Well that was a close call. Was just wheeling the new Trek outside to go for a quick spin and found that the handlebar is blocked from turning left more than about 8 degrees.
And correspondingly manages to turn right about 135 degrees!
I'm soooo lucky that I found it before riding off. Would have been very messy.
Utterly pisspooor effort from the bike shop. Really not impressed.
What's stopping it? Short cable or something physically hitting the frame?
I'm more concerned about who or what you're keeping in that cupboard that needs air holes...
Knock block not fitted right.....
That is poor
Cockeyed Knock-Block system?
Edit, beaten to this
Cockeyed Knock-Block system
They're in session for Mark Riley next week I think.
That is a little poor from LBS as you'd assume it's not their first knock-block they've ever sent out... that is not the best.
I'm curious, what's causing that then?
I’m curious, what’s causing that then?
Treks 'knock-block' system stops the fork legs from hitting the frame. It can be aligned incorrectly so you have move allowed movement on one side than the other.
Treks ‘knock-block’ system stops the fork legs from hitting the frame. It can be aligned incorrectly so you have move allowed movement on one side than the other.
Cheers @weeksy! Next question then, is it a genuine 'innovation' or just a gimmick?
Next question then, is it a genuine ‘innovation’ or just a gimmick?
I think on a low-bar-height xc bike it is a good idea or the shifter/brake levers will hit the top-tube in a crash. On a Slash, I would guess the bar is higher so that is not likely to happen, unless the top-tube is high + what weeksy said about the forks.
Edit, looking at the pics, clearly the shifters/brakes have missed the top tube turning the R + the forks have cleared the down tube, so it's not needed.
It's the fork legs Yak. They hit the frame on the underside. They certainly did without knock-block on my Fuel EX9.8 anyway. The top of the compression adjuster. It's also why Trek usually have a rubber protector under there.
People often fit a spacer on bottom of steerer which gives 0.5deg slacker head angle along with giving a bigger space for leeway on hitting the frame.
We should get together and introduce your Trek to my c.1974, Pashley Tourmaster Tandem. All it wants to do is turn left and I can't figure out why. I've checked the frame alignment as best I can. I've adjusted and serviced everything I can think of, especially the headset, but it's a constant fight to keep it in a straight line.
We could lash the two of them together, Ben Hur style, and see if we can go down a hill in a straight line. A short lived, but potentially exciting experiment!
Beagy 😉
At least you found out before a proper ride
Now you know about it, just find clockwise trails
Reminds me of the Trek I hired at Maydena. Just as I’m leaving the shop the guy I hired it from says “oh, which side do you like your brakes?” They were set up for a Canadian that had ridden it last, so he had to flip the levers. So glad I wasn’t getting off the minibus when I found out. It’s definitely not a place to have your brakes the wrong way around!
It’s the fork legs Yak. They hit the frame on the underside. They certainly did without knock-block on my Fuel EX9.8 anyway. The top of the compression adjuster. It’s also why Trek usually have a rubber protector under there.
cheers weeksy. Odd that they didn't shape downtube to allow for that instead. Sort of like a solution to a problem that didn't need to exist.
This is worrying, has your Trek been listening to too much of the National Conservative Confernce!
Looks green in the pic, but is it the special Blue Steel edition?
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I’m more concerned about who or what you’re keeping in that cupboard that needs air holes…
it's Hansel
Why can’t a company as big as Trek just design a frame that doesn’t need one? Most other companies have managed it
cheers weeksy. Odd that they didn’t shape downtube to allow for that instead. Sort of like a solution to a problem that didn’t need to exist.
Yup, it's somewhat bizarre.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52408728234_f43541d92d_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52408728234_f43541d92d_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2nRbr1E ]2022-10-06_01-57-11[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
That's mine with the spacer, still hits the rubber.. but MAY have missed the frame... maybe.
Do you ever actually need more than 30 degrees of bar twizzle when riding?
The whole point is that the down tube is straight ('straight shot') for a more rigid frame blah marketing blah. I have it on my ProCaliber which does havea slammed stem as well so everything would hit the frame. Loads of people complain about it but its never botheerd me and i quite like the asthetics of a straight down tube - it does limit your stem choice though - again doesn't bother me but does some
Do you ever actually need more than 30 degrees of bar twizzle when riding?
Mike Kazmeir on PB complained about it on testing... i never experienced any issues on required turning circle.
it’s Hansel
He's so hot right now, hence the holes.
Do you ever actually need more than 30 degrees of bar twizzle when riding?
Depends how many unicorns you plan to hit.
Had a frog bike like this. Tab that stopped the fork rotating too far, stopped by a corresponding tab on the lower headset cup I think. That cup was in wrong.
