Mr Trout

I live in Wilsden so not too far from you I think.

I have an old set of Fireball halogen lights (similar to Lumi’s) that need an upgrade if you have time?

Cheers Jason

if you wanted to diversify, I reckon there’d be a market for a dynamo usb charger (these smart phones are doing more and more, but the battery life isn’t there yet)

+1 re: fireballs.

Cheers Ian

Hi Chris (and Lipseal) …. Yep! Built a Troutie/CK/Hammond to run off an early Shimano dynohub …… great light, easy and cheap build, very reliable. Uses Martin’s circuit #7 and sends 400+ lumens OTF from 2 xp-g’s and 2 regina’s.

Agree with others, should be some money to be made with dynamo lights and AA powered lights. Until these cheap and cheerful lights from China become reliable and safe, I’m not interested in loadsa light for little dollars by buying from there! If I’m not alone in this view, that should leave an opening for the cottage light supplier.

Chris, I wish you well in your light building, whether you keep making and selling cracking complete lights for individuals or just keeping everyone else on the edge of their seats waiting to see your next creation / experiment! I hope you will continue to share your designs that inspire others here and elsewhere.

My two Teapot driven Troutie/CK/Hammond lights (parts supplied by you) are still going strong, powered by 8 x AA Eneloops …. not even tempted to go Li-ion, too happy with the performance of the current setup. So, thanks for showing us this great light build also.

Is their a market for fork leg mounted low lighting like Chav fog lights? Alternate qr mounting using magnets?

Please don’t stop I love my Troutelights!

What I would like though is a really good commuting light for very dark country lanes. Deep penetration for fast descents with side viability and a “dip switch” which I can get to without taking my hands off the bars. So when I’m going fast downhill and a car comes towards me, I can flick a switch and not blind them. Built in battery would be good as well.

An XML running at half power would need not much heatsinking would it? The smallest lighthead I built is a cylinder 17 mm accros and 24 long ( doe not contain the driver) – that had plenty of heatsking using a cylindrical finned sink for a 3 w cree

Small modules like that could be multiplied up for more output but would make a cracking commuter / dynamo light.

I think flexibilty and ability to respond tonew tech would be good. that gives you a USP

A bit bigger than yours TJ this one but the driver is inside 25 mm square x 50 mm long

needs a minimum of 3.5 volts and maximum of 4.2 v so a battery made up of AA`s would be good or just a single Li Ion .
driven at half power would be only slightly dimmer than a Magicshine bastid

Lots of nice comments guys Thanks

Cruzheckler
lights on the fork legs create a huge shadow from the tyre which is very annoying .

Jason if the fireballs are moddable quite willing to have a go if you are passing Silsden drop them in .

Plodtv I am nearly sure usb gizmos exist for the dyno hubs

Eh up troutie, congrats on being a grandad 🙂

For the last 3 years at this time of year you’ve told me your packing it in! What happens? You go and build another kick ass light that’s aleast a year ahead of the manufacterers. You’ll come up with something new don’t worry.
There will always be a market for your lights and service.

Cheers Troute, i’ll drop them off.

Can you send me an address to mugbooatgmaildotcom please 🙂

Having a LL and bastid; and having played with the Luminous lights and a few others, I’d say the gap in the market is for good, medium to low brightness all in one lights for commuting.
Most of my winter miles are commutes with mixture of on and off road.
I used the LL last winter which was good because it could do a week’s worth of commute and an evening ride on the one charge. It was a faff to have to attach the head unit and battery seperately though with cold, gloved hands in the pissing rain/snow outside the office.

Ideally there would be one at about 100 quid, probably a single XML with built in battery or AA as they can easily be charged/replaced at work, with a quick release.

I also seem to be the guy in the office that everyone asks about biking things. Last winter 3 people asked me what light they should buy for their commute. They either ended up buying a torch off the web or a 50 quid set of average lights with external battery. If there was something in that price range then it would sell bucket loads.

What I would like though is a really good commuting light for very dark country lanes. Deep penetration for fast descents with side viability and a “dip switch” which I can get to without taking my hands off the bars.

+1 – although what I’d really like is lights with proper lenses to give a beam pattern similar to car lights – i.e. focused down and to the left and with a sharp cut-off so you can use a lot of light without blinding oncoming traffic. It’d be very interesting to see how much brighter the lights would be just from putting the light only where you need it, and a few other things.

Maybe not your thing, but the other thing which I’ve still not seen done how I want it is a rear light. My ideal light: offensively bright, simultaneous flashing and continuous mode (i.e. never fully off), and recharges without taking it apart. The Light and Motion one comes close, but is let down by a silly mount.

