@BillOddie I accidentally rented an Escalade / Suburban in Vancouver for a road trip we did a few years ago. To my total astonishment over about 1500 miles it and its 5.7Litre barn-door-engineered V8 was more economical (27uk mpg) than our T5 and not that far behind the kodiaq. It was assembled in that uniquely American superficial way and somewhat dangerous should you attempt to negotiate any sort of corner. Oddly endearing though.

I have a Subaru Forrester which falls firmly into the SUV category. I love it, the extra height does give a feeling of being more aware as to whats coming up on the road or being able to see what other drivers are doing ahead.

I also have a Model S which is super low down in comparison and whilst it’s a beautiful drive, i do miss that extra visibility.

The extra few inches comes in handy too when on bad roads or double track. I don’t like the sound of the underside of my car scraping on the floor!

Give one you like the look of a try, you never know you may be turned.

IMO , it certainly outweighs the “what happens if you hit a pedestrian / bike / small vehicle” argument , as you are more likely to see them in the first place, and being a “bigger” vehicle, they should be able to see you easier themselves.
Probably jinx myself now, but i have managed not to hit any pedestrians / cycles in the last 30 odd years because…

a) I don’t drive like a w****r
b) I tend to look all around as I drive and try to anticipate what others are going to do.

What we need to do is even up the odds a bit by offering all pedestrians and cyclists an AR15 and about 10 hours training at age 17 on how to use a water pistol, upon which an allowance to purge anyone in a car whether the car driver consented to playing the game or not. Seems entirely proportionate to me given that’s basically the same power the current system gives people in cars.

On balance I’d definitely prefer an estate (although I’m not sure how my old Volvo 940 would stack up from a size/environmental impact point of view). I’ve also had a Forester (a great car) in the past that was actually smaller than the 940…
At the moment it is surprisingly difficult to actually order hybrid estates so I’ve ended up ordering a Mazda CX60 as a company car. I’m feeling a bit conflicted but for balance we also have a 20 year old Cooper S. I’ll also endeavour not to drive like a ****.

I was always wary of SUVs and 4x4s, but last month our car of 11 years died, and we were left hunting a new car ASAP and no transport to go to big places. Our choice was either a Fiesta, or a Kuga, in our budget and available then, we went Kuga as we do family trips to Scotland, Devon and elsewhere.

Have to say i love the Kuga now, i have a duff hip, to be replaced soon, right knee is also knackered, so the elevated position is nice, and i have it all the way down as well. It’s not as big as it looks when driving, plus it’s easy to drive, went from a VW Golf GTD to this and enjoying it more!

Yes, they are everywhere, yes there are loads who can’t drive properly, but that’s not an SUV thing, that’s a driver thing, every day i see people in picanto’s, micra’s, etc who just have no clue about spacial awareness for their vehicle, no real confidence at junctions/roundabouts/etc, and quite a few i’d say maybe shouldn’t be driving anymore.

that’ll be covered by the additional fuel duty you have paid

Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.

I’d like to see one that could pull my 2.5 ton boat

Let’s be honest here very few if any SUVs will have the towing capacity to do that legally (especially when you add a trailer)! And the ones that do probably aren’t even SUV’s anyway.

There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.

Yes this definitely.

Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.

you mean like VED / “Road Tax”?

One thing my mum mentioned when they got an SUV, night driving is way better.
It’s pretty uncomfortable in my old 944 and our old Astra, with all the laser beams that cars seem to have for headlights now.
The work transit connect is better. The transit custom I had was great. Almost never blinded by daft headlamps.

Yes, but tied to weight, not emissions. That way even if it’s an EV you’re paying for the impact of its creation and use.

The heavier it is, the more you pay. The scale should be exponential.

Exemptions for those with disabilities. Otherwise full rates for everyone even if you need it for work. Pass the cost onto your customers.

All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infrastructure only.

For ‘improves visibility’ read ‘blocks everyone else’s visibility, but I’m selfish so I don’t care’.

I believe that SUVs were invented in the US for tax reasons.

I dont like how the look, but different people like different things i guess.

Years ago, they were stupid because they were inefficient proper 4×4, and not designed with crash safety in mind. People jollying around in Range rovers pretending they were essex gangsters or farmers were the minority though.

Now a days is much more blurry. I really want to hate the rangerover evoque, but in reality its not that much bigger than a mini, availible in 2WD (and im not crawling around on the floor to identify which ones i dislike more), can do 47mpg. 5 star N Cap, pedestrian airbags and body catching bonnet as standard on all models.(Autoexpress, Nov 2022). THere isnt that much to hold against them, other than the bad attitude of an aspiring wAG

A hair dressers car but i can see why they like them.

