Buying a diesel van now – foolish?

Seems to be increasing talk about scrappage schemes and higher taxes etc for diesel-engines vehicles. I’m after buying a used van to convert as a camper but non-diesel options are very limited.

Is it daft to spend a fair chunk of time/money on a diesel vehicle now?

Nissan Elgrand

3.2 V6. Petrol and already mostly converted 😉

WTF are you waiting for !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-ELGRAND-RIDER-8-SEATER-LEATHER-SEATS-BIMTA-CERTIFICATE-PRESESENT-/232280186555?hash=item3614fa5ebb:g:eEMAAOSwiONYPfQ6

non-diesel options are very limited.

and will remain so for years/decades. This country relies on small diesels. It’ll not change any time soon.

Highly unlikely any car tax changes will be retrospective. You may fine yourself excluded from a few city centers in the near future however!

Nope weeksy not at all what I’m after!

Cheers scotroutes I guess so. I mean, there is also the actual environmental stuff to think about too. I’m not entirely convinced about scrappage schemes though. How much waste is involved in scrapping/building new vehicles, is that really all cancelled out by more efficient/less polluting vehicles.

I can’t see how the proposed changes for diesel cars can be transposed to vans. Petrol vans isn’t really a thing once you get to transit size. I’m also not aware of any petrol motorhomes/camper apart from maybe some random imports. Changing car drivers behaviour is one thing but vans are an entirely different level of change.

convert

I can’t see how the proposed changes for diesel cars can be transposed to vans. Petrol vans isn’t really I thing once you get to transit size.

I’d say we’re one generation of vans away from this no longer being the case.

Van tax system is different to cars so also can’t see it happening really, especially in the absence of petrol/hybrid vans in the immediate future. Emissions charges in citys is a different matter though

“I’m also not aware of any petrol motorhomes/camper apart from maybe some random imports.“

I was idly browsing motorhomes the other day, and spotted a vast American thing with an eight litre petrol V8. I did a mental shudder at what the fuel consumption must be.

That eBay Elgrand is the worst advert I’ve ever seen.

One wheel is different, the other might be inside! Where? The ashtray?

Shows signs of light use! That and one door is stoved in!

and will remain so for years/decades.

I’d say we’re one generation of vans away from this no longer being the case.

Ford will be trialling their Transit Custom PHEV in London this year with a view to selling them in 2019 if all goes well.

Also aren’t Mercedes supposed to be bringing out a new fully electric Sprinter sized van next year?

Ford will be trialling their Transit Custom PHEV in London this year with a view to selling them in 2019 if all goes well.
Also aren’t Mercedes supposed to be bringing out a new fully electric Sprinter sized van next year?

These are aimed for the foreseeable at the city transport market – folks that make their money moving stuff in small hops around built up conurbations where emissions charges will hit first and hardest. OP is talking about a campervan destined for the open road and many hundreds of miles of travelling in a sitting. Campervans are heavy lumps that tend to do few annual miles but when used do long trips – they will be the last vehicles on the road to become economically and functionally viable as electric.

Developments are moving fast, a year ago I was being shouted down on here for suggesting electric vehicles would soon be viable alternatives.

Now, in my little corner of the country everyone and their dog seems to be getting one, Leafs, Ioniqs, Zoes and Teslas everywhere.

Thats born out in the sales numbers with Diesels going off a cliff and Leccy rising.

All that said, even if we start seeing hybrid vans in the next couple of years its going to be five or ten before the are any volume in the second hand market.

Your choice will be either diesel or nothing…

FWIW the London tightening is only an increase in cost, so just a financial calculation between your current vehicle vs buying a Euro 6.

Nobody currently offers a VW T6 / Vivaro sized van with a petrol engine (in the UK). Closest you can get is a T6 Caravelle SWB with 150ps or 200ps 4-cyl turbo petrol. Cost for Caravelle is nuts though. Annoyingly VW offer both those engines in panel van / Kombi in LHD in continental Europe.

My sort of use (private use for leisure, generally short use with the occasional/annual European trip) is ideally suited to petrol or PHEV, so it’s frustrating to say the least.

