I’ve just started to plot a 600km 45,000 feet, 58 hour loop in the Pyrenees. It takes in all the big ones, but I’ve never looked at averages before.
I’m trying to maximise the days riding and work out where we can sleep on the two nights.

You imply you have a set time to do it in – 4 days = 150km per day? (Or 14.5 hours, according to your average)

Doable? Probably.

Fun? Not for me, but then I like 60-70 miles days with a decent lunch break/siesta, time to stop off at whatever I see that looks interesting, and a meal & beers out after.

Some of those climbs are endless (or feel like it) steep (steeper than you are used to and think they ought to be) and the road is long and very winding.

You will love it..

Having said that I’ve done a lot of riding around Verese and Lombardia regions and done the stelvio, passo gavia and monte Giselle a number of times. We (my whippet mate and I) used to plan in a weeks riding schedule 150max k’s for long steady climb route loops and 100ks for steeper climbing routes per day. Set off at 9am and see where that got us, normally in to the hotel by 3-4pm which gives a decent time to rest up for the following day(s)
Hard to say what your average speed will be, 9-12ks up the steep climbs through to 60ks + down the long descents off the back of them so that would equate to 28-30ks ave, but you will not achieve that, even I would die a death on a couple of multiple ramps up..

Proper good riding over there, you will love it and you will love dying 7 deaths on the way up, but boy will you feel elated when you get up top.

Have fun, post pics 😀

FWIW we did the Raid Pyrenees route in June, which is west coast to east coast over the big climbs on the way. We did 750km in 5 days with 43,000ft of climbing. First 4 days were over 150km, with a shorter final day. We were always in the hotel by 4pm ready for food and beer!

We were fully supported though, although we also stopped for proper sit down lunches too.

The group was reasonably mixed, all reasonably fit, but no cat 1 racers or anything.

Don’t know if that helps at all?

Yes it has to be done in 58 hours.
It isn’t supported and we have to route find.
tlr that helps a bit.

Hard to say what your average speed will be, 9-12ks up the steep climbs through to 60ks + down the long descents off the back of them so that would equate to 28-30ks ave, but you will not achieve that, even I would die a death on a couple of multiple ramps up..

This maths is far off if you climb 10 K/h and descent 60k/h your average will be around 17 k/h. To note also that 60 average on the downhills is not give to many a slow corner some traffic really bites into your average.

I would work on your sustainable climbing speed in meters/feet per hour. You don’t need to know the gradients just the altitude differences divide by climbing speed(VAM) and you have your hours of climbing take your speed for the flats 20? and take more or les 1.5 times your speed for the flats as average for downhills you just need altitude gain and a rough mileage for flats and downhills.

For climbing speed test yourself on a climb at least half an hour long preferably an hour your best effort for example 1000 meters an hour(this is quite good) you use as a base and then take 70% or so of that for your calculations as that is what will be realistic to sustain over multiple climbs multiple days.

45000 feet is lets say 15.000 meters if you are a 1.000 meter guy taken at 750 you will be climbing for 20 hours.

A rough calculation for your 58 hours basic assumption 250k climbing 250k down and 100k flat/rolling hills etc.

Say you ride 16 K hour on the flats(just over 6 hours) that 10 miles an hour descent at 15 miles an hour(ten and a half hours descending) then you need to climb 45 K feet in the remaining 41 hours thats about 1100 feet an hour roughly 335 meters an hour(which is not that much) though this is meaning you are riding al 58 hours its all the tinkering and stopping eating etc that consumes a lot of time. Faster or doing more distance is more a bout less stopping then going fast in long distance rides like this one

The 58 hours includes stoppage, sleep food etc.

This may be of use:
http://www.strava.com/activities/72295769
http://www.strava.com/activities/72295797 (I bonked like never before on this ride, so speed dropped big time on the climb home)
http://www.strava.com/activities/72295767
http://www.strava.com/activities/72295804
http://www.strava.com/activities/72356647

Most people say a 20kph average is respectable if you’re taking in HC climbs.

Most people say a 20kph average is respectable if you’re taking in HC climbs.

