Ard Rock '17 Debrief

Saturday riders are sent out with a bit of a gap, Sunday is a free for all.

What always amazes me is that there is a complete lack of rider briefing.
Even a sheet handed out at registration with a few basics would be good.

What always amazes me is that there is a complete lack of rider briefing.
Even a sheet handed out at registration with a few basics would be good.

Keep up at the back it’s Friday night on the main stage.

possibly some of you are missing the point? Its a race with mates and to have a good time. Getting caught up with folks is part of the deal. You wouldn’t force your mates off track would you?

If your a “proper” racer may i suggest the PMBA or similar?

@AlexSimon there is a rider briefing the evening before (I only remembered this while listening to the Saturday night briefing for the Sunday events :) )

@andyrm Thing is, on terrain like that it is probably best to allow the rider in front to decide where they feel most comfortable/safe to move to the side. Plus, sat behind someone you can’t always see whether left or right are likely to be your best option.

Two mates I rode with on the Saturday had issues with people coming past without waiting for them to pull over. When you are at your personal limit and someone appears at your shoulder it can be dangerously off-putting.

The rule of thumb I apply whether the faster or slower rider (we have all been both at one time or another) is simply “don’t be a ****”… and say thanks if someone lets you pass!

@AlexSimon there is a rider briefing the evening before (I only remembered this while listening to the Saturday night briefing for the Sunday events )

oh – I was in the pub on sat night. Wasn’t there at all on friday.
Was passing etiquette mentioned?

The problem with shouting “on your right/left” is that a lot of people filter out the “on your” bit and move to the side you’re trying to pass on.

Been guilty of this myself when breathing out my arse on climbs in XC races, and had others do it in front of me.

Out of interests do Ardrock seed or attempt to separate faster and slower riders?

I don’t think so considering I was in a group with former elite WC down hill riders and riders slower than me.

As I asked earlier, I am sure I answered a question during entry on entry about my ability on a bike but it was early. I am sure there was a drop down box with fast, average, bimble or words to that effect.

Seeding wouldn’t have mattered much because the first climb tends to cause a bottle neck. Some of the really fast guys just crawl up it so is hard not to pass them and then get in the way later.

Riders have set off times so they could be self-seeded at the point of ticket sale. Rate themselves 1-5 and then your start time can reflect your skill/fitness level. It won’t be perfect but better that catching lots of people up.

It’s a safety issue if you have really fast people with really slow. If you can make that a bit better/safer pre event it would be good for all.

Was passing etiquette mentioned?

Passing was covered in the briefing notes in the link in the final info email sent out before the event.
“Overtaking – Please do not endanger any other riders you are over taking by being reckless. Shout ‘rider’ as you are approaching to give the rider in front chance to move and only overtake if it is completely safe to do so. Conversely, riders in front need to move over if it’s appropriate to do so and let faster riders pass! Any rider seen or reported to be riding recklessly will be disqualified.”

Riders have set off times so they could be self-seeded at the point of ticket sale. Rate themselves 1-5 and then your start time can reflect your skill/fitness level. It won’t be perfect but better that catching lots of people up.

‘Tis tru.. we left on sunday at 0750, which I was pleased with (if you did up, down, left, right, ABC when paying with paypal, you got entered into the ‘super lightening fasssst’ category..)
However, as we only got into the Sunday race, by stage 4/5 we’d ‘caught up’ the sprint riders who’d left probably an hour or so after us…
Hey ho, adds to the skillz required!

DrP

The trouble with the Ard rock is that you end up with all the riders with fast fingers instead of fast legs :D

“Rider! Keep left/right” seemed to work for me, shouted 2-3 times when approaching.

First time for me and to be honest I really enjoyed it. Stage 1 and 2 scared me a bit and I did have to get off and walk one or two of the drops/really steep rocky sections.
For the number of riders I have to say I didn’t come across anyone that seemed frustrated or peeved with me ‘being in the way’. And I suspect that I WAS in the way now and then!(sorry to you all)
Personal preference as has been stated is to shout “on your left/right!”….instead of “rider!”- much easier for me to help people get passed without too much distraction.
Out of interest – although I don’t think I’m going to do it again next year, does anyone have any experience of similar enduros that are maybe a little less ‘technical’? I loved the social aspect of it and the competition- really well organised event in my VERY limited experience!

