you think..

Fair enough then TJ.. I can see your (laboured) point.
Why do I get myself into debates with bighitters on here, I should know better by now..

TJ – you really do seem to have gone very quiet on providing the proof that I changed my story from the original so here you go – unfortunately I cannot find the original thread, but here are a couple of excerpts from subsequent threads where it was brought up again…

Perhaps you refer to the time I posted about the rider who overtook me going up a hill with a blind summit and sharp left bend whilst doing a wheelie on hatchmarkings* then having to drop it and swerve in right in front of me as a car headed around the bend (that one made my wife scream out loud it was so close).

POSTED 1 YEAR AGO[/b]

Ohh, and recently (as I posted on here) I had a bike overtake me going up a hill with unbroken white lines. The brow is unsighted and has a sharp left.

Did I tell you he was wheelie-ing as he did this?

Then a car came ’round the bend so he had to drop it quickly and swerve in right in front of my car.

(That is just the latest idiocy I have witnessed, there have been plenty more on this particular stretch of road (Skipton Road out of Harrogate).

POSTED 1 YEAR AGO

*I accept I was wrong in stating there were hatchmarkings on one post – it was just unbroken white lines.

A total and unreserved apology will do this time.

Did you see the bike? Did it appear from nowhere?

For it to be alongside as you made your manoeuvre then it must have been in your line of vision for a couple of seconds as it overtook the van and crossed the gap between the vehicles.

I am not attacking you – merely trying to get you to understand this is why two wheelers suffer from “smidsy” its because they are in places that the car driver does not expect and they they are a much smaller frontal area its easy to miss them.

My bet is the bike was in your field of view when you checked your mirrors but it was not the shape or size of a car nor in the place you would expect to see a car so it did not register.

There was some intersting research done on why this happens. Its got some connections with the way the brain processes signals.

YOu only perceive something as a threat when the angle it occupy in your field of view gets above a certain size. as a car is much wider this happens much further away. so that you may see a bike but your brain filters out he signal as noise.

althepal – Member

Fair enough then TJ.. I can see your (laboured) point.

sorry – crossed posts hence more labouring of the point

Fancy saying sorry to me then yet?

8)

TJ, I saw him over my shoulder after checking again (I’m a bit paranoid like that) and braked to avoid any collision.
Was that appropriate?
Just read your post above. Ta.

MF, I have no desire to go searching thru old threads. My memory is that you made other posts about being surprised by an overtaking bike and always your tone is hyterical – i think we are referring to different occasions. One of us has it wrong in their memory. I think you said it, you don’t. Thats as far as it goes.

TJ, were you there in the car with althepal or m_f? If not, how can you possibly comment on something when YOU WERN’T THERE??
You don’t seem to be able to accept that the motorcyclist’s were not riding defensively or safely and therefore in the wrong. To constantly point the finger of nowhere else but at the car driver really highlights your own blind spots when it come to this sort of thing.

MF, I have no desire to go searching thru old threads. My memory is that you made other posts about being surprised by an overtaking bike and always your tone is hyterical – i think we are referring to different occasions. One of us has it wrong in their memory. I think you said it, you don’t. Thats as far as it goes.

Well I just found evidence of what was said over a year ago and it directly contradicts what you accused me of earlier in this thread (ie, you claimed it was me that screamed and that I never mentioned wheelieing then accused me of changing my story). Go on, for once, be a man and admit you are wrong.

BIgyinn- do me a favour. at no point have I said the motorcyclists behaviour was acceptable.

as for althepal – there is a simple piece of logic. the bike must have been in his field of view for a couple of seconds.

He did say sorry to me…

That’s different althepal – we don’t particularly like each other and it must hurt someone like TJ to have to admit that he was very wrong.

MF – I believe that there was at least one other incident you posted about that you have forgotten. One of us has recollected wrongly. No proof is available.

I am quite happy to admit I am wrong where I have been shown to be.

