is it acceptable to stand up and say that there is pretty obviously a cultural element to this sort of behaviour, which needs to be explored, acknowledged and understood so as to move onto prevention?

This thread won’t end well, if it even starts..

I don’t think anyone’s been shying away from pointing out the obvious, have they? Including some high profile Muslims, including Baroness Warsi.

Personally I think its a fairly predictable outcome from a religion and culture that regards females as fundamentally inferior human beings.

*prepares to be flamed*

Nor will the middle be very pleasant.

I think its a fairly predictable outcome from a religion and culture that regards females as fundamentally inferior human beings.

I see what you are trying to say but I don’t agree – this sort of abuse goes on no matter the religion of the perpetrator(s) so to blame the religion is a bit lazy.

Well, I think it also shows we as a culture could do a damn site more to look after our vulnerable youngsters.

In before th

Isn’t this more about the individuals rather than the culture?

Isn’t this more about the individuals rather than the culture?

Even if all the individuals, in most of the cases, are of the same culture?

Well, I think it also shows we as a culture could do a damn site more to look after our vulnerable youngsters.

Like the poor kid who died recently cos his drug addled mum let a heavy TV fall on him. Or the one who found a baby beaker full of ‘juice’ that turned out to be his mother’s methadone (kept in a beaker so she could feed herself it from her bed).

Life is full of horror stories like these and the OP is just yet another example of it.

so to blame the religion is a bit lazy.

Its not really, though, is it? Lets ignore the specific examples of abusing children, and look at Islam more generally. Would you honestly say that its attitude to women is a healthy one? I certainly wouldn’t!

I’ve spent a long time living in predominantly Muslim areas, and the hypocrisy of the younger males is breathtaking. There seems to be an expectation that the women must obey strict Islamic rules, while the blokes are cruising round in Beemers, dressed head to toe in Armani, and getting up to behavior that I’m sure the Prophet (peace be upon him) wouldn’t exactly be advocating

Isn’t this more about the individuals rather than the culture?

I think the point of this thread is to discuss that very point… 🙂

Would you honestly say that its attitude to women is a healthy one?

Perhaps not but they don’t advocate keeping sex slaves either – that comes down to individuals.

djglover – Member
Well, I think it also shows we as a culture could do a damn site more to look after our vulnerable youngsters.

This – It’s an absolute disgrace that we allow children to get anywhere near this type of abuse.

Agree that it needs to be tackled but it’s attitudes like

johndoh – Member

I see what you are trying to say but I don’t agree – this sort of abuse goes on no matter the religion of the perpetrator(s) so to blame the religion is a bit lazy.

that holds proceedings back in that regard…

Elephant in the room doesn’t even come close.

Actually, I never mentioned religion, and I very specifically chose not to. I don’t think you will find anything of any note in the Koran that actually suggests that treating womankind badly is a feature of that faith in any context whatsoever.

Perhaps not but they don’t advocate keeping sex slaves either – that comes down to individuals.

The whole thing IMHO, having witnessed it first hand, stems from a fundamental lack of respect for women that seems to be inherent in the culture. And seems to be getting worse, if anything. This is merely the worst way in which this manifests itself

You can’t actually say this. As to even suggest it immediately gets you compared to Nick Griffin

I agree with binners 100%.

You can’t actually say this. As to even suggest it immediately gets you compared to Nick Griffin

Now then binners thats partly my point, I kind of feel thats its a bit Emperors New Clothes to ignore the apparent facts.

Berm Bandit – Member
Actually, I never mentioned religion

No-one has, but the fact that someone (johndoh in this instance) has tried to defend “it” anyway is satisfyingly ironic.

Coyote – Member

I agree with binners 100%.

200%

No-one has

a fairly predictable outcome from a religion

I think you need a bit more information than just a few newspaper stories you are remembering of the top of your head.

Need to be a wee bit more scientific and compare results against other cultures before any conclusions are reached i’d suggest.

I’ve spent a long time living in predominantly Muslim areas, and the hypocrisy of the younger males is breathtaking. There seems to be an expectation that the women must obey strict Islamic rules, while the blokes are cruising round in Beemers, dressed head to toe in Armani, and getting up to behavior that I’m sure the Prophet (peace be upon him) wouldn’t exactly be advocating

Likewise I used to live in High Wycombe which has a strong Muslim community. The inconsistencies between men and women were all too plain to see. My group of friends at that time were largely Muslim and although seemingly balanced in their attitudes to most things I was always startled at their attitude towards women and homosexuals? I often felt that my company prevented them from fully displaying their mindset in this regard.

It’s not lazy to cite religion as having some responsibility to bear, or at least the culture of this religion.

It’s absolutely shocking – eight men convicted of taking vulnerable underage girls off the streets, giving them drugs and alcohol, and then raping them. In Derby.

