I am increasingly listening to music via the MacBook, which I currently run through my hifi via the headphone socket on the Mac. Sounds ok, but I’m sure it could be so much better. Anyone got any experience of connecting to hifi via a DAC, & whether it’s worth it?

I run my mp3 player using digital out to an ifi iDSD Nano then to an ifi iCan Micro then to a set of beyerdynamic T90’s. Play only lossless files and it sounds blooming marvellous.

Works work equally well to a hi fi bit no point doing it if you are playing mp3 files. Need to be flac, ogg or apple lossless files.

Plenty of dacs to choose from but the ifi stuff is brilliant…

I use an Audioquest dragonfly dac out of my macbook into my Rotel / Mission setup and its definitely better than straight out the headphone socket. Much more clarity and definition between sounds. Can also use it with headphones which sounds great too! Cheap too.

Hi bitrate MP3 will also benefit – you will have less noise floor than from your headphone socket for a start.

I have a couple of decent ones and they sound excellent.

Bought a cheap DAC off Ebay for my shed and it make a signifcant difference.

Bought a cheap DAC off Ebay for my shed and it make a signifcant difference.

Any links to the one you have? I’m thinking of giving one a go.

Look for the Fiio ones, they seem to do well. Check on Amazon for the reviews.

Also M-Audio is a well known and reliable brand.

I’ve thought about trying the dragonfly, but also tempted by an Arcam iDac – twice the price but is it twice as good?

I have a beresford caiman 2 which is excellent. It replaced an eBay job “valab” which was also good. Would be happy to move that on for £30 if you wanted to try one. Both much better than straight from the computer.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/499024/fs-valab-nos-dac-140-shipped

I got a Behringer UCA202 for my Raspberry Pi. While it appears cheap and cheerful, if you Google it there is a big review from some audiophile type who found it superior to more expensive DACs.

Another Beresford Caimain DAC here. Its a cracking bit of kit. Mines been replaced by the Bushmaster MKII and Caiman MKII. Both meant to be fantastic.

I know Flac etc are better than MP3 but is it really not worth bothering with a DAC if I’ll mainly be playing iTunes downloads etc?

Unless your bitrate is really low then yes

My beresford TC dac thingy went bad (odd crackling/distortion) replaced it with a musical fidelity V-dac II which I’m impressed with, an improvement on the Mac converter which is quite good for a computer.
If your amp/speakers/headphones are low-end I would think twice about a dac as an upgrade though.

Hi-fi is good quality, so I’m thinking DAC is worth the investment if there would be a noticeable improvement.
What about using Pure software on the MacBook plus a DAC, or would that be overkill?

What’s your budget? Have a read of hifi +’s reviews of ifi kit.

They usually review the very expensive end of hifi but were completely bowled over by the iDSD Nano (£165). Plays a host of host formats also.

I’m listening to it now and its brilliant. Runs of an internal battery so can hook it up to an android phone via an otg cable and have decent playback on the move also…

Richer Sounds were doing the irDac for £249, but it looks like I’ve missed the boat on that one. £250 max

Any links to the one you have? I’m thinking of giving one a go.

It’s the Behringer UCA202 as mentioned above.

Behringer UCA202

Well worth £20.

An interesting review here

For that money the ifi iDAC Micro.

Ifi btw are a subsidiary of AMR who make some wildly expensive gear and the technology has trickled down to the ifi range.

Slight thread hijack . Hope the op don’t mind me asking in here?

I use my MacBook Pro from the line out to a cheap lepai 2020+ amp which I bought years ago which is connected to some kef speakers. I’ve used it like this for a few years and thiught it sound decent but I’m still using the macs crappy sound card right?

If I was to get a behringer UCA202 and connect it to the lepai amp then to the speakers would that improve my audio quality. Never heard of the UCA202 before I wonder whether this would improve my setup?

UCA202 DAC -(RCA) -> Lepai 2020+ amp -> kef speakers

^^ or am I best to get rid of the amp completely?

or am I best to get rid of the amp completely?