That's the French for ya
This is all well and good, but it doesn't answer IHN's concern about who or what is living in your cupboards.
Was this an LBS or posted ?
(To weeksy - if it was posted it's obviously not an L in the BS)
I don't think Trek post bikes to customers. All via LBS's for proper set up....
I bought mine from Sigma. It was posted perfectly set up, just had to attatch bars and pedals and chuck sealant in - which I forgot to do leaving me with an explosive puncture on my first ride. Lucky I had a tube
I’m more concerned about who or what you’re keeping in that cupboard that needs air holes…
This is all well and good, but it doesn’t answer IHN’s concern about who or what is living in your cupboards.
"Well I guess you're just going to have to wake him up now aren't you? .."
Knock block not fitted right…..
Yep. The arrow under the B of Block should be pointing to the line on the top tube.
is it a genuine ‘innovation’ or just a gimmick?
It's a complete n9nsense on this bike. The bar controls come nowhere near the top tube and the fork is nowhere near the down tube.
about who or what is living in your cupboards.
Who-ever, or what-ever, is in there, it's producing perfectly spherical 'eggs'. Makes you think... 😬
Anyone else reminded of Zoolander?
Now you know about it, just find clockwise trails
At least we have a name for the bike..... " Haggis"
This is worrying, has your Trek been listening to too much of the National Conservative Confernce!
"The Tory Haggis"
@cha****ng thats matte olive by the looks of it, the smoke blue is far black'er, and i'm glad who ever set mine up knew how the knock block worked :0) just had a first ride @ lunch time
@thegeneralist, i set the suspension up based on treks calculator, felt good, think i'll give another notch up on rebound.
820 bars are definately overkill for me and no worse than my occam on climbs for an extra kg
is it a genuine ‘innovation’ or just a gimmick?
I think it's a band-aid for a poorly designed frame. It's a bit like dual crown forks, if you crash and the bike lands on the front wheel, the forks hit the stop and all the force of the crash tries to rip the head tube out of the frame. Even minor incidents of dropping the bike will stress the area around the head tube so you'll get fatigue and it will eventually crack and fail. Ripping head tubes out of frames is common with dual crown forks, I've had two friends do it, never seen it happen with single crown forks. The Knock Block will massively increase the stresses on the head tube in a crash.
I like the knock block, but mainly for preventing the bike from flopping over when leaning against a tree etc. Makes no diff when riding the bike. I am a bit worried about the stresses it must place on the top of the head tube/top tube in a crash, but I have had a few biggies and the thing hasn't ripped itself out yet.
Trek warranty their frames for life. I know crash damage isn't generally covered but I think you would have a pretty good case if the damage was the result of the knock block tearing itself out of the frame, even if it was the result of a crash.
Anyone else reminded of Zoolander?
No, what makes you think of that?
Looks green in the pic, but is it the special Blue Steel edition?
it’s Hansel
it’s Hansel
He’s so hot right now, hence the holes.
😀
It doesn't need a nok-blok or whatever the proprietary crap is called with that many stem spacers!!!!!!!
I have to ask, was the bike mail order, with the bars turned when it arrived? I'm struggling to see how a shop could set it up that way as the knockblock is keyed to the spacers and stem, so they really shouldn't be able to set it up wrongly.
Ripping head tubes out of frames is common with dual crown forks, I’ve had two friends do it, never seen it happen with single crown forks.
Do you not ride with others or something ? Single crown or double. The frame doesn't care much. Seen both ripped off. Usually landing off big jumps mind. Rarely/nee never from crashing and bars spinning and tearing it off.
I have to ask, was the bike mail order, with the bars turned when it arrived? I’m struggling to see how a shop could set it up that way as the knockblock is keyed to the spacers and stem, so they really shouldn’t be able to set it up wrongly.
Yep, posted from Balfes Bikes in London.
Agree that the stem and three spacers are keyed and can indeed only fit one way ( well two if you count arse backward as an option!).
But the knockblock ringthing can fit in at least three orientations: correct, way too right, way too left. Can't be bothered googling again but iirc it has a groove that runs 170 degrees of a circle which the little tab thing locks into. But it also has another groove describing a different arc, and the tab was oriented in this groove instead.
Sorry, crap explanation,
Shockingly poor PDI, lucky it wasn't the older frame version, would've been a different story a few years ago. Thankfully Knockblock is no longer needed on current models.
I've heard of the naughty step before but not a naughty cupboard.
That's painful assembly fore sure.
FWIW on the current Slash, you can just ditch the Knock Block gubbins and install a compatible headset top cap. It's the first thing I did (well...I got it out of the box first...) when I bought mine.
