” which said that the quality of food eaten was actually more important than the quantity as an indicator of a likely healthy weight. ie eating less processed food and more vegetables was likely to be a better way of losing weight than calorie counting without thinking about the contents. “

Reason that works is unless your medically broken its almost impossible to eat enough bulk of veg and real clean food to get fat.

they just aint calorie dense enough if prepared well.

but I’d suggest you need to get your diet sorted first.

To the OP, to couter this a little bit, the only time I successfully lose weight is when I get the exercise right. Then I don’t even have to be particularly strict with the diet, I still lose weight.

Always arguing 🙄

Grips, Getting your diet correct (something you seem not to have done yourself, yet) is vital, no matter what your sports/exercise goals are. Getting you diet right is something to get right for the rest of your life.

So, telling someone that getting their diet isn’t important is just very poor advise.
😐

i agree with mol in a way – its not as simple as calories in needs to be less than calories out.

It has to be clean calories.

talking as someone who has existed on a diet of mars bars and coke for short periods(due to non-availiblity of decent food) theres nothing quite like the lethargy induced by a sugar filled diet. – and i was eating about 3 times my normal calories and still hungry a lot of the time.

The joy of getting back on a clean veg and nutriant filled diet was great – felt much more energetic , full and more likely to exercise than on my mars bar diet.

I’ve read most of the thread, but thought you might be interested in my experience.

I have lost over 22lbs in the last two months.

Don’t eat much carbs these days, very little, eat mostly fish and chicken and veg.

No snacking.

Also been using Herbalife life protien shakes for breakfast and midday food.

Steady lose of weight with good energy levels.

Works for me, I was skeptical – but a friend in work had tried Herbalife and it worked for her.

Only another 7 lbs to go.

Take up Deadlifting as a hobby, never found anything which both tires me out so much and increases my appetite so much – biggest metabolic kick I’ve ever experienced….

So, telling someone that getting their diet isn’t important is just very poor advise.

I didn’t say it wasn’t important, I’ve been saying how important it is for ages. I dispute that it’s MORE important than exercise. Your exercise and diet have to work together. It’s mis-matching the two that will cause problems with either performance or weight. If a diet helps one person lose weight, it might hinder another person’s training.

It’s like saying that the key is more important than the lock…

and continue with my Z2’s at the weekend but feed on the bike – with the exception of a pre ride porridge brekki of course

I wouldn’t do this – the 45 minute rule applies to all riding. So skip breakfast, don’t take any carbs in the first 45 minutes, and then eat however you want after that. Have some fast carbs immediately you get back, and you should be able to eat plenty after that to re-fuel.

Exercising without carbs and insulin swilling around my bloodstream is the one thing that’s had the biggest effect on my riding and my weight.

Interestingly, on he first day of “normal” eating even though my legs we aching from a 50 miles effort yesterday, I popped out (at 6pm) and did a 16 mile 200m climbed windy TT style thrash immediately after work, with nothing but a plum and a satsuma to eat since lunch at 12:30.

29kph average with one direction into the wind and I was cranking them over like a riding god. I remember now, in the first 8 years of MTB I never ate breakfast before a ride. Perhaps there’s something in molgrips advice eh…?

I too recently started riding first thing on an empty stomach, i,e. without a pre-ride breakfast. Thought I wouldnt last more than half an hour but was surprised that I can go about 2hrs before i start to feel really hungry. Lost over a stone in just a few weeks, doing that.

However, I have noticed that my energy levels do start to dip after an hour or so, so if you are trying to get fit rather than just shed weight, then eating something after 45mins is advisable.

Out of interest have you measured your basal temperature?, i.e. your temperature before you get out of bed first thing.

I too have a reasonably low resting HR, especially as I am not that fit and my BMI is not too different to yours. I discovered that my basal temperature is sub 35 deg C.

So clearly my body/metablolism/BMR is downregulated. Never really got the bottom of it, but I know my cortisol levels are low and cortisol is required to help the thyriod hormones, resulting in a low metablic rate/hypothyriod type symptoms even though the thyriod hormones are within “normal range”.

To counter this I make sure I eat some fast carbs, every so often, even though my diet is mainly devoid of refined carbs, just to keep my BMR ticking over. If I dont my BMR seems to rapidly drop off.

Get on a keto diet and cut down your calories, it should start to come off. I’ve been on a CKD for the past few months eating about 1650 calories a day and it’s fine. You feel pretty drained on rides to start with but it gets better. I only do about 70-80 miles a week as well as stronglifts 5×5 and don’t really feel any worse than I did when eating more calories and carbs. My arms and legs are getting ripped, veiny and awesome now as well 😀 5’9″ and still 12 stone here – haven’t lost any weight on this diet but the fat is going. I’m that annoying “skinny fat” where I look fine with clothes on but without I have a fair bit of fat lurking on the stomach and chest.