Wait, Derby not Rochdale? Yes. The reason you probably haven’t heard about it is that seven of the perpetrators were white.

There is a problem with society’s attitude to women, and young women in particular. All society, not just the Muslim part of it.

[/quote]johndoh – Member

No-one has

a fairly predictable outcome from a religion

Your solution to the problem? Burry under the carpet, write it off as “life’s a bitch” type thing?

Not sure what the problem is anyway…

The red-tops and BBC make all these stories up.

Wait, Derby not Rochdale? Yes. The reason you probably haven’t heard about it is that seven of the perpetrators were white.

I’m fairly sure you’re the first one to mention skin colour. Don’t know what that has to do with anything.

I think the most shocking thing about the cases of this in Rochdale was the fact that the private homes ‘caring’ for these vulnerable young girls, appeared little more than dumping grounds from all around the country. There seemed to be zero supervision, or any desire to offer a duty of care to these children whatsoever.

It was an open invitation to abusers (of any colour or culture)

It was little mentioned at the time, but each one of these childrens places costs their local authority between £250,000 and £400,000 a year. The homes are mostly owned by private equity firms, and are in places like Rochdale because property is dirt cheap!

Its an utter disgrace. And a shocking reflection on our society. But hey… someones making a lot of money, so its ok

I’m fairly sure you’re the first one to mention skin colour. Don’t know what that has to do with anything.

Okay, they were also not Muslim.

I don’t want to degenerate into nit picking patriotpro, but Oh Contrare

binners – Member
I don’t think anyone’s been shying away from pointing out the obvious, have they? Including some high profile Muslims, including Baroness Warsi.
Personally I think its a fairly predictable outcome from a religion

johndoh – Member
I think its a fairly predictable outcome from a religion and culture that regards females as fundamentally inferior human beings.

I see what you are trying to say but I don’t agree – this sort of abuse goes on no matter the religion of the perpetrator(s) so to blame the religion is a bit lazy.

binners – Member
so to blame the religion is a bit lazy.
Its not really, though, is it? Lets ignore the specific examples of abusing children, and look at Islam more

Thus my post pointing out that I did not mention religion.

ts not really, though, is it? Lets ignore the specific examples of abusing children, and look at Islam more generally. Would you honestly say that its attitude to women is a healthy one? I certainly wouldn’t!

Your right our attitude to say Kylie, Jordan etc and saying who we would and would not do [ on here] is far healthier attitude towards women
EXCELLENT POINT

What I would say is that the statistics show that as a percentage dfo the population they are no more likely than white males to be abusive. The difference is that white folk tend to do it on their own and Asians in gangs

I missed the thread berating our culture for Jimmy Saville where it appears a lot of folk turned a blind eye to it and we blamed white folk, yorkshire and other cultural factors for this situation. The one blaming rock music or Wales for th lead singer of the Lost prophets etc

Its an example of some asians behaving badly so it gives you a reason to vent your prejudices yet you wont blame white culture or whatever when we have a monster in “ours”

No – I am saying that the religion of the perpetrators shouldn’t be used as a weapon.

It’s akin to calling all Muslims terrorists because they Muslim.

There are good and bad in all walks of life, of all religions.

Let’s be fair Binners is owning the thread in good fashion.

Your right our attitude to say Kylie, Jordan etc and saying who we would and would not do [ on here] is far healthier attitude towards women

I’d suggest its a lot healthier than regarding women as inherently second class citizens who are expected to be subservient at all times, yes.

I’m sure Kylie and Jordan would be devastated to learn that men find them attractive and sometimes express this in an uncouth and brusque manner. Especially when they look at their bank accounts

Its not really, though, is it? Lets ignore the specific examples of abusing children, and look at Islam more generally. Would you honestly say that its attitude to women is a healthy one? I certainly wouldn’t!

Quite right. For example, the Koran recommends that menstrating women are shunned, and that daughters are sold into slavery.

Oh.

I’m out of this shit.

Oh yeah, and I didn’t mention colour either, or any other sterotyped group. I merely said that there is a fairly obvious cultural element to this that needs to be explored, acknowledged and understood. What I was refering to is a culture that perceives vulnerability to be an opportunity to be exploited.

Our society doesn’t treat women as second-class citizens?

I think Nicole Cooke’s speech puts paid to that idea, at least in the world of cycling.

What’s all the fuss about? It’s not as if women are made to use a different entrance in to the mosque is it? Oh hang on…

binners – Member

Lets ignore the specific examples of abusing children, and look at Islam more generally. Would you honestly say that its attitude to women is a healthy one? I certainly wouldn’t!

The current mainstream interpretations at least are not. But they also don’t condone drugging 13 year olds and turning them into sex slaves, so there’s that.