Cameron kicks EU in the nuts – right decision?

40% of our trade is with the EU

Whats that got to do with anything?

We remain part of the EU and constitutionally bound by EU free trade agreements – this has nothing to do with the EU, its about a completley different “17 plus” fiscal pact.

Even better – the 17 plus have realised that their entire house of cards will fail, unless they get agreement from the UK to use the EU institutions! they need to come back to us with their tail between their legs, or ot all falls apart 🙂

So now Cameron holds the trump card – he can turn round and say “fine, we’ll let you use the EU institutions to police your new project, but only if you accept the guarantees which you rejected at the last meeting 😆

Sam Leith on Sky News this morning commenting on CallMeDave’s 2-point jump in the polls… “This has happened because the electorate quite like the idea that Cameron basically, went over to Europe and told them to shove it.” 😆

glitchy bump

Its so funny watching you guys here – “fog in channel – continent cut off”.

Its like Alice in wonderland

Oh Jeremy……joining the Euro has been a central plank of SNP policy for 10yrs, Salmond just performed a 180-pirouette live on national radio.

Eh? the SNP policy remains exactly as it always has been.

So – are you the red queen today?

I know who’s the mad hatter…

Eh? the SNP policy remains exactly as it always has been.

Here we go. TJ fingers in ears. “NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH!!!!!!!!”

so after all the bluff and nonsense what’s changed.
business continues as before, trade is not affected, its business as usual and a bunch of idiots in governments across europe and the Uk start making pointless threats and name calling

meanwhile the Euro drops in value and my holiday at christmas is now 10% cheaper than when I booked it yay, and lots of Euros for my pound for my Morzine trip. yay.

McBoo in fantasy land – a new pantomime. 🙂 Staring McBoo, teamhurtmore and as the red queen – zulu

I know you find an internationalist outward looking philosophy hard to unerstand.

SNP policy on the Euro has always been this. Its entirely consistent.

TJ
how can the SNP be outward looking when all they want to do is protect Scotland and pull up the draw bridge with the UK, they simply want to be away from England to be a little Scottish island, living on deluded dreams of oil revenue.

Sancho – do some reading on it. I ain’t going to get into a debate.

One key point is that at the moment Scotland has no voice in the EU. A future independent Scotland would have.

Why should we give the SNP the choice? Why not expel scotland from the union and see how well they’d cope as a little european vassel state? At a stroke we could rid ourselves of the scottish contamination of UK politcs!

TJ – you are a laugh and frankly a bit of an enigma. I can’t work out if your Internet persona is (to continue the pantomime theme) deliberately hammed-up for effect and to continue some lively debate (I guess more likely) or you are simply massively misguided and naive on these issues (I hope less likely). But you are getting in an awful mess here.

Go and read front page of FT, Guardian business section, Telgraph comments page (yes I know that will be hard) and read what is being written. Look at the political mess all these politicians are in because the population know that everyone got this weekend wrong and spectaculary so. Ask yourself why The Guardian is quoting the Tories overtaking Labour in the polls, ask yourself why Ed Balls Up is so spectacularly quiet (he shows some understanding here), ask yourself why Italy is paying record high rates to fund itself today. And then step back and think about things for just a moment.

I am not anti-Euro. On e contrary I appreciate the vital importance that Europe plays in our economic and social wellbeing. But I am angered by the politicians in ability to grasp what is happening her, the scaremongering stories, the lack of progress with each “summit to end all summits” and the absurdity that is a fixed exchange rate mechanism. So I find the little Englander perspective as unpalatable as the crap coming out from Barroso, Von Rumpey Pumpey etc.

ask yourself why Ed Balls Up is so spectacularly quiet (he shows some understanding here)

Because he is clueless.

One key point is that at the moment Scotland has no voice in the EU. A future independent Scotland would have.

No, a future “independant” Scotland would have the right to drop trou and grab its ankles whilst the ESM helps itself to the petty cash tin.

ask yourself why Ed Balls Up is so spectacularly quiet (he shows some understanding here)

Because he is clueless.

Not true….Balls isnt stupid, he doesnt want to get on the wrong side of the argument, knows where the public is on this.

Balls isn’t stupid, just inept.

Teamhurtmore – I just have a very different view to yours – from different place with a different set of values.

You seem to me to be rabidly anti EU in all forms and how you cannot see how poorly Cameron has played this I find funny.

He is completley isolated from large parts of his own party, from his coalition partners, from all otehr EU politicians, from the foreign office, from the EU commisiion. I have never seen concerted criticism from so many places of a politician before.

He is massivly weakened by this and has done long term damage to the UK

He had no need to veto, the veto will not do what he claims it would. All he has done is isolated the UK and reduced its influence to virtually zero. The foreign office and the UK representatives in Europe are frantically trying to build some bridges and undo the damage.

TJ, earlier…

a voice in europe, its like shouting down the LHC as much good it will do.

Christ on a ****ing bendybus Uncle Jezza!! A tartan one if you like. Does EVERYTHING revolve around bloody Scottish Independence? Right now the UK is a minor irritant/irrelevance to whats going on in the EU. What does that make an independent Scotland?

The one thing that has been mentioned repeatedly is that through all the talk of CMD using the veto, one thing isn’t being talked about.