You still need an amp. The DAC just takes a digital signal and converts to an analogue line out signal, which most older amps need.

IMO you would notice an improvement in sound quality even with something as cheap as UCA202 DAC.

I run a Beresford Caiman 2 connected to my apple tv via the optical out.

Beresford is connected to my amp which then allows me to stream my iphone direct.

Sound quality is actually rather good.

@ pedropete – if you’re using a Mac as your source, then just get an Airport Express to operate as your dac. It’s actually a v good dac for the price and also enables you to AirPlay music from your Mac (or you can operate over ethernet.

If you need confidence in this approach, Google will throw up dove reviews and even TonyL who runs pinkfishmedia runs one in just the way you’re describing.

FWIW I use the same to stream from iTunes on my iMac. Note that all my CDs are ripped to ALAC and the Airport Express streams at up to CD quality (16/44.1). You can get into the whole streaming software thing, though IMO it just takes it too far into the laws of diminishing returns, hence why I stick with iTunes.

Still doesn’t sound as good as my LP12 though….

OMITN

You can also use the Airport Express on a Windows PC/laptop and/or Android phone.

Another ifi fan here.

+1 on the behringer UCA202.

Think I heard about it on here originally.

How good will iTunes with files saved as 256kbps aac sound through something like the arcam rpac usb dac?
Listening through the headphone jack on my pc isn’t that great, noticeably lower quality than Spotify with sound quality set at ‘extreme’ through my Denon amp via Google chromecast audio.
I’d like something similar quality for iTunes, is a USB dac for £100 going to be worth paying for?

I use a classic Squeezebox with Burr Brown DAC playing FLAC files hooked up to my amp.

Though my current amp has built in streaming and FLAC support. It’s probably just as good or better, but I like my Squeezebox. The thing even has digital out for the amp, but purist in me feels it’s still worth having that DAC and fancy analogue cables to feed to the amp.

Headphones, you want to be looking at something that does crossfeed to create a more natural stereo sound instead of the in head (and some find tiring) sound of headphones. For headphones I still use an old MP3 player but run Rockbox on it which has decent audio controls, and supports crossfeed.

Here goes..

Virtually all modern DAC’s are based on the same architecture. Also, Apple devices are known for having exceptionally good DAC’s built in (something the audiophool world would rather you didn’t believe).

Is the output of the Mac just a headphone socket? If you buy an outboard DAC you will probably convince yourself there’s a difference but the chances are there’ll be nothing discernible.

The below is an interesting article based on proper reasoning and measurement which evaluates the built in DAC of an iPhone 5, as an example. It’s worth a read. If you want to spend money then aim to eventually upgrade to some proper active speakers.

The HiFi world is largely cobblers I’m afraid , I’ll expect the usual abuse for saying so..

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

No, I was thinking this the entire thread.

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all, rather using a straight-through digital connection from the Mac to the amp? Sound card is irrelevant then, what’s appearing at the amp is the same data bits that are in the audio file. Does the Mac not have any sort of digital output or something?

z:ero DAC headphones – very nice they are

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all,

You have to use a DAC at some point.

Digital inputs on hifi amps are not that common as they don’t have onboard DAC’s.

Most CD decks will have an onboard DAC but unless it’s very high end then even a cheap external DAC will probably perform better.

That cheap Behringer performs really well. Buy one for £20 and try it.

Ken Rockwell is a bit of a flat earth kind of guy though and whilst I read his stuff I don’t agree with 90% of what he writes and that stuff on DAC’s is nonsense.

I’d be happy to be blind tested accordingly…

No, I was thinking this the entire thread.

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all, rather using a straight-through digital connection from the Mac to the amp? Sound card is irrelevant then, what’s appearing at the amp is the same data bits that are in the audio file. Does the Mac not have any sort of digital output or something?
I run an optical TOSLink from the headphone socket on my Mac Mini, (the optical facility is built in), straight into an optical in on my venerable Yamaha DSP-AX2, which has got to be fifteen years old now. Works just fine.
I thought most Macs have an optical out, it’s just not well known.
http://www.noproblemmac.com/blog/2014/01/30/how-to-get-digital-audio-from-your-mac-to-your-receiver/

Digital inputs on hifi amps are not that common as they don’t have onboard DAC’s.

