Maybe that was a bit abbreviated [about Ive] I like this design of his the most:

Can be used by a blind person, unlike all the other iPods.

The whole translucency thing was ripped from this:

But I like this version

the most, and it’s the most workable machine ever IIRC

I said they were innovative.

Nintendo beat them to it with Kinnect so not really.

The Wii bar?

I was thinking the Kinect was a far more advanced piece of hardware, though it was actually developed by Rare and some Israeli company.

Yup. Kinnect is just a pimped out bar.

Define ‘led’.

Xerox may have come up with the WIMP idea but they did nothing with it, so is that leading or not?

One more though – Office – they eliminated the competition completely just by being way better.

OK – I quite like these too [shame they’re not that well made :/ ]

Oh well at least it was free.

Anyway – I’ll let you talk about Apple 🙂

But I really was referring to the raw materials and the whole industries servicing the making of the products…

They are trying to phase out the worst toxins in the raw materials:
http://www.apple.com/environment/toxins/

They openly publish their ”Regulated Substances Specification” (PDF) describing which toxins and hazardous materials are present.

They also address working conditions by publishing their ”Supplier Responsibility Report” (PDF)

They are far from perfect, but as tech companies go they are better than most.

Office is still way ahead of the competition. As someone who’s had the misfortune of being forced to use Gmail & Docs in corporate environment I can tell you Office is winning the race while Google is stumbling out of the blocks.

Kinnetic is way better than that Nintendo junk, unless you only play games with your Gran.

Kinnetic is way better than that Nintendo junk, unless you only play games with your Gran.

But not innovative.

Yup. Kinnect is just a pimped out bar.

Completely different tech. The Wii “sensor bar” is really just a few infrared LEDs that the controllers can see.

The Kinect is WAAAY cleverer than that.

Windows – initially a poor shell over DOS

And DOS itself was bought in, it was originally 86-DOS.

It’s a really good question actually, how many true innovations have come directly from the big names rather than being acquired from swallowed-up smaller companies and startups?

I suppose the iPhone really cemented the lozenge form factor of a touch-screen smartphone, and the iPad was probably more innovative in that it actually created a non-existent market with something that hadn’t really been done before (outside of the PADDs in Star Trek: TNG anyway). But typically the big companies seem to be more about evolution rather than revolution.

Completely different tech. The Wii “sensor bar” is really just a few infrared LEDs that the controllers can see.

You can actually replace the sensor bar with a couple of tealights if you’re not too concerned about absolute accuracy. It’s the remotes that are clever, not the bar.

Completely different tech. The Wii “sensor bar” is really just a few infrared LEDs that the controllers can see.

I know but they took an idea someone else, improved it, but still someone else’s idea.

Completely different tech

and completely different budget.

OK – I quite like these too [shame they’re not that well made :/ ]

and that keyboard wasn’t innovative – other people were doing those keyboards and other key layouts to address rsi. I am typing on one of these now :

although flat on the desk.

Uh oh…

that keyboard wasn’t innovative

*shrug*
I just said I liked it.

Seriously, I’m outta here!

I know but they took an idea someone else, improved it, but still someone else’s idea.

That’s a stretch! Nintendo had a system for using light to detect where a controller was pointed at a screen. Really not much of an innovation beyond this:

The Kinect instead used an infrared scanning laser and video camera, plus some very clever software analysis, to do near real-time full body 3D motion analysis for multiple simultaneous players without needing special controllers, as well as incorporating facial recognition and doing localised voice recognition with multiple directional microphones.

Doing that in a commercial product for the home was a proper innovation.

Where Apple have been innovative (IMO of course!) is the importance they give to the aesthetics and finish of the complete product.

MacOS X wasn’t much better than the other offerings when it came out, but it really didn’t have any rivals when it came to the aesthetics combined with build quality of the hardware that housed it. When it came to the iPhone, something similar: the whole experience was better than the alternatives. Android has caught up with the OS, but there aren’t many phones that can rival the full iPhone experience – the Samsung 6, HTC One X and the Xperia Z spring to mind, but cheap Android phones feel just that: cheap. And that of course cheapens the brand.

Hahaha! I was waiting for you to post that Graham.

Anyone see that programme on the iPhone factory a couple of months back?

Sort of the point I made earlier, Apple talk the talk about greening up the supply chain but the reality* on the ground seemed fairly poor – slave labour digging oil wells with spades made out of Galapagos tortoise shells**.

* as presented by the programme.
** well, nearly.

Anyone see that programme on the iPhone factory a couple of months back?

I’m guessing you are talking about the Panorama programme “Apple’s Broken Promises”?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30532463

That + the Foxconn scandals are undoubtedly part of Apple’s motivation in publishing that Supplier Sustainability Report.

As part of that they made suppliers repay $3.96 million in “recruitment fees” taken from over 4,500 bonded workers and banned the practise in their suppliers.

http://www.besttechie.com/2015/02/12/apple-makes-ethics-improvements-to-its-supply-chain/

the reality* on the ground seemed fairly poor

But compared to what though?

The uncomfortable truth is that almost all our gadgets come from these same places, use the same cheap labour, extract from the same mines..

You could try a https://www.fairphone.com/ I suppose.

Three pages? Really?

MS and Apple play the same game, it just depends who gets to the post first.

MS tried to do tablets, Apple succeeded
Apple tried to take the PC market, MS succeeded

Who gives a toss really?

And FWIW, reports like that are token gestures trotted out only when someone gets caught. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cliched phrase “lessons learned” features heavily in it.