The EU has had 8 major emergency summits so far this year. 8! And in amongst all this posturing and elaborate lunches, they have achieved the sum total of **** all!!! They have put precisely nothing/nowt/zip/nada in place that has done the slightest thing to defuse the financial apocalypse looming ever closer the horizon.

I’d like to raise a practical question too. Seeing as the 26 countries no longer constitute the actual ‘EU’, and are a new, seperate grouping of countries – where are they going to have their meetings?

I await the Sarkozy proposal for a new EU funded, £20billion, 26 member complex near Nice as the new venue. And in all honesty – would you be surprised?

Binners – Mcboo raised Scotland

TJ – thanks you have cleared it all up. It’s the pantomime dame, ham it up approach. I get it now. It helps to explain how you can completely miss my final point above – you can be pro-Europe and stil ant what is going on here. Indeed perhaps the only positive thing from this weekend is the fact that finally the EU bureaucrats and politicians may finally wake up from their Sleeping Beauty approach and actually do something meaningful. Whonwould have thought that DC would have played the part of the Prince – unintendedly of course!!!

Binners – Mcboo raised Scotland

Thats true. It’s the only thing he’s right on.

He pandered to the masses and the right wing and he has achieved some political success with his rhetoric and his stance but he has not achieved his goals

He now cannot prevent the 26 making rules to trump his line in the sand or adversely affect us – do you think they may have an axe to grind with us and wont try and retaliate?
How arsey he want to continue being in all honesty I dont know
This has more to do with politics [ pandering to euroseceptics and avoiding a referendum] than it does about economics.

He ha sa point though most folk here [ UK] hate Europe and will happily bite their nose of to spite their face [ like TJ allegedly would for Scottish Independence]
People are making emotive decisions here not rational ones.

He is completley isolated from large parts of his own party,

Definition of “large parts” being Ken Clarke and Heseltine and no-one else.

from his coalition partners, from all otehr EU politicians, from the foreign office, from the EU commisiion.

ALL other European politicians? LibDems, FCO and the EU commission are not to be trusted on matters Europe. So good.

I have never seen concerted criticism from so many places of a politician before.

Only if you disregard the views of the 60% of the population who support the veto.

The EU has had 8 major emergency summits so far this year. 8! And in amongst all this posturing and elaborate lunches, they have achieved the sum total of **** all!!! They have put precisely nothing/nowt/zip/nada in place that has done the slightest thing to defuse the financial apocalypse looming ever closer the horizon.

Cost estimates for those “emergency summits” and “elaborate lunches”, anyone?

A nice summary of the LibDem position in todays Herald

cots estimates, it depends?

I heard Subway do outside catering which can be quite good value. did they have sandwiches delivered?

C’tain – I was thinking the same watching the news clips! What is the collective noun for this mass of useless bureaucrats. A tragedy?

For the record, I’ve always been very pro EU. But whats going on in Brussels to me is not only an utter and complete shambles, but the very sparse an ultimately futile solutions being proposed are profoundly anti-democratic.

I’m genuinely mystified by your attitude to this TJ. Seriously. You always strike me as a firm advocate of democracy (hence your independence position) – yet what the EU is proposing is handing the real power in Europe to faceless, unelected and unaccountable technocrats in Brussels, who will effectively dictate government policy to what will essentially become provinces

2 Countries in Europe have had governments imposed on them. In Italy not one single member of the cabinet has ever stood for election.

Do you seriously tihnk this is a healthy state of affairs? And one we should be supporting. I bloody don’t!

Cost estimates for those “emergency summits” and “elaborate lunches”, anyone?

less than ferrying verity around the globe and less than Dave pays for consultants

How much influence do you think you have over the last few govts we have had Binners and how much of this influence has bee eroded? Did you want a condem alliance did you want to go to iraq ? Libya? Etc
As I have f all influence over the politicians within the UK you really cannot steal it from me .
I get your point but it is hardly like the uk does not do the same – See QUANGOS for example of unaccountable technocrats” we are only arguing about the location of these people and the size of the state that does it

We are hardly some superb example of how the govt always does what the people want or we would have the death penalty and not be in Europe as two easy examples to think off
I get your point but it is just as true here as there.

Since the summit and veto appears to have resolved the sum of bugger all i’m struggleing to see what all the fuss is about.

No one has got to grips with the fundemetal problem and instability of the Euro. It’s still borked.

Treaty or no treaty the outcome is the same. Unless the Germans actually allow full integration with the ECB as lender of last resort the whole currency is doomed. DOOOOMED I tell you 😡

I’m genuinely mystified by your attitude to this TJ. Seriously. You always strike me as a firm advocate of democracy

…..unless you are a Libyan, in which case you need to do what your Gadaffi masters say.

Junkyard – are you seriously comparing the present and recent governments with whats presently going on in Italy and Greece? 😯

We don’t like your government, so we’re installing this one. And there’s **** all you can do. Lots of love. Brussels

Junkyard – are you seriously comparing the present and recent governments with whats presently going on in Italy and Greece?

Maybe, just another one of those people arguing for a reduction in the role of governments and the size of the public sector. Reckon we will see a lot of that over the coming months.

At least many of these people are actually elected and answerable at an election. Contrast that with the people who “may” now be determining the power of state’s to control taxation and spending!???!!

See QUANGOS for example of unaccountable technocrats”

Totally overblown Daily Mail nonsense.