If my old Yamaha does, surely much more modern amps do?

Danny – can you please explain why the Ken Rockwell stuff is nonsense?

I spent 4 yrs doing a BSc Hons in audio and music technology and it all makes perfect sense to me.

People are very reluctant to accept that the “HiFi” world is largely rubbish, fuelled by marketing. I also spent a bit of time working for Arcam and learned all about what (or rather didn’t) separate their low end stuff from their super duper £££££ stuff.

People are very reluctant to accept that the “HiFi” world is largely rubbish, fuelled by marketing. I also spent a bit of time working for Arcam and learned all about what (or rather didn’t) separate their low end stuff from their super duper £££££ stuff.

I’m interested to know how you think the hifi world is rubbish?

Are you trying to say that there’s not much difference in the sound that different systems produce?

From Ken’s ‘review’

I have not performed my Acid Test where I A/B the iPhone 5’s output playing a CD recorded via iTunes as an ordinary AAC file versus a real, dedicated CD player playing the same physical CD

Of course it is very difficult to setup such a test with the levels and timing matched

I suspect the iPhone 5 will also pass the Acid Test; in any case, it sounds great subjectively as a source.

So he hasn’t done any A/B testing, admits that the set up isn’t a true test set up and then closes by saying ‘but I’m sure I’m right even though I haven’t yet proved it.

He concludes the whole piece by saying ‘don’t confuse the the iphone with those crappy MP3 players – hang on Ken – I though you said there was no difference in playback devices.

And I’m not comparing it to a ‘crappy MP3 player’, I’m comparing it to a decent set up consisting of source, dac, amp, headphones.

Ken is an Apple fanboi ultimately and he spouts a great degree of bollocks on this subject and also cameras – another area he can be spot on but often just likes to think he’s right.

I have used an ipod 5 direct and as a source for a DAC and I currently use a Sony NWZ-A10 as a source. The A10 can play back high res files natively so have done A/B comparisons with it as a source direct in to a headphone amp and also feeding a high res enabled DAC (ifi iDSD Nano) using the same headphones and the same high res FLAC encoded files and would challenge anyone not to be able to tell the difference.

Jamz – I’m saying things will sound different yes but that ultimately most domestic HiFi is flawed in it’s approach to achieving the ultimate in sound quality.

I appreciate that some people prefer the “sound” of one manufacturer to another and that’s fine. What I object to is pseudo science where claims are made without any scientific basis.

Danny – surely the points you raise are a good thing? He’s done pretty scientific quantitative analysis but freely admit he’s not done ABX testing. HiFi manufacturers usually just spout meaningless info out of context , for example speaker frequency response charts (which are entirely meaningless without knowing how phase correlates).

As for the OP – he may find he prefers the sound of a new DAC but I’m sure it’d provide little or no increase in fidelity or quality over the in built one.

It’s not that I’m a massive Apple fan per se but more that domestic HiFi and what magazines would have you believe bears little resemblance to the true science of audio and indeed what goes on in the studio recording/ production world.

There’s an awful lot behind my claims that I’m sure most people don’t want to listen to but have a look on the avi HiFi forum for threads (not just those from Ashley) that are from audio enthusiasts who are largely engineers, for a different perspective.

Just sat listing to Glenn Gould’s Goldberg Variations; Spotify through Apple TV and a TEAC UD-H01 (Arcam FMJ, Neat speakers). Sounds good to me. Richer Sounds have it at £99 – just rode in and availed myself of the offer. Family all hiding in the kitchen.

djflexure – That TEAC dac looks really cheap at Richer Sounds. Other places are selling it for £300!

As for the OP – he may find he prefers the sound of a new DAC but I’m sure it’d provide little or no increase in fidelity or quality over the in built one.

I don’t know about the quality of the sound card/dac in the Mac book but even the cheap £20 external dac made a big difference compared to my cheapy HP laptop headphone socket.