I guess you need to read Sybil

Just listened to CMD’s speech.
Bit of PR about his family history, to make himself “one of us”.
And a lot of attack on Labour’s record in power, but didn’t seem to notice that he himself had been PM for two and a half years.
More the speech of a man stuck in opposition to Labour than a genuine leader. At least a couple of years out of date. No ideas to put forward.

mefty – Member
I guess you need to read Sybil

Years ago in Economic and Social History course – ok not all of it!!. But there has to be something more than re-hashing Disraeli. Blimey, Marx and Engels must be turning in their graves.

But there has to be something more than re-hashing Disraeli

I doubt it even amounts to that although no doubt Milliband mi will have read it. I think it might disappear quietly, I think Cameron’s One notion will have proved to be a pretty effect torpedo.

We’re here because they spent too much and borrowed too much. How can the answer be more spending and more borrowing? I honestly think Labour haven’t learned a single thing.

When they were in office, their answer was always: Borrow more money.

Now they’re out of office it’s: Borrow more money.

Whatever the day, whatever the question, whatever the weather it’s: borrow more money.

Borrow, borrow, borrow.

Labour: the party of one notion: more borrowing. I sometimes wonder if they know anything about the real economy at all.

Did you hear what Ed Miliband said last week about taxes? He described a tax cut as the government writing people a cheque.

Ed… Let me explain to you how it works. When people earn money, it’s their money. Not the government’s money: their money.

Then, the government takes some of it away in tax. So, if we cut taxes, we’re not giving them money – we’re taking less of it away. OK?

😀

Nice goose stepping and saluting shot of CMD on the BBC live conference feed at 1138. Unfortunate.
Live feed

So you agree, another opposition speech against a Government from nearly 3 years ago?

Call-Me-Dave’s Conference speech should be worth watching/listening too today

PSA: if you haven’t already seen it, don’t expect too much.

Certainly the tax avoidance has been stepped up considerably

A brave, even revolutionary approach, certainly. Making thousands of HMRC staff redundant, in an attempt to achieve precisely that

they cannot force the banks to start lending.

Why not? We, the taxpayer, own most of them. And if they can’t, then maybe they should consider not giving them any more of the hundreds of billions they’ve gracelessly relieved us of so far

so three party conferences, three weeks where nothing was achieved in government.

great.

even i understand thats not gonna fix anything.

the lefties are throwing mud and spitting the word ‘tory’ like is poison, the tories are scratching their heads trying to find a solution that isnt there, or a spin to lighten the gloom. Why do we have that other yellow party at all?

*goes back to work*

Certainly the tax avoidance has been stepped up considerably

Proof?

Why do we have that other yellow party at all?

I don’t think that’s a question we’ll need to concern ourselves with for too much longer

so three party conferences, three weeks where nothing was achieved in government.

great.

even i understand thats not gonna fix anything.

the lefties are throwing mud and spitting the word ‘tory’ like is poison, the tories are scratching their heads trying to find a solution that isnt there, or a spin to lighten the gloom. Why do we have that other yellow party at all?

That’s one of the most astute political posts I’ve ever seen on here. Good work!

Certainly the tax avoidance has been stepped up considerably

I assume he means that actual tax avoidance has stepped up considerably, since they made redundant half the people who are supposed to check up on it.

Is there anything in this world more disturbing than a young conservative?

Only one thing I can think of….

He’s about to tuck into a baby there

Is there anything in this world more disturbing than a young conservative?

In fairness, you could say that about most of those attending the conferences, although those on show today seem to have mastered a particularly smug, smarmy scrubbed look.

I quite liked some of what CMD said today. Can’t see what the problem is with much needed welfare reform giving help to those who actually need it, state school plans (see his example of Peckham 12% GCSE pass rate before, now up to 90%). Are some people really saying there is nothing positive to what they are doing?

And a lot of attack on Labour’s record in power, but didn’t seem to notice that he himself had been PM for two and a half years.

I would almost agree with you there but then I remembered that I haven’t had a wage rise for over 3 years. He really should pull his finger out 😉

so you see we’re ****…..plain and simple, no one has got any ideas that are going to get us out of the shite quickly. There are no quick fixes.

*goes back to work/flogging a dead horse)

Can’t see what the problem is with much needed welfare reform giving help to those who actually need it

I don’t really think the very rich ‘really need’ more tax concessions though, do you? Because that’s the real goal behind his ‘reforms’.