Probably better on every metric (emmissions, safety, road wear and tear) than many fast estates, which you or I wouldnt bat an eyelid at (and would prefer to own)

I ride a bike everywhere, and im sure that makes loads of other road users think im a….

Yes, but tied to weight, not emissions. That way even if it’s an EV you’re paying for the impact of its creation and use.

The heavier it is, the more you pay. The scale should be exponential.

Exemptions for those with disabilities. Otherwise full rates for everyone even if you need it for work. Pass the cost onto your customers.

All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infrastructure only.

Lets play that out a little;

Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg

Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.

So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV… How about you just change it to “Just tax other people more than me” 🙄

Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg

Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.

So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV…

Because it weighs more….. Both 2WD, Mondeo probaby putting down more HP onto the road. whats the problem?
you proposing to tax SUVs just cause you dont like them?
I dont like them either, but theres no logic behind it.

One thing my mum mentioned when they got an SUV, night driving is way better.
It’s pretty uncomfortable in my old 944 and our old Astra, with all the laser beams that cars seem to have for headlights now.
The work transit connect is better. The transit custom I had was great. Almost never blinded by daft headlamps.

Trouble is, you’ve just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they’re now catching even more normal cars.

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Trouble is, you’ve just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they’re now catching even more normal cars.

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eh? How’s that work then, headlights aren’t horizontal? I assumed that the excess glare off some hid/led lights was due to slow response of the self levelling mechanism, or perhaps dirty lenses.

Indeed tinas, but it’s someone else’s problem, not theirs, so they don’t give a shit.

Pretty sure missaligned headlights isn’t exclusively an SUV problem (except on STW)….

Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg

Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.

Wrong comparison. Kuga is a C-segment car, equivalent to a Focus (also C-segment) not a Mondeo (D-segment = large family car)

Ford Focus Estate weight: 1,383kg

Although saying that, Mrs a11y’s 2017 Qashqai 1.5dCi – also C-segment and a Kuga rival/equivalent – is quoted as 1,400kg. Possibly explains why I average >50mpg every time I drive it for mixed driving. Fairly impressive mpg but I can’t help thinking how much more impressive mpg would the equivalent non-SUV hatchback do.

How’s that work then, headlights aren’t horizontal?

Easy, they start from a higher point so cause glare further into the distance. Compounded by people not knowing how to adjust them (not all cars have self levelling lights).

Let’s be honest here very few if any SUVs will have the towing capacity to do that legally (especially when you add a trailer)! And the ones that do probably aren’t even SUV’s anyway.

I am looking into something to tow 3+ton and I am amazed at how many suv / pickups can’t tow this. All these big (by UK standards) pickups and they are not to tow the max allowable.

Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg

Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.

So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV

My diesel Mondeo estate costs £30 per year tax

I have a toyota RAV4 coming and I cannot wait. 1st SUV.

it will be the ideal family car for us. The s max is getting on and is very thirsty. New s maxes no better really as not properly hybridised.

The rav4 is a plug in that toyota say can do 60miles to a charge (journalist I watched did 54, official Inc motorway is 46) I can get 3 kids in which we couldn’t comfortably do in an e class, so an SUV became the obvious choice

All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infrastructure only.

Spunked up the wall on vanity projects more likely

.

Trouble is, you’ve just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they’re now catching even more normal cars.

I’d say it’s more about the position of the driver, as to how badly dazzled you get.
On the way back from BPW the other day and it was mostly minis that seemed to be trying to melt the paint off my car with their lights. In an SUV or a Van, it’d be much less of an issue as I’d be sat higher up, maybe I should drive standing out the sunroof.

Problem is these days that the term SUV covers so many different sized cars, in most of the segments to the point where most arguments are redundant.

100%

A mokka is not a range rover. And thus every comparison using the category of SUV is almost meaningless without the exact models described and compared. And even then it’s personal choice.

I don’t like estates, simply too low – I like my legs to not be straight out like I’m in a wheel barrow.

We have a new Citroen EC4 EV job. It’s a hatch, it’s a SuV, it’s a crossover! I do hit my head on the grab rails and that’s annoying.

I love my kodiaq too, it’s massive and good for work kit lugging. 2065L seats down size beats the *majority* of estates too.