Read through this thread last night and had a think. It is a bit tough really there are bigger outfits, placing mag adverts they are more established in the market making them hard to compete with. maybe you need to split your business in to a couple of areas, you mentioned importing and selling on far eastern products, certain others have already done this but I think you could manage a steady turnover of (minimal profit) business from this a commuter kit doesn’t need to be cutting edge more robust and reliable at a sensible price maybe, commuters are a bigger (and growing?) market.

Keep developing and selling your higher price point kit, there are people who will pay for function, output, low weight, etc but you are right there is plenty of competition and it is probably a smaller and quite seasonal market…

Haven’t read through all of this, but would have thought that the next step would be to go more mainstream and try to get yourself into some shops? seems like you have a good product that is well supported by people on here, word of mouth is always the best form of advertising.

I love my Liberator 3.0….and I know I’ll be back for more Troute products.
I would be gutted if you packed up. Would you not miss the garage tinkering?

What I need in a light:

About as much light as my fellow riders
A good beam pattern
Reasonably light weight
Low-faff mounting
Simple and convenient switching between modes (if needed)
Good run times
A price that doesn’t sting too much
Peace of mind in that if I break something it can be mended

and absolute top number 1 – RELIABILITY. That’s why we all got rid of those lovely HIDs isn’t it.

I think that’s all within your grasp, isn’t it Troutie? And should still make you top of most peoples’ list.

It would be a shame if you packed it in, my liberator is by far the best light I’ve ever owned or seen, although to be fair I’ve not seen the latest batches of powerfull lights from the big manufactures – but they can’t compare with Troutie on price & service.
I thought the liberator was more than enough light for me, but then Chris offered the double 1800 lumen kit & I had my old lupine eddison battery kicking around, so I built one of those for a helmet light – the light output on max from the Liberator & the 1800 combined is completley mad – but makes me grin insanely every time I use them both on full whack! The 1800 has a little more penetration than the liberator with a little less spread – but I found it can’t run full power for more than a couple of minutes – even at speed in the warmer weather (ambient temp of 16 deg) before throttling back to low, where as the liberator was barely warm.
Keep on tinkering Chris!

Troutie, I think you have a great business and great lights (and back up). If I could run a business, it would be run like yours. Don’t give up (at least until i buy one of those 3000 lumen beasts knocking around somewhere on this forum- when the dark comes back!!)

I have had the best fun out of my lumen liberator- quality tackle, no probs 2/3 times a week all over winter in the worst weather the pennines has to offer- snow, rain, mud….! Best light (1900 lumen!!!)I’ve had.

Still using it early doors on my roadie- it’s a hoot, it doesnt break down and it goes on for ever!

44 mph, pitch black downhill to ripponden- you can’t knock that!

price wasn’t an issue, when I bought it and isn’t now- I’d have another tomorrow- don’t give up when you have one of the best (legendary) products on the market- expand!

If you fancy a partner, give me a shout!

Cheers, Rocky

Aww gone all fuzzy inside 😳 from the nice comments .

Plenty of suggestions (Ta) to mull over and it isnt even summer yet so plenty of tinkering time before making any decisions

Smudge
Yep I know it is this time of year that I get a wanderlust Usually wanting to sell the house and move somewhere better .

Will certainly keep on tinkering in some sort of fashion .
I love doing the Diy kits ( dont know why ) Over 200 of the hammonds went out .
And about 50 of the double XMLs so far I must have triggered the tinkering gene in a few folks.

More light is fun. 3600 lumen on the DH tracks at Innerleithen was one of the best rides I’ve done. Illuminated with a LL and a luminous 601.

Hi Chris
any chance you could mail me your address again
I want to send you a couple of xml lights to test if thats ok with you.

If you could get an upgrade list together that may well get some attention from those with early LED lights.
I’d certainly consider getting my Lupine Wilma upgraded if its possble.

Chris – mail sent
Happy to measure as manyy lights as you want.

How about designing a housing that could hold one or two drop in modules (similar to a P60) that could be run off AAs?

Being able to easily swap to newer technology without having to have any electrical wiring knowledge would make future-proofing very simple.

Keep it up if you can, I love reading your threads and if I actually needed a serious light I’d buy one of yours without thinking twice tbh.
If it’s just the fun of the tech I reckon there’s enough takers on here to keep you going on small batch runs as and when you fancy it.

If you just want something to tinker with I’ll swap you a Dinotte 200L (I think, 200 lumen on AA batteries) with a knackered battery connector (PP3 style – works fine otherwise) for one of your DIY Lumi halogen conversion kits that I keep forgetting to send you some money for 😳 emails in the profile if you fancy it.

