Large. The actual facts/figures are with my contact who was fully involved at the management/director level at LR throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s.

He's in regular contact with many of the main characters in the uk motor industry at the time.

I may have been misled by his description of Jaguar as a 'loss making company since it's origin' since he's considering overall terms.

I'm not obsessed by this-just interested. I'm sure it has a future but you can't be so naive to consider that Tata weren't going to get LR on it's own! Why would Ford ditch them?

Facts? Look at the thread. It's full of facts!!

Anyway I'll wait out and consider what I'm going to do to my new bike when it finally arrives!!

Mike you're right what was I thinking ?
It was just a dream & now I've woken up.
Your not Mike as in Beasley are you ?

eMac, you've lost me there!! I'm Not mike Beasley for sure but I guess I shouldn't take that as a compliment!!

For what it's worth, "Ford ditched them" because it was probably the one area of their business that could make them any decent money at a time when they were having to pay out huge redundancy money in the states……..

Beasley was the MD when I worked there,we thought a lot of him 🙄

Well I agree with you with the Ford statement.

Im on my 3rd Landrover Discovery now. I have loved owning them. Part of the reason for weak sales in my view has been caused by the anti 4×4 lobby hysterically tagging these cars as anti-enviroment. There often seems to be a political need to "tag" sections of our society and blame them for our ills. The media is quick to oblige our politicians with this.

It keeps our focus on the "enemy" of society and off any shortcomings of our leaders….sorry im rambling!

What they miss out on is that they are not so bad on fuel if driven sensibly(people who by them dont buy this type of car for "motorsport"). Subaru Imprezas and Golf GTIs can use more fuel if driven in a "normal" way for that class of car. We get 25.6mpg from our disco. We use it for longer journeys especially with bikes! We don't use it for short town journeys, and have a small car for that and rail season tickets! I'm totally in agreement on the fuel tax issue. Road tax penalisation as is the current vogue does not encourage sensible car usage.

There is no other 4×4 with as much space & i can get 3 "big bikes" in the back without lowering the rear seat. The engine is a beautiful purring Jag v6 gem. I relly like it. I'll be very sad if LR goes down. Their product is excellent..

I can't believe you're still willing to argue the toss mikertroid …..

I'd put my man as more reliable and insightful than some government figure

So you're not prepared to believe Lord Tebbit then ? Norman Tebbit the great Conservative parliamentarian and darling of the Tory far right ? ! I have to say that comes something of a surprise given your political prejudice which you have amply betrayed with this comment : "never mind, so long as it rakes tax in for our Socialist government."

So it wasn't just Wikipedia which you weren't prepared to believe then, what you meant to say, was that you weren't prepared to believe any source which didn't fit in with your own preconceived opinions.

But wait …………here you say : "It appears that it HAS at times made a profit, particularly in the early '80s" ! You really are all over the place mate, so let me see if I can help you. Perhaps your mysterious and unidentified source meant :

"Jaguar has never made a profit. Ever……….. Since it was privatised and sold to the Yanks. Although it had been making £1 million a week profit when it was still nationalised"

BTW, if you still think that the Tory government was blatantly falsifying the figures before privatisation (and we're talking pretty large sums here), it's probably fair to point out that Ford could have undoubtedly sued.

ernie, you clearly can't/don't read; I'm going to get my info checked. I think I may have taken the statement 'Jaguar have never been a profit making manufacturer ever' too literally. They may have, but for less than the majority of times,

Your comments about Lord Tebbit confuse me. The government that we're currently suffering is socialist, Self interested and deceitful. The Conservatives are the latter two! My political views are independent of who I'd trust as a source. My friend is apolitical to this matter. BUT:

In my experience ANYTHING issued from HMG is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Ford bought Jag AND LR. LR making a profit as a sweetener.

I think you agree with me on all points here. Apart from the fact that I don't trust any govt figure, I work for them for christ's sake!

Your comments about Lord Tebbit confuse me. The government that we're currently suffering is socialist

Here then lies the problem…………………….you are indeed confused.

.

………… and I still don't understand how you ever came to believe that Jaguar had never made a profit – they've been going since 1922 ! How do you think they managed to afford to buy Daimler ? !

ernie I think you're more confused actually!!

You appear surprised that I don't trust Tebbit, or the socialist Brown Govt. They're both as bad as each other. Tebbit maybe less so!!!