Whether or not there are other times I have mentioned motorbikes isn’t really the point – you accused me of changing my story, not to have mentioned wheelies and to have not been concentrating and screaming out. As I have stated I never intentionally lie and for you to accuse me of that is insulting to me. I told the story originally and have discussed it again, all over a period of around 2 years (the original incident happened on our way back from a day out in Skipton in August 2009 so the original post was probably around that time) and I have now provided PROOF of what I have previously said.

On thinking further about it, there was one other occasion (on the same A59, about 2 miles up the road at the Otley Road crossroads) when a motorbike overtook a car waiting to turn right (in a right filter lane) that I have mentioned. And I *may* have discussed the time a girl came off her bike and ended up under my car (but I am not sure about that one) – anyway, that wasn’t dangerous riding, just an inexperienced young rider on a moped who clipped a car as she overtook it because she lost balance at low speeds – a simple accident.

I have also stated that I love bikes and have always wanted one – I have absolutely nothing against motorbikes but I have simply seen lots of evidence of dangerous riding. This is probably because I live on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales and some popular biker routes around the Dales and towards the Lakes so every dry and sunny day the roads are very busy with bikes.

TandemJeremy – Member
BIgyinn- do me a favour. at no point have I said the motorcyclists behaviour was acceptable.

I think you’re stuck in the run out groove tj. 😐

To get back to the OP. I notice that after all the fuss with the M4 bus lane (an example of the war on the motorist) it appears that car drivers were slowed down by an average of a massive 60 seconds. The man from the AA explained that actually removing it was : “It’s more of a psychological benefit – they feel better not seeing some traffic sailing past them”

& that’s also the reason why car drivers don’t like people on other forms of transport going past them.

“It’s more of a psychological benefit – they feel better not seeing some traffic sailing past them”

I read that as well. Could we balance that against the users of public transport, who’d have to be feeling pretty smug as they blat past an enormous traffic jam 🙂

MF – I have not accused you of lying. I have stated we have different recollections that cannot be reconciled. I do not beleive you to be lying

😆 this one still going

And 500 lines each for TJ and MF

I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.
I must not take the internet so seriously.

You can have the first 10 on me 🙂

TJ

Well MF if it was the same incident its a very different story NO wheelie mentioned for starters and no oncoming car or blind summit. Just a bike overtaking you at speeds well in excess of 100 mph and no mention of braking in front of you. so actually a different story. If its the same incident then you really do like to embellish a story to fit your rant of the day

Indirectly accusing me of lying and it is you that clearly misremembered what I originally said. Fair enough if you haven’t the balls to admit when you are wrong.

Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, 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flow – Member

Boring, etc

And yet you’re still here reading it.

MF –

MF – I have not accused you of lying. I have stated we have different recollections that cannot be reconciled. I do not believe you to be lying

If you lie without being certain if you’re lying, is it still lying?

I’ve never even heard the term filtering before now Cougar. Prob cos I don’t hold a bike licence and it’s never been something I’ve had to study..

It’s in the Highway Code, and it was there when I passed and that was like twenty years ago so it’s hardly new.

I don’t understand how you can be “trained to IAM standards” and emergency response trained and yet have never come across the term; and, terminology aside, have no idea whether it’s a legal manouvre or not.

I don’t understand how you can be IAM trained and make comments like:

I thought that kinda thing was only legal if someone was turning and there was a queue behind them..

and

(I) did nearly take one out when changing lane in slow moving motorway traffic. Checked mirrors, shoulder check then doing maybe 30 or more a biker (in full team stormtrooper uniform) whizzed past my door just missing my wing mirror.

Perhaps you could help me understand. What did this training entail?

Oh, the van was behind me, a car in the other lane slowed slightly to make a space for me to move into and flashed to draw my attention to it.

Ok. So a car flashed you out, you then assumed it was safe and moved into the space without looking properly. You’d been waiting ages, someone flashed and you thought “ah, finally!” and swung over. It’s easily done.