Of course it is Mike and thanks for pointing it out.

were his speech writers looking accross the pond for help?

http://www.channel4.com/news/david-cameron-speech-sound-familiar

and in other news:

Companies that moved offshore under Labour are returning to the UK and will pay corporation tax:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/advertising-giant-wpp-plans-return-to-uk-8095515.html

30 tax evasion task forces launched:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/9103962/HMRC-launches-tax-evasion-task-force.html

Creative tax avoidance schemes are being investigated:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/9593444/Taxman-investigates-shipwreck-salvage-tax-break.html

“Mansions” held via company structures are now subject to an annual charge of £15K to £140K PLUS 7% or 15% purchase taxes:

http://www.tltsolicitors.com/resources/publications/private_business/uk_tax_changes_affecting_high_value_residential_property_mar_12

I find it quite strange that when the “rich” are scrabbling over themselves to unravel property ownership structures that were in place for the whole of the last government (including houses owned by Tony Blair) precisely because of the new punitive taxes / charges, it’s apparently the current government which is “soft” on taxing the rich and not the last lot that were quite happy to turn a blind eye to this.

Meanwhile, Ed Milliband can tell us all about rich “toffs in mansions” as his own £1.6m house is apparently not a mansion and doesn’t make him a millionaire, even though there’s £1.2m equity in the property and his currently annual salary is only £3k less than that of the PM.

Of course it is Mike and thanks for pointing it out.

You’re welcome. It just looked like you may have been somewhat misguided as to the true aims of the Tories, is all, and were fooled into thinking they are possibly the teeniest bit altruistic and philantthropic. Glad to be of help.

No worries fred. Glad to see your own altruistic bent still shines through.

Those experiencing the DLA ‘reforms’ are not happy with his speech:

“The thing that really gets me that I believe the only reason he is using Ivan today as a political football is that he knows disability has become one of the biggest issues,” she says.

“It’s so frustrating that this that this man can stand on stage and lie – downright lie – about protecting disabled people. We are faced with the biggest onslaught disabled people have ever faced.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/10/david-cameron-conference-speech-hypocrisy-compassionate-conservative-ivan_n_1953689.html?1349869766&utm_hp_ref=uk

There are myriad ways to pull us out of this, both short and long term, the trouble is the folk who know how to do it are not being asked.

Even the other lot were making more progress at keeping things turning and the debt not increasing than these eejiots, the simple fact is they don’t care as long as they are seen to be making the right noises for ‘the markets’ who have enough other train wrecks to focus on so we are being left to bumble on.

Fact is putting up VAT was a disaster, by putting the tax up they reduced the turnover, there are millions locked up in SIPs that Brown was going to permit to invest in domestic property but he baled at the last minute, allowing that to occur would boost the property market at no cost to the taxpayer and have the end result of reducing rents in the private sector.

That’s just two things that would turn things around for them and I wouldn’t charge them a couple of mil in consultancy fees for suggesting it.

Having seen first hand the impact on parents who lose young children through illness I think it says a lot about the integrity and ethics of the professional “campaigners” that they are willing to even suggest the PM’s reference to his own experience of disability and loss in his family isn’t as described.

So after housing benefit for under-25s is removed, and presumably the ‘deserving’ hard working young people move into the squalid council and privately let housing inhabited previously by the scroungers, where do the former scroungers/benefit claimants go? (I think I know the answer to this!)

What’s the difference between aspiration and greed?

What’s the difference between aspiration and greed?

Aspiration is for those who already have money and want more.

Greed is for those who have none and want some.

robdixon – Member
Having seen first hand the impact on parents who lose young children through illness I think it says a lot about the integrity and ethics of the professional “campaigners” that they are willing to even suggest the PM’s reference to his own experience of disability and loss in his family isn’t as described.

Let’s look at what his government and himself have done for disabled people:

Halving Support for disabled children,
Scrapping the “Youth Premium” that ensured independence for the most profoundly disabled children;
Scrapping Crisis Loans;
Cutting housing support for disabled people;
Cutting council budgets so hard that they cannot provide social care to some of the most vulnerable people in our communities;
Introducing PIP to replace DLA with the aim of cutting 500,000 vulnerable people from the figures without a single assessment;
Introducing unlimited, unpaid work for those with significant illnesses or disabilities;
Cutting all benefit support for sick and disabled people appealing their ESA decisions;
Lying to the public about Work Capability Assessments and failing to make them fit for purpose while disabled people suffer and die;
Encouraging hate crime by constantly feeding the media “scrounger” stories about the sick and disabled;
Closing Remploy factories, throwing over 1500 working disabled people on the scrapheap;
Exaggerating fraud rates and implying all sick and disabled people are “feckless, festering, stock”;
Lying about the levels of disability benefit fraud repeatedly and feeding politicised press releases to the media;
Cutting respite care despite promising you understood and would help;
Suggesting in PIP that a sick or disabled person can “bathe” if they can wash above the waist only;
Re-classifying paraplegics as “fully mobile” if they use their wheelchairs too well;
Blocking improvement in Atos assessments;