Okay: from my brief websearch (applying usual mistrust factors) Jag have made profit from 1945-1956 (brilliant) and in early 80's (again fantastic). I think that given their current lineup they will do will in the '10s too.

I'm guessing my statement as 'never profit making' has been coloured by an industry view of 'Jaguar has never been profitable since it's outset'. Obviously at times it MUST have made a profit to have justified certain purchases.

BUT in the overall scheme of things, Jag hasn't been a profit making car company.

That fair?

hey are not so bad on fuel if driven sensibly…

We get 25.6mpg from our disco.

Even if the competition is just as bad, that's pretty shit though, isn't it?

Hysterical pro environment point made.

Dr Dolittle,

But you don't have to scrap them so soon.

CO2 goes form cradle to grave. That's why the CO2 figures given are so misleading plus they test on MAX weight for a given vehicle, not what it does in the real world. But it makes money for greedy Gordon.

Anyway, enough for now: safe passage/happy landings wherever you are! Adios!!

ernie I think you're more confused actually!!

Strangely enough, I don't think I am.

Am I surprised that you don't trust Tebbit ? Well I'm certainly surprised that you are being so stubborn. I'm sure that if we had found a quote from Tebbit saying that Jaguar had not made any profit, you would have been very happy to believe it/trust him.

You now think that Jaguar did not make a profit between 1922 and 1945 ? Are you under the impression that companies are some sort of philanthropic ventures ? And you are suggesting that I'm confused, right ?

ernie, I find your references to Tebbit amusing. You seem to think I'm a Tory who believes Tory hype. If that's because I despise what Nu Labour have done, it probably makes the entire nation tory!

You seem to think I'm a Tory who believes Tory hype.

What I do think, is that you are very gullible. Evident by the fact you were quite prepared to believe this statement, quote :

"Jaguar has never made a profit. Ever."

Jaguar have been making cars for 87 years. The suggestion that they have never made a profit, is clearly quite absurd.

In my experience, people who reject self-evident truths, do so, because they do not fit neatly into their believe systems – a bit like creationists.

These people also tend to move the goalposts in whichever way suits them, as you clearly have. You initially ridicule my reference to a wiki article with the clear suggestion that you are prepared to accept a 'more reliable' source.

So I provide you with a parliamentary written answer by Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, this you of course, reject out of hand. Obviously it's a bit like arguing with a creationist, a futile and pointless exercise, because whatever I throw at you, you will find a reason for not accepting it.

Do I think you are a Tory ? Well I don't know whether you are or not……….although I suspect that you probably are.

Certainly the evidence that you are gullible and rather confused, is somewhat stronger though.

ernie, you've misquoted his statement!! That was my INTERPRETATION of a different quote.

I'm neither gullible nor confused, but thanks for your concern.

ernie, you've misquoted his statement!!

.

No, I haven't "misquoted" anything. I quoted you :

mikertroid – Member

Jaguar has never made a profit. Ever.

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post

Clearly you believed that statement, otherwise you would never have posted it. What your mysterious source actually said, is completely irrelevant.

.

And btw, I'm not unduly concerned about your apparent gullibility and confusion. If I went around worrying about other people being gullible and confused, I would be indeed be an unhappy bunny.

hey are not so bad on fuel if driven sensibly…

We get 25.6mpg from our disco.

Even if the competition is just as bad, that's pretty shit though, isn't it?

Hysterical pro environment point made.

JLR also do a fair bit of carbon footprint off setting too…

😆

JLR also do a fair bit of carbon footprint off setting too…

😆

Jags appeal/customers will never be ones who drive small petrol or diesel cars or electrical or engines that are needed in the future. In the distant distant future when electric engines are viable yes a typical Jag customer will want a fast/large saloon powered by a powerful electric engine. In the meantime they'll lose shedloads of money.

IMO (from a customer perspective)- make Jaguar a very small/niche brand and keep LR as a going concern its existing size. The diesels in the current jags along with a rationalised petrol range make alot more sense.

Just chatted to my man. Reckons that the management at Jag are to blame for the profitability; engineering spot on. Particularly the x type which inherited the superb engineering of the Mondeo. Apparently the whole thing was very badly managed by Jag pr.

Ernie, he knows Mike Beasley; a 'bit of trouble' but was more Nick Schaale's era.