@walleater do you have a link to the top cap you replaced the knock block one with? I've ground off the tabs on one of the spacers so I can use a normal stem but I'm getting quite a bit of creaking from the headset so wouldn't mind replacing the whole lot to see if that helps...
What did you do with the little tab that screws into the frame? I have to say my top bearing fit doesn't seem too precise, am wondering if that's where the creak is coming from.
@rstephenson, if you're after a spacer without the knockblock i may have one. I bought when i had the EX9.8 but never fitted. I think it was £20 but i'm happy for you to have it FoC.
Thanks Weeksy, is that the one with the little cinch bolt on it? I could give that a go if you don't need it anymore, cheers. My suspicion is that it won't cure the creak though, that's why I'm thinking of replacing the whole headset assembly. If the creak is happening as a result of poor bearing fit and so the bearing moves under load would people consider that a warranty issue? If I endo it creaks very loud and doesn't inspire much confidence! Pretty sure it's not the forks as they came off another bike and never has a squeak out of them. I have to say I'm not a fan of drop in bearings in a carbon frame.
Thanks Weeksy, is that the one with the little cinch bolt on it? I could give that a go if you don’t need it anymore, cheers.
I'll check mate and post up a pic if i can find it. it should be in 'headset' drawer...
how you finding the new bike @thegeneralist
ridden mine for a good 10 hours now and love it, so lively, boltby last weekend getting used to it,
it pedals extremely well uphill for a big travel rig, and I took it to the peaks and boulder fields around curber edge / froggat edge yesterday, very agile and pedals well over and between all the rock piles. a beats downhill
pmba this weekend another test
Never seen the knock block cause frame damage - and trek sell thousands of bikes with the system installed.
I suspect they've probably done a fair bit of testing on it and stress analysis!
how you finding the new bike
snodactually mine, its my son's. He loves it, and I'm inclined to agree. Really lively as you say.
The thing that surprises me is that it seems more lively and snappier than my Occam. Possibly even lighter, which is crazy. It may just be the XR5 tyres are faster than my Minnions.
The worry is that I'm sorely tempted to buy one myself. But that would be stupid as I have a bike.
Only ridden it on the local jumps park so far due to GCSE stress but hoping to find some gnar to do in the Lakes this weekend.
:0) @thegeneralist, i thought you had an occam ..
i also have an occam, bought as a stop gap (covid supply problems, and awaiting a payout, still waiting)
occam - fox factory 36 / XTR / hope brakes / carbon wheels circa 13KG, my trek 9.7 with the same wheels assegai/dhr must be around 14.5kg, but rides so much better.
my occam always felt at its limit for ardrock/moors lakes / bpw et al, I've had nothnig but problems with the back end, bearings around rear axle and mainstay and upper bearings, play and movement all over.
i demo'd the alu slash at bpw a few months ago when my main pivot bearing on the occam collapsed. loved it then.
got a great deal i couldnt pass up.
occam – fox factory 36 / XTR / hope brakes / carbon wheels circa 13KG,
Sounds lush
my trek 9.7 with the same wheels assegai/dhr must be around 14.5kg, but rides so much better.
No it doesn't, you're wrong.
my occam always felt at its limit for ardrock/moors lakes / bpw et al,
No it didn't.
I’ve had nothnig but problems with the back end, bearings around rear axle and mainstay and upper bearings, play and movement all over.
No you haven't.
i demo’d the alu slash at bpw a few months ago when my main pivot bearing on the occam collapsed. loved it then.
got a great deal i couldnt pass up.
I'm not listening. The Occam is amazing. Yours didn't fall apart. I don't need a new bike. I'm not listening.
I cannot hear you.😀
👋🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴
Goes off to check bank balance......
:0), lifes too short
I'm taking my orbea into a dealer next week, my regular mechanic says he's fed up of changing the bearings and he beleives the swing arm and rear axle all have play, "needs a new rear triangle" just need to change bearings on my microspline freehub to rule that out when i go see them.
Some years ago I made an impulse buy of an Intense 5.5 ‘custom build’ from a LBS. They’d put some Fox 36 forks on which
a)had too much travel for the frame warranty
b) The adjusters on top of the crown would have put a nasty dent in the down tube if I ever came off.
There were other issues with the build. Words were had, was messed around lots but eventually got a full refund.
I decapitated a lovely Kona Caldera by fitting some old old old-school Marzocchi Z3s with a top cap that dinged the downtube and caused a nice wee stress riser. Rode around for a while with a big hunk of rubber zip ties to the downtube (prototype knock-blok 😎) but no frame is immune to endlessly flat landing drops (as was the style at the time 😂).
Same thing looked likely to occur with the Bianchi that replaced it although it was a set of Rebas this time. Had a custom 15mm deep crown race machined for it, weighed a tonne!