Shame if the format makes newer/less skilled riders feel like they’re in the way or not up to scratch in some way.

Shame if the format makes newer/less skilled riders feel like they’re in the way or not up to scratch in some way.

Erm, not being an arse, but it IS a race (isn’t it??)

DrP

EDIT – however, I do agree with teh sentiment that I WISH there was some process to seed ‘racers’ on the saturday, and ‘newbies/just for the ride’ on sunday.
Maybe assessment of previous times/evidence of previous race history?? Definietely far too much effort for the organisers to sensibly work with, but maybe looking at past R+R entires etc automatically..oh I don’t know!

Regardless, though I’d have preferred the saturday race (probably so i could let lose on sat eve!) I had a cracking ride on sunday..
21.39 on a HT..not too shabby…

DrP

^They would do well to remind people of that.

Nothing overly difficult especially compared to stuff like the UKGE put on. Quite clear some never venture beyond trail centres.

Too many people.

Erm, not being an arse, but it IS a race (isn’t it??)

No. Saturday is a race… Sunday’s Sport is not.

Erm, not being an arse, but it IS a race (isn’t it??)

Opinion seems to be divided in this thread.

Certainly sounds like a bit more seeding and categorisation could help, rather than just piling as many people in as poss? Send the newbies & chubsters out early and the fast people later?

It’s timed, there are podiums, it’s a race in my opinion.
Perhaps they should just open the route to riders to ride at their leisure on another day?

Rode the Sunday sport early on and it was great. Passed riders on pretty much every stage, worst being stuck behind a group in the woods on S1 and someone stood on the top of a little chute on S5 – who then proceeded to try and gap the little drop and nearly snapped his bike in two. I was shouting to get by but the guy was clearly struggling so just hung back. I think these were the intro riders which we caught up to. Ended up losing a lot of time on that, ah well.

Didn’t find anything tricky on the stages, despite riding them with no practice. Though we had a mooch around stage 1 on the Saturday and there were lots walking sections – riders that shouldn’t have been in the main race imo.

Regardless it was a good weekend, think I’ll try for the main event next year.

It’s a race but not a high level one. It’s more a festival/ exhibition/fun race vibe. Genuinely good riders have been there previous years like joe Barnes and Tracy Mosley but there are no policed rider gaps. No timed transitions. The course isn’t fully taped and there is a massive spread of abilities. You are broadly going to end up where you should do on the leaderboard but you need to go into accepting that your time is highly variable due to traffic.

yup what eddie says. Itsd a mates race for pub bragging rights not a “propper” race imo.

I saw 2 guys cutting out 2 corners on stage 1 as it was an enduro line…..

just go for the fun or not at all imo.

I think most enjoyed it. I think people would like to have an excuse for not winning it :) (wrong air in my tires in my case) :)

I think most enjoyed it. I think people would like to have an excuse for not winning it

Is being preoccupied an acceptable excuse for me? That or winding my self up so much at how pants i was being, i seriously debated throwing my bike down the hill and leaving it there on several occasions?

Still at least I’ll make it to the wedding in one piece.

You can’t call an event ‘enduro sport’, run it on the same day as an ‘intro’ and not expect people to want to go fast.

The only way you can say folks cut corners is if they went through the tape, everything inside the tape is fair game.

Didn’t find anything tricky on the stages, despite riding them with no practice. Though we had a mooch around stage 1 on the Saturday and there were lots walking sections – riders that shouldn’t have been in the main race imo

I agree – all the Sat riders should be able to ride the entire course (or at least give it a good crack :wink: )Sunday is another story – more relaxed and a chance for people to experience it. Guess you have to learn to push yourself somehow.