Like plodtv and some others have said a dynamo powered light with USB would be great. You could diversify and sell these to world touring cyclists as well. For them stuff needs to be reliable and well made, which will make them unwilling to use cheap Chinese stuff. (This is one of the reasons why Rohloffs are still selling pretty well to this market despite being twice the price of anything else. You could look at http://www.zzing.de/English_Zzing/ for a guy in Berlin doing similar stuff. He sells to quite a few cyclists all over the world.

I’m pretty convinced you could sell a couple of them to SJScycles or similar long distance cycle shops around the world if it’s a good product. If you would like to go down this route, you could post on one long distance cycling forums to ask what people would want.

Also AA powered stuff and DIY kits for the technically impaired/retarded would be great!

Personally, I like my bastids – you can’t get near them for twice the price. But they’re far from ideal. My ideal setup would be:

1) A small single unit for commuting. 7-800 lumen, runs on AA rechargers, good side visability. Good clamp design, so you can snap it on to any bar, anywhere.. ‘Flickable’ optics so you can swap between narrow beam for nunlit roads, broad beam for max visability under streetlights through the city.

2) The ability to run that unit described above on a dynamo on longer audax rides.

3) A smaller, lighter single LED 900lumen plus helmet mount MTB light. The basitd helmet mounted is better than old HID’s were, but still pretty chunky. The mount is a PITA too, compared with the old L&M solo logic helmet mount. I don’t like mtb lights on bars – they’re never pointing the right direction. I want serious firepower on my bonce.

I think the point I failed abismally to make the other day was that maybe if you want Trout lights to operate as a full time business, then maybe you need a diverse range of products; a mixture of Low/old but usable and robust technology (possibly partly/entirely far eastern in manufacture) for the commuter/leisure cyclist market, as well as your current higher price/function/technology products for which there is a significant (but not massive) market and also alot of competition… there that was more concise I think…

I do think you need some “Bread and Butter” products if you wan to make a go of it, stuff that will have steady, predictable sales and which you can keep a sensible reign on COGs. That’s really where all these UK Bastid re-sellers have caught their break, plenty of demand, steady orders, stock holding means they win on delivery times, and a good proportion customers who having had 12 months + out of their first one will probably take another whirl if the price isn’t too steep…

No point flogging DX/Bastid/Magicshine lights though, its a stuffed market, look for the next big (or indeed small) thing I reckon…

I would have bought one of your 1800 DIY kits, but I’ve gone and fixed my Bastid again, I may still before the summers out…

As I don’t possess the skill required to put together one of the diy kits I’d buy one of yours if I had the spare cash. I’d be interested in a light that was lower powered (900-1200 lm) but more reliable than the bastid.

Certainly a one mount for light and battery has a huge appeal as faffing with all the clips/straps is a pita with cold wet hands.

good luck and keep at it

Chris, After working through the decision making process on a better light which went DIY Hammond > custom job on my lupine > double XML DIY (Which I really enjoyed building) I think the gap in the market for lights targeted at people who own one from the big manufacturer but are not happy / it’s broken.

There is an affordable path for a person who has the battery and charger (Sorry Smudge) but wants a better light. For me is was a £95 upgrade to go from a 500 lm HID to a 1800 lm XML. The comments I have are usually, “What is that light?” which gets the response “It’s a Trout DIY” or “Is that a Trout light? – Yes it is” or “Can you turn it down or ride in front, you are casting a shadow!” 😀

So a number of lights that are either DIY or pre built that are compatible with the main players batteries (Including the bastid) to me looks like the way forward.

Hope this helps

Andy

Keep on Tinkering got to have something to do when its raining

Here is this years tinkering just testing different combinations of the new XMLs .

I paced it out from the building 100 good strides

Here are the lights from left to right

1 / single XML 2S Laura Lflex 3 amps
2 / double XML 2S Laura H6flex 3 amps
3 / triple XML 2S Laura H6flex 3 amps
4 / Triple xml 2S cute S H6flex 3 amps
5 / Triple XML 2S Rocket 3 H6flex 3 Amps
6 / double XML Laura + Double XPG Regina Hipflex 2.8 amps
7 / single XML Deft Aspherical Lflex 2 amps

Beamshots in the same order

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

I’ve got one of the first LL lights and it is the brightest one I have. I commute to work so feel I am justified in buying a new light every year to keep me safe through the winter. I’ve also got various Magicshine lights because they are cheap, I was curious and the rear light is still the brightest I’ve seen.
Also, over the years I have built up a collection of still working lights including L & M HID, Hope Vision 2 LED, Hope Vision 4 LED, L & M Seca 700, all of which are attached to different bikes. If you could list the lights you have upgraded on your site I would be tempted to upgrade come the autumn.
You should keep tinkering as how else would STWs stay ahead in the light race.