Personally the not eating before exercise thing doesn’t work for me at all it just means I feel like crap doing the exercise (unless its very minimal) then get insanely hungry afterwards.

Start smoking – End of thread.

Personally the not eating before exercise thing doesn’t work for me at all it just means I feel like crap doing the exercise (unless its very minimal) then get insanely hungry afterwards.

I think there’s a degree of adaption involved. I used to be fuelled almost entirely by carbs it seems, and I had the same issues as you. I could never conceive of riding without breakfast. However, after iDieting it for a bit, and doing some rides following the 45 minute rule, it started to get much better.

I still don’t think I can be quite as free from fast carbs as some folk manage though – I’m calling it genetics.

I dispute that it’s MORE important than exercise.

And there you are calling other people ignorant 🙄

Diet is very important, we all agree on this. Furthermore, diet, eating food, is an habitual behaviour. We tend to go back to eating foods from quite a short list of foods we have come to prefer. However, those preferences aren’t always very healthy or conducive to maintaining a good B/F %. So establishing good habits, establishing a tendancy to choose to eat the right foods, dare I say it, healthy foods. Is more important than exercise.
A good diet will nourish your body as it requires, a good diet will reduce systemic inflammation and bring your body into a better state of homeostasis. Its not just about Strava, diet is about nourishing your body correctly. Then, left to its own devices, on a good diet, a person’s body should enjoy a moderate B/F %, when everything is working correctly ! on a good diet, you should’t be over weight.

That’s why diet is important, because, no matter how active you are, throughout different stages in your life. If you are nourishing your body correctly, you shouldn’t suffer excessive B/F.

Now, that your diet is sorted, one shouldn’t overlook that exercise is an important facet of daily life. We’re designed to move about a bit, and theres lots of evidence that its really quite good for us.
Exercise is an essential addition to a life lead while consuming a good diet. And on a good diet, a person should be able to sustain a moderate level of exercise, enough to again support a good degree of physical health.

So, that ^^ is about people who, imo, should seek to eat well and exercise a bit in order to enjoy a healthy lifestyle.

I am not describing people who wish to enter competition. This is a different goal which requires a different strategy. looking at specific dietary needs and specific structuring of exercise / training programs to achieve a certain level of physical performance to enable a person to compete.

Now, as per the title of this thread, the subject is about controlling or reducing body fat. Therefore I suggest that diet be the first port of call, supplemented with exercise.

To suggest that a poor diet is of no matter, so long as exercise is elevated into the stratosphere is cobblers !
😀

Most people call it cake….

Ofc it’s about calories in vs calories out. HIIT raising BMR post-exercise is still part of that equation.
2300 is too much for the amount of exercise you’re doing given that you’re trying to lose weight. What you cut that down to depends on a lot of factors but no harm in reducing it gradually (say to 2000 for a couple of weeks and see how you get on).
There still seems a lot of crap being typed about burning fat to, that’s irrelevant for someone trying to lose weight – it’s burning calories that matters. The fat burning zone is NOT about burning fat for weight loss it’s about training the efficiency of your fat burning so you don’t have to switch to carbs as your exercise fuel source.
You still use fat anyway at higher intensities, you just use less as a percentage of meeting your energy requirement as your body starts burning more carbs to keep up with the demands.
I’d say try and get three sessions in a week, one 3-5 hour ride at the weekend at a steady pace, one 2 x 20min interval session mid week (overall session is about an hour inc. warm-up & down) and one HIIT interval session (using a tabata protocol or similar) so can be done in under 30 mins. Just make sure you have at least one rest day between the interval sessions. If you feel fine doing that on 2000 calories then maybe try dropping more but if you feel hanging then don’t add more calories too readily – switching to interval training takes a while for your body to adapt anyway so can feel rough no matter how much you’re eating.

To suggest that a poor diet is of no matter, so long as exercise is elevated into the stratosphere is cobblers !

That’s why I’m not suggesting it!

FuzzyWuzzy’s advice is mostly good, but don’t overlook the type of calories you are eating. 2000 calories of 50% fat, 40% protein and 10% carbs will have a very different effect on your body and your riding than 10% fat, 30% protein and 50% carbs.

I dispute that it’s MORE important than exercise.

weight loss is about 60% diet and 30% exercise

weight loss is about 60% diet and 30% exercise

I’m intrigued… what’s the other 10%?

weight Fat loss is about 80% diet and 20% exercise
🙂

Ofc it’s about calories in vs calories out. HIIT raising BMR post-exercise is still part of that equation.
To achieve what ?