I’ve just found something, 117km 7000 feet at just over 5 hours. That does include one HC climb. so almost bob on 20kph, cheers.

Now to look at your data.

Ok Oldgit so I rewoked it on 36 hours riding time thats 12 hours say in a 15 hour day that gives you three hours for lunch and shorter stops and a 9 hour sleep fot two days and a 12 hour pull the last day.

Say you do 26k/h a big 16 miles for rolling stuff and descent around 40k/h then you would need to be climbing the stuff at 1730 feet a big 500 meters an hour just to give you an idea for three 12 hour days.

If you want to do 10 hour days same speed assumptions downhill and flats you will need to climb at 2250 feet an hour or close to 700 meters an hour which is already quite a respectable climbing speed for mere mortals.

as per higher 20 average is already quite a respecatable speed(second example

Well done maths boy 🙄

I took those figures from actually riding them there hills.

🙄

Not doubting your speeds, 10k up the pass and 60 down it seem quite reasonable. I’ve done similar.

It is true though that doing 10k up one side and 60k down the other averages 17kph (assuming same distance climb and descent), not anywhere near 28kph. You go at the slower speed for so much longer that the average is lower than you’d think.

More interesting is why the 58 hour limit?

There was a similar thing mentioned on here a couple of years ago about 46 hour adventures IIRC

Oldgit would you post your route please when worked out….intrigued 😀

20kph sounds about right, it’s around where my end of trip averages are from a few long Alpine rides, shorter-day credit card tours and longer multi-day rides, all very similar pace in the end. Always seemed slow to me compared to local rides at similar effort levels but you’re climbing for a long time out there. (edit to add, that’s not meant to be WW either, I’m no racer/Mike Cotty!)
58hrs or keeping to an average over 600km sounds like a challenge but a lot of it is about minimising faff time among a group and being really efficient when you do need to stop.

http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=cskofwhnjfuyqgon

The route ‘should’ start south of Lourdes, but we are trying to get permission to start from Luchon as we have a base there and it would help with faffage, and it would mean a clean finish.
TBH if we can’t get the go ahead we might just do it our way anyway.
The map above is a very rough guide, I have now until early September to source and map the detail.
Initial plans are based on 230km 230km and 140km. The last day includes Tourmalet, Azzet and Peyresourde.

My stats from the Quebrantahuesos last year – I was in pretty good shape, ymmv.

200km distance
3500m climbing
7:42 total time
Avg speed: 24 kph

That was only the one day – I certainly couldn’t keep that up for much longer. For the distances you’re looking at I’d be thinking of a sub 20kph average, probably closer to 15-17.

Edit: just seen the route, think the Quebrantahuesos takes in some of that – it starts in Sabiñánigo and crosses over into France. I’m doing it again this year, it’s a lovely area for riding!

Jeases Oldgit not sure how accurate that site is but that’s 21K meters of climbing almost 70K feet which is a lot more then you stated this is gonna reuire a rare breed to do in 30 hours and already a special breed to do in 36 hours riding time, check your legs and altitudes carefully there is some nasty stuff around there.

The altitude is wrong. The loop is as near as dammit, but there must be some passes or detours. One Brit has done it and they did 45,000 feet. We are contacting the Audax Club Parisien about the start question and obviously the route.

Longest road ride I’ve ever done in the Alps was only about 110 miles but I don’t remember the average being much lower than it is on UK rides. 16-ish mph / 25-ish kph. That’s riding time, not taking into account stops for food, water, photos etc.

Got to remember that the roads are far smoother and better graded, that counts for a lot. The climbs are mostly pretty steady rather than stupidly steep.

Depends more on if you’re carrying your own gear I’d have thought. Panniers or rucksacks would knock a significant chunk off the average speed straight away.

Road are generally good, better on the French side.
Navigation is easier? less junctions.
Climbs, I know what you mean. Sit in and relax followed by decent respite.
We will have to carry some gear. Small bar bag and a saddle bag or rack mounted rigid box. Enough room for the fifty thousand chargers you seem to have to have these days!