But from manufacturer’s perspective there’s been no demand from 99.9% of typical van users for petrol power (to date…) so why would they bother.

Thanks folks. There’s a (very) few petrol/lpg transits around on eBay but that’s about it.

Sounds like I should just get on with it! Currently thinking a Fiat Ducato which is at least pretty fuel efficient for a big van.

You might find the occasional older VW T5 with the petrol V6 but IIRC they’re Caravelle spec only so not ideal for a conversion (although not impossible).

What’s your budget?

convert

Ford will be trialling their Transit Custom PHEV in London this year with a view to selling them in 2019 if all goes well.

These are aimed for the foreseeable at the city transport market – folks that make their money moving stuff in small hops around built up conurbations where emissions charges will hit first and hardest.

Campervans are heavy lumps that tend to do few annual miles but when used do long trips – they will be the last vehicles on the road to become economically and functionally viable as electric.
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The new Transit PHEV will apparently have a conventional engine combined with electric motors so range won’t be limited by battery. If you’re doing few annual miles then fuel costs would be negligible.

Obviously since the rest of the world has petrol vans and trucks the technology exists. It’s just not viable because of UK taxes. If there was a commercial tax rate for petrol similar to red diesel for agriculture you could run easily run a 3.5 litre V6 twin turbo ecoboost transit like them Americans over there.

I imagine it must be the fastest vehicle ever produced.

I can see hybrid diesel being a good option. Electric for heavy traffic. Derv for open road.

a11y – budget is probably 6-8 grand but I don’t fancy a T5 really. Want something big(ish) I can stand up in and potentially live in for extended periods.

I wouldn’t envisage spending a lot of time in cities with a camper van, kind of defeats the object. No?

You’ll have to prize my diesel from my cold dead hands, I play bangernomics, my last 3 cars have been mk4 Golfs with the legendary 1.9 tdi engine, they return 50+mpg, go like stink and rack up close to 300,000 miles before major stuff becomes terminal, look nice too and the last one cost me £700 with 4 new tyres and a years MOT…..find me a petrol equivalent and I’ll gladly make the swap.

I wouldn’t envisage spending a lot of time in cities with a camper van, kind of defeats the object. No?

depends. my folks do a lot of city breaks in their van. Bath, bristol, brighton (cities beginning with other letters too!) Camp at the site on the edge of the city, cycle or walk in for the day.

they’re not doing a lot of driving but you do have to arrive.

That’s the thing – they’re not actually driving in the city.

ScottChegg – Member
That eBay Elgrand is the worst advert I’ve ever seen.

One wheel is different, the other might be inside! Where? The ashtray?

Shows signs of light use! That and one door is stoved in!

If you were the sort of French car enthusiast that spends time on ebay.fr hunting down old Pugs and the like, you’d be used to 200,000km vehicles that look like they were target practice in a couple of wars being described as ‘tres bon etat’ …

back O/T though, my thought is that regardless of any new taxation I have no intention whatsoever owning another diesel car once my current one is no longer viable. I’ve intended to move back to petrol for a couple of years now for simple reasons of environmental responsibility. Actual change comes through many people making small personal changes etc.

For vans I can see the point of diesel, but for most car class vehicles it’s simply education and inertia. 40-50mpg isn’t special anymore.

My fleet manager at work has been looking into this as we’re due to get a new load of custom vans in the next two years that have to be ordered by August. Seeing as they’ll be used for city runs and 200 mile one-day journeys then getting the latest diesel engine is the only option. PHEV may be an option for city running in the next 3-5 years but the closest Mercedes and Ford can give us for chassis possibly being available is a long way away, too far to wait certainly. Hydrogen conversion is an option from Mercedes if we need to in 5 years time.

It’ll be a good 7-8 years or more before PHEV/electric becomes available on the resale market. Petrol vans need to start hitting fleets now before anything becomes available aftermarket for 2020. Diesel for the commercial market will be here for the next decade.

Buying a diesel car now? Not a good move, unless it’s a lease then you don’t have to shoulder the drop in residuals. A diesel camper/van though is really the only option. Maybe look at the possibility of an engine swap for a LPG converted petrol in the future if diesel gets taxed out of the system.