There still seems a lot of crap being typed about burning fat to, that’s irrelevant for someone trying to lose weight
Very relevant though for a thread titled
“Another “why am I fat” thread…“

it’s burning calories that matters.
Surely the source of those calories is important ?, ie, to source as many spent calories as you can, from your fat deposits, ie, reduce your body fat.

I’m intrigued… what’s the other 10%?

Arguing on the internet will push your heart rate and metabolism up enough to account for that. 🙂

@solo:

To achieve what ?

To burn more calories…

As for the rest – the important thing is to create a calorie deficit, you’ll then lose the fat stores anyway – you don’t need to specifically target burning fat during the exercise. In fact that can be detrimental to weight loss, especially to someone with a limited amount of time to exercise as if, for example, they only have 5 hours a week to train they’ll burn a lot more calories from doing the 3 sessions I posted earlier than just doing 5 hours z2 and they’ll lose weight faster as a result.

the important thing is to create a calorie deficit, you’ll then lose the fat stores anyway

Yeah but your body could make that much harder for you if you have lots of insulin floating around your blood stream.

Nice one fuzzywuzzy. What about leading up to an endurance event though? I don’t want to lead the thread into something specific about this, but I’m doing BORS on May 12 (132k MTB. It strikes me that during the tapering week I should be eating more cals in order to load up and forget the diet for a bit.

Or should I?

zilog6128 – Member
I’m intrigued… what’s the other 10%?

Nothing special, and certainly not a “one size fits all answer”: that “other” is personal and varies for individuals.
Could include drugs, hormone levels, stress, …
Won’t be exactly 10% for everyone, but it’s a near enough figure.
The point was that diet’s most important, exercise next, but there can be other significant factors too.

To burn more calories…
where are the calories coming from ? baring in mind that there are more cals stored in fat per unit of weight than in protein or carbohydrates.

Also, the OP wants to lose some B/F, hence the phrase in the thread title “why am I fat“.

you don’t need to specifically target burning fat during the exercise.
The OP wants to reduce B/F. What else do we want to be burning ?

In fact that can be detrimental to weight loss
You’re saying burning fat is detrimental to losing weight. So if you’re not burning fat, in order to lose weight, what are you burning so as to lose weight ?.
Not withstanding that the OP wants to lose…. some body fat.
🙂

Indeed ^^.

This describes me perfectly:

I’m that annoying “skinny fat” where I look fine with clothes on but without I have a fair bit of fat lurking on the stomach…

Did I mention I’ve a 36″ waist? 😯

Kryton57: Are you me?

SaxonRider – Member
Kryton57: Are you me?

I don’t know, *looks in mirror* maybe?

Embarrasingly last night I picked up a pair of club bibs from a guy the same size as me. He wanted rid becasue they were to saggy around his waist. The fitted me perfectly. 😐

I must admit, after 2 days with lower carbs (yet still clean) I’m feeling a bit more “awake” than has usually been of late.

I’m following this thread with interest. I started a diet 3 weeks ago and have lost just over a stone so far. 2 more to go. I’ve done it by limiting my calories to under 1000 for 5 days a week with 2 free days. Also riding 80 odd miles a week (spread over 5 days) as fast as I can courtesy of strava. Make sure that my food is good, clean basic ingredients with lots and lots of greens and lean meat.

I feel great, bloody fantastic actually. The reduction in calories only really affects me in the last hour at work where I stride round looking for things, people, anything to eat. 🙂

I suppose that my diet is one I’ve sort of made up with elements from a variety of others. Do other people do this or is that not a good idea?

I started with the iDiet, yossarian, and modified it to suit my riding. In fact, I have followed the general principles of reducing insulin when it’s not needed, by reducing high GI foods, and to fuel the training I want to do I eat high GI foods at the right times.

It works, but my biggest issue is finding time and a routine.

If you understand the principles behind a diet or training, you can make food and exercise work for you. If you don’t you have to follow the recipes to the letter I suppose. The fasting diet that people were talking about probably works for the same reasons as the iDiet does, even though the recipe is different.

Interesting that the people losing weight on this thread are doing it counting calories, and the people arguing the toss, aren’t….

I’m not counting calories at all and I managed to lose 1st in around 6 weeks. I’m now happy with where I’m at and maintaining it by reducing my carb intake.

If you are a stone or more overweight, the weight comes off more quickly and easily than if you only need to lose a few pounds.

Interesting that the people losing weight on this thread are doing it counting calories, and the people arguing the toss, aren’t….

I lost 2stone not counting calories, I just ate better with reduced quantity.

Interesting that the people losing weight on this thread are doing it counting calories, and the people arguing the toss, aren’t….

Apparently not.

Tried MFP for a while and according to it’s “highly accurate knowledge of my metabolic rate and my biochemical individuality” it was telling me, based on the calories in/out move more principle, that in 4 weeks I would be lighter than I’ve