The biker could well have been filtering too fast. It’s hard for you to tell objectively in the split second “jesus, where did he come from” that you saw him as he passed, and it’s obviously impossible for us to ever know. If he was passing a van then he should’ve been prepared for you to change lanes without being able to see him and riding appropriately defensively. Clearly, he wasn’t. Conversely, you should’ve been aware that your rear visibility was reduced due to the van and been making extra checks throughout your manoeuvre accordingly. Vans are hard to see past, but motorways aren’t generally known for their corners. Clearly, you didn’t.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying all motorcyclists are saints. There’s plenty of nobbers out there giving the rest a bad name. I simply object to the default stance of “the biker was at fault because I didn’t see him, everyone knows that all bikers are reckless tossers,” and that’s irrespective of what they’re wearing.

Oddly, bikers like to wear bright clothing that offers a lot of protection for a reason. Can you think what that might be, hm?

Yet you are happy to throw wildly inaccurate accusations at me about what I have previously said on the subject and try to hide behind such an excuse without offering an apology or admitting you were entirely incorrect. My recollection is perfectly clear and accurate – yours was wrong and used to try to belittle my posts.

If you are happy not apologising then you have no spine.

But then most of us knew that already.

Page 7, cool.

Can I add while there is a pause.

That yes often bikers make strange/odd/illegal etc manoeuvres. But on the whole we are making those manoeuvers on purpose and with reason, whereas the average car/van driver seems to mostly on auto-pilot and not concentrating and/or looking.

Can’t blame them really, on the A40 this morning (and tbh most mornings) they were queued for over 5 miles (Hillingdon to Perivale) and beyond from what I could see.

And – I’m afraid that when you are on 2-wheels, it doesn’t matter who makes the error – we suffer.

For God’s sake, just read The Highway Code

MF – and to me my recollection is perfectly clear and accurate. *shrugs*

This cannot be reconciled.

However I am not throwing insults your way. I am just prepared to accept we remember this differently and to agree to differ.

Well I am prepared to accept you remembered things wholly incorrectly if that helps?

Well I am prepared to accept you remembered things wholly incorrectly if that helps

ridiculous internet battle but terrific quote 😆

I have no problem with filtering. I do it on my road bike and i know the bikers here at work do it but they do it at a not much faster than the traffics going speed and like me look out for cars that might just change lane. The problem is with this.

The biker could well have been filtering too fast

and they do suddenly come out of no where. I have been sitting in traffic looking in my mirrors and only saw the biker as he cut accross from lane 3 to 1. If in this instance i had been waiting to move then how long would you wait with nothing in your mirrors before moving. Bikers have to take reponsability for there lives as well as just bleating on about it being legal.

Bikers have to take reponsability for there lives as well as just bleating on about it being legal.

No arguments here.

I’ve no problem with letting bikers in or past, just don’t fall off in front of me or crash into me.

I like bikes, I don’t like how some are ridden but thats for them to realise what they’re doing, I think there should be more bikes ridden here in the UK.

Awwww. I’ve been working so hard I missed this thread 🙁

Nowt wrong with filtering though. Traffic slaying ability is at least 1/3 of the reason I bought a bike in the first place

Nowt wrong with generouse horn usage either, especially when filtering. IMO that’s proper use of horn, which means “I’m here” I think you’ll find

And to be fair, most non-bikers have no idea of what even a mid range 500 is capable of, which is why it surprises them cocooned in their cars.

I’ve made the offer before, but I’ll happily take anyone on a nice steady ride to demonstrate. 🙂

And to be fair, most non-bikers have no idea of what even a mid range 500 is capable of, which is why it surprises them cocooned in their cars.

What surprised me is that a 600 Bandit isn’t faster than my car.
Only a VW Corrado VR6, nothing super fast, but up the duel carriage way off a roundabout we were dead equal up to about 60, then it was bye bye Bandit.

The look on his face as we passed was absolutely priceless, even my mrs was laughing at him.

Edit: Bike are pretty much always slower than cars on proper roads with corners. Look at any Nurburgring video, and even people in average cars make motorbikes look like they’re mopeds.

Flow – your corrado is nothing like as fast as a bike. Forget it.

You could not keep up with a middleweight on any road.

seriously – get a grip adn look at the acceleration times. A commuter bike will do a sub 7 second 0-60 a sports bike under 4 seconds

Whats your corrado 0-60 time?