PHEV is great in certain situations – for those that have a driveway and/or garage.

Am I going to be penalised for owning a diesel because the Highways Agency won’t allow me to lay a drive, meaning that I have to park on the street?

Or are they going to provide charging stations when they implement parking meters outside of my home?

It’ll be a good 7-8 years or more before PHEV/electric becomes available on the resale market.

Sooner, surely, if Ford are selling theirs in 2 years which someone then leases for 2/3 years before it’s sold on. I’ll have one for sure, if they’re any good. Would’ve bought a petrol or PHEV van now if they were available!

If it’s any help the senior advisor who got the whole diesel thing wrong back in the day (and admitted as much) was on the radio this morning, seemingly the test criteria for heavier vehicles is vastly different to that of cars and actually involves real-world driving. Not sure if vans fall under the latter but would be worth finding out as it changes things somewhat.

Also, dispersal in open countryside is much greater (therefore less polluting) plus you’ll do seriously less mileage in a camper (unless you plan on using it daily).

Commercial leases tend to be for 5 years, add in that it’ll take a year or two for the volume of units to build up and you’re looking at 7 years minimum to get a decent amount of availability. Private sales will be very low so very few available as 3 year old buys. The earliest models to hit the second hand market will be the ex-rental vans from Enterprise etc as they tend to be only kept for 6-12 months and seeing as they can be used for any journey type then they’ll most likely go for diesels for the foreseeable future. Add in that all the sole traders who use vans daily will be hoovering up any second hand stock that does become available as a necessity for the first 4-5 years of the secondhand market and you’ll be hard-pressed to get an electric/PHEV model for biking/camper conversion duties for a while.

I’d love a small van as a bike carrier but as I live in a city and don’t want a diesel they are out of my options for a while. I’ve discussed this at length with my transport manager at work and he’s had lengthy talks with head office, city councils in our area and reps from the big manufacturers. The change to non-diesel can’t happen soon enough for my liking but it’s a while off for vans sadly. Next time you go for a drive look at the average age of the vans you see, they’ll mostly be 5+ years old. Decade old vans are a common site. It will take a long time to filter the latest tech down the chain.

milky1980

I’d love a small van as a bike carrier but as I live in a city and don’t want a diesel they are out of my options for a while.

Transit Connect Ecoboost?

I’m surprised Toyota haven’t made a hybrid Hiace based on Prius technology. Priuses are all over the place as taxis, and loads of vans are just driving around towns and cities. Seems a no brainer.

Thanks again peeps.

That’s the thing – they’re not actually driving in the city.

It’s not ideal but it my end up being my only vehicle so it would be good to be able to use it in cities without exorbitant costs. Might just encourage me to cycle more though! Not likely to be spending much time in London but if it spreads to other cities…

It’s not ideal but it my end up being my only vehicle so it would be good to be able to use it in cities without exorbitant costs. Might just encourage me to cycle more though! Not likely to be spending much time in London but if it spreads to other cities…

Before you embark on this check this out more thoroughly. The number of insurers prepared to take on self built campers is small. The number prepared to insure it if it is your only vehicle and especially if you plan to commute with it is even smaller. When I insured mine a few years ago when it was an only vehicle in the house I had to prove my home and work addresses were close enough that I would not commute in it before the broker could find a firm that would take me on.

Interesting, cheers convert. I don’t really ‘commute’ as such though as I’m self-employed and much of my work is done from ‘home’, but that might not help either!

Transit Connect Ecoboost?

Don’t have that kind of budget sadly 🙁 Think it’ll be a while before they drop down to £2-3k secondhand.

I think we are all going to get hit, and probably pretty hard… fuel duty rise alongside road tax for new vehicles is what I am expecting in the next budget.

I wouldn’t be buying anything diesel until I see if I am wrong! I have 18 months left on my Vito and am going to be looking hard at what the alternatives are when that comes up.

so now we are going to be charged to drive diesel vehicles into most major UK cities. So I need a new van, you can only get a transit van with diesel engines. We should have choices available in our purchases, so we can avoid this extortion. Can i buy a LPG version? – NO Can I buy an electric version? NO Can I buy a petrol engined one? – NO

Good mid thread rant, kudos.