Its simple. They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need. The fact that they now account for almost half of new car sales is a travesty and failure of legislation by the government and gross negligence on behalf of the planet by the car industry. The majority of braindead consumers cant be trusted to make responsible decisions beyond their own vapid self interest.

Was given a brand new Sportage as a courtesy car last week, it was the naffest thing I’ve driven since the last time I reluctantly was given a rented SUV – it was so disgusting I looked in to its stats to find out why. It needs 180bhp to shift its considerable bulk (the smallest engine its specced with) at a sluggish pace that could otherwise be achieved with 100bhp in a sensibly sized car; did under 25mpg, and was about as involving and pleasurable to drive as a tumble drier. Rubbish visibility, awkward to park, just generally vulgar. Personally am a fan of fine motorcars, an interest which is slowly dwindling with the times- would rather drown in a pool of my own vomit than own anything close to a modern SUV.

***Edited***

Actually – I’m not going to bother with this pointless argument so deleted my comment

They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need.

Based upon what ?

We have a Mazda CX5 petrol
Does low 40s MPG, Comfy, lots of rooms for gear/bikes/stuff.
Known to be pretty reliable.

Yeah, we could have got a mazda estate. They have the same MPG figures and same CO2 emissions (give or take 1 G/Km). They aren’t as plentiful to find for sale second hand – and if you are anti SUV but buying brand new vehicles then you need to rethink your stance on how environmental that really is.

We also like the increased height for view, ground clearance and loading/unloading.

Could we get away with a 25yr old 1.0 petrol yaris? Yeah, probably. Along with 90% of other journeys and people could, even chucking it into a garage for every issue it would still work out cheaper than depreciation on a new supermini eco box.
But people like nice shiny new things, so reality is we aren’t all running around in reliable old cars. Consumerism innit.

Realistically I have a 25yr old CB500 I commute on, but I could do that on a 125 which would be more eco/planet saving. But the 500 is a nicer thing to be on, and I’m happy with that compromise.

It’s all down to personal preference, and all this nonsense about banning them/penalising them somehow is ridiculous, in my opinion.

They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need.

Don’t be daft.

So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV… How about you just change it to “Just tax other people more than me” 🙄

@scruff9252

I have an EV and a heavy 1.8t, 20y old BMW 3.0 petrol estate in which I drive maybe 2000miles a year. How is my comment in any way asking for other people to pay more TAX than me? My cars are heavy and don’t get used much and I’m saying we should tax based on weight, not use!

the smallest engine its specced with

There is a 113bhp mild hybrid available (1.6 CRDi ISG 2WD) Here

did under 25mpg

The 148bhp version you drove has combined figures of 42.2mpg so either they are lying, or you were driving uphill into a headwind with a full load in the wrong gear and with your foot down.

They shouldn’t be banned. Tax disincentives, especially those applied in single lump sums are substantially effective. Many people chose a car based at least partially on VED. It’s miniscule in the grand scheme, but its very visible and easily understandable. Scale that and you’ll see a massive difference in who choses to run a luxury car regardless of environmental damage or need.

EDIT my VED for my 3.0 Petrol BMW is £380 a year. It costs me 4p/mile just in VED Tax!

We have;
Xc90
V70
Peugeot Partner (Berlingo)

I’m covering all STW car of choice possibilities.

* They have 515k miles between them.

PCP–I bet if everyone had to pay ££££££ up front, or get a cash loan like olden times, no-one would be splashing the £40k+ on these monsters, they are a total menace on the roads, and with more of the SUVs being EVs it’s going to get worse as the things keep ballooning in size to swallow up those massive batteries and EVs are the direction of travel… 🙁

johndoh

The 148bhp version you drove has combined figures of 42.2mpg so either they are lying, or you were driving uphill into a headwind with a full load in the wrong gear and with your foot down.

“Car not achieving MPG from test conditions shocker, more at 11” 🙂

Honest John has the “1.6T GDI 174 AWD” at 28mpg, 25mpg is entirely believable given variation of traffic conditions.

This is why it should be a weight Tax – bigger battery – more tax. Leather interior – more tax. Full panoramic glass sunroof – more tax.

I too want ALL these things, but I’d be forced into deciding what’s best if I had to continually pay for them….

Car not achieving MPG from test conditions shocker, more at 11

Perhaps not achieving claimed figures but they are usually around the correct figures. I don’t accept that endoverend’s claim of 25mpg is the truth when the official figures have a low figure of circa 35mpg. Perhaps it was stated to suit their narrative?