Hi Trout, sent you a couple of emails about that Bastid I sent you, any joy?

Don’t retire 😉

My 2p’s worth

reselling far east imports would be a mistake

your USP’s should be around, british build and support, flexible design, latest technology etc You should be competing against the “premium” brands Lumi, Hope, L&M, USE etc

someone commented above that you need to design a “bread and butter” range that creates the turnover and gets your light’s out there. base on AA and AAA technology, lots of people have the batteries and chargers already

you need to look at how your business cycle works for the year, stock may be expensive but next day delivery gets orders. Why not get a student to do this years base builds in the summer vacation?

Arguably you need to look hard at the AA idea as well as sourcing your own batteries, one profit margin (yours) in a light set is better than 2

why don’t you ditch the fins and get “TROUT” cut into the sides? It’s your brand, make sure it’s very visible

plenty of people will buy lightsets priced “right” (£120-150 all in seems to me a price point to aim at) that are quality pieces of kit, the Bastid’s are disposable therefore you need to be within 2x-3x price at most

additionally DIY kits could be relatively easy way of increasing turnover

the comment about optics is right as well, R&D is your strength, use it

also get your lights in early for the magazine tests

there is “risk” in investing, but I would say it’s limited, plenty of Bastid’s won’t restart next winter and their owners will need new lights and will want something that is more robust

looking forward to a well priced, high quality lightset storming the market for this winter 🙂

Hi Trout.
I followed your thread about the diy Hammond build with great interest. Seeing what a great job everybody was doing was encouraging but also very daunting for a complete novice. So I think more diy kits with well thought out instructions and most the things you need included in the kit to complete the build. Also rear lights with a good clamp would be a plus because I don’t know about anybody else but I’ve lost a number on many a good trail. I think it’s great to think you can buy things built by a man from his shed to such high standards. Keep it up please kits and lights like yours are what we all need to chase those winter blues away. 🙂

Nice constructive ideas Big and i’m sure Troutie will listen to them, its such a leap from doing it as a hobby as he is doing and stepping up a level seeing and compete with the big boys and imports (that are a fraction of the cost but with no real support and cheap internals)

What you do get with Troutie is basically next years light available this year. Custom led implants into old lights and loads of first hand knowledge of design of leds and optics with beam shots as shown above. An old light with the latest leds implanted inside, who else does that?

WHO else, offers this level of service light wise. A few even jump on his light threads not even started by him trying to promote their own lights.

So I say Troutie you would leave one hell of a gap in the UK market should you decide to quit, besides I wont let you !

its such a leap from doing it as a hobby

yes, which is why careful thought about his “startup” model is needed

my (obviously uneducated) view is that production isn’t his strength, R&D is. So use someone else’s time to do the repetitve work (whilst making sure quality is maintained) freeing him up to “run” the business. A suitably keen competent (and unfortunately for them , cheap) student would love a weekend job building up units based on Tout’s designs. Build the stock up now for winter 11/12 and launch a decent viral marketting campaign (already there arguably)

I think it will be worth going for it if he can get his price point’s right, get a decent pre winter stock level, and make it all add up (no point losing money obviously), get some half decent packaging (recycled cardbooard box printed appropriately, cheap to you eco friendly to the customer!) and convince the magazines that you are the next Lumicycle. As far as I can tell he has sold everything he’s made which is a great starting point.

I would also go and talk to the local business startup organisations (business link?), plenty of businesses are started on the back of grants from these sources. They can also help with getting the business plan sorted so you can understand the risks.

I personally think you have a viable business proposition but I’m just an idiot on an internet forum, go and get some advice from people who know how to get you off the ground.

…. and a DIY kit for the old HID models (Lumi, Trailtech, Hope) would be a good option as well, easy money for just packing up the right bits once you’ve sussed the swap out.

Troutie,

Why don’t you just carry on doing what you do now ??
You give us ideas, entertainment, products and services – on your own terms – and we love it. Your depth and spread of knowledge is highly regarded.

I suspect that you find that all quite rewarding, but probably not in money terms.
As soon as profit becomes a major aim, the whole perspective changes.
e.g. Risk, obligations, defending your knowledge and interests . . . .

Having said that it would be a pity if there is no way to realise a money benefit from your valuable knowledge, . . . having accidentally/incidentally built your own brand.

You probably know all this and the answer will find itself.

Reading the above, I can see that there are a huge range of suggestions and there does not appear to be a screamingly obvious answer.

Troutie

Hope you haven’t retired, I’m desperate to give you some of my hard earned money for a Trout Mini, I’ve sent an order and and an email but not heard from you yet, hopefully you’re just on holiday