They’re all from “professional” disability campaigner (I think they fit better there than over “campaigner” as she doesn’t make a living from it, and definitely campaigns for disabled rights, but if you disagree let’s here your reasons) Sue Marsh, the person who the quote comes from. You can have a look at what she does here;

http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk

big dave today

Having seen first hand the impact on parents who lose young children through illness I think it says a lot about the integrity and ethics of the professional “campaigners” that they are willing to even suggest the PM’s reference to his own experience of disability and loss in his family isn’t as described.

Actions speak louder than words don’t they. How else are disabled people supposed to view him making their lives a misery whilst claiming to protect them, invoking the memory of his dead son in the process. It’s the very height of cynicism.

Bear in mind the fact that this speech will have been written by a team of spin doctors – I’m sure it’s all completely heartfelt though.

I know people first hand who’ve been affected by this, and it’s appalling what’s going on. But we have to pay for tax cuts for the rich somehow don’t we?

Are some people really saying there is nothing positive to what they are doing?

I don’t think making GCSEs etc less modular is a bad idea. That’s really about it for me.

Godwin on page3. Good work 🙄

My partner has worked extensively with disabled charities in recent years, and what’s happening on the ground, to most disadvanteged in our society is truly shocking! It’s utterly inhumane, in some instances. 90% cuts in budgets to organisations the disabled are absolutely dependent on? Being just one example.

So his crocodile tears about caring for the most disadvanteged don’t cut much ice here.

But hey ho… A private company I’d making good money makings people’s lives a misery, so alls well in the Tory world.

the man is a total disgrace.

im not going to begrudge him it, as i think that any parent in that situation deserves such support

but im sure multimillionaire cameron claimed benefits for his own sick child as he once complained about how complicated the forms were

and now his party leads a campaign of villifying benefit claimants

the sad thing is im not at all surprised

edit:

and heres a quote from him about it which is pretty sickening when you consider how brutal the new tests are

“And as someone who has actually filled out the form for Disability Living Allowance and had a child with cerebral palsy I know how long it takes to fill in that form. We’re going to have a proper medical test so that people who are disabled and who need that help get it more quickly.”

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=19097

You Guys really get off on this don’t you? Like CMD has a choice?

You don’t think he’s rather be doubling disabled benefits rather than halving them? He doesn’t have a choice.

Its like Gordon gave every disabled person a gold plated electric wheelchair and put the payments on tick…….when the money’s not there to make the payments, CMD has to send them back.

Who’s the Villain?

Rockape63 – Member

You Guys really get off on this don’t you? Like CMD has a choice?

Are you new here? 😆 Like the “choice” of Cameron/Osborne and the has not been debated to death about twice a week on this forum for the last eighteen months….

but isn’t half of the problem that there a lot of pseudo-disabled claimants mixed in with the genuine ones that the system was originally set up to support?

there have been many reports about the range of disabilities that now qualify for support that don’t quite fit the public understanding of a disability that prevents work (obesity, alcoholism, drug dependency amongst others), and equally many reports that tell us that a lot of long term claimants have withdrawn claims when asked to undergo an assessment.

if the current system is so tough, how come long term claimants who have been assessed by medics, council social workers etc can so easily fool the experts and fraudulently obtain money that should be going to be genuine claimants who are now apparently suffering? Anyone who saw “fake britain” last night will have seen the long term paralysed claimant (who wasn’t) and I think the value of benefits he had obtained very easily through fraud was in the region of £400K. Is it really possible to tighten the system without imposing new rules or tests when it’s so clear the current ones don’t work reliably?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jjvdp/Fake_Britain_Series_3_Episode_10/

I think the normal response is that who cares about abit of benefit fraud when there is so much tax avoidance. Typical Tories attacking the poorest in society but leaving their mates happy – or some such drivel.

EDIT: You may get you should stop reading the Daily Fail as well.