I caught a few people on Sat but they all pulled off so no issues there. I always left a big 20 – 30s gap at the start despite the marshals trying to hurry me along as I hate catching and trying to pass.

I always left a big 20 – 30s gap at the start

You do realise that to get the riders through, it averages out at 15 second gaps?

Does anything make you or anyone else special enough that you deserve a bigger gap?

Passing and being passed without losing too much time is all part of the skillset required for racing. :D

^^
How about I go between 2 slower riders… I leave a 30 second gap to the person in front, the person behnd me leaves IMEMDIATELY after me, and we’re all happy… :wink:

DrP

should clarify – it was only a 30s gap if the line behind me was small, ie 3 or 4 riders. Which was about 3 of the stages. I’m pretty sure I saw something mentioning 20s gaps in the info…..unless I’m dreaming

Shame if the format makes newer/less skilled riders feel like they’re in the way or not up to scratch in some way.

But they are in the way, and their riding ability isn’t up to scratch!

I’m not there to win, but I do expect to be able to have a ‘race run’ when I go to a race, and not be held up by someone who should be riding a trail centre blue route.

I know some will call me an overly competitive elitist prick, but it’s just a case of people riding at the correct level. I’d love to do an EWS, but I know it would be a waste of time and I’d just hold people up, so I don’t do it.

Out of interest – although I don’t think I’m going to do it again next year, does anyone have any experience of similar enduros that are maybe a little less ‘technical’? I loved the social aspect of it and the competition- really well organised event in my VERY limited experience!

Southern Enduro are pretty straight forward. There’s also a few in Wales that run primarily on trail centres.

mark88 – Member

Out of interest – although I don’t think I’m going to do it again next year, does anyone have any experience of similar enduros that are maybe a little less ‘technical’? I loved the social aspect of it and the competition- really well organised event in my VERY limited experience!

Southern Enduro are pretty straight forward. There’s also a few in Wales that run primarily on trail centres.
Depends where you are based up north PMBA and hope tech women’s only enduro. Down south the southern enduro series is the smart choice ;)

@mark88

Must’ve got held up some :roll:

PMBA races are generally more technically challenging than the ‘Ard Rock.

Some quotes about the Sunday from the Ardrock website

“FOR RIDERS WHOSE MAIN PRIORITY IS COMPLETING THE EPIC CHALLENGE.”

“just enjoy an amazing chilled weekend riding with your mates”

“but the Sport is so relaxed you might forget to beat your mates”

“this one’s all about fun and the challenge”

Obviously taken out of context, but maybe the organizers need to market it differently if people expect to be racing, or maybe they need to give more warning to those who expect it to be more of a bimble, or maybe the Sunday shouldn’t be timed so people just enjoy themselves without worrying what those in front and behind are doing.

@selaciosa – As I said on page 3, 2 punctures on stage 3, chain off on 4, crash on 5. I wasn’t held up, but when I was fixing my puncture on 3 I seen so many people out of their depth and blocking the trail.

I’m not there to win, but I do expect to be able to have a ‘race run’ when I go to a race

I’m pretty sure if you’re not there to win you’re not racing so really, you’re just getting in the way.

crash on 5.

So 5 was beyond your ability to ride? You shouldn’t have been there.

*edit sorry, it sounds like I’m picking on you, I’m not per se, just your posts are easy to find.

Double post

I’m pretty sure if you’re not there to win you’re not racing so really, you’re just getting in the way.

If I’d been passed in stage, i would be thinking the same thing, but I didn’t get in anyone’s way.

So 5 was beyond your ability to ride? You shouldn’t have been there.

You don’t know the difference between pushing hard and being beyond your ability?

Riders have set off times so they could be self-seeded at the point of ticket sale. Rate themselves 1-5 and then your start time can reflect your skill/fitness level. It won’t be perfect but better that catching lots of people up.

Would never work,according to majority of these posts everyone on STW rates themselves as Riding Gods :roll:

You don’t know the difference between pushing hard and being beyond your ability?

Seems you pushed hard, beyond your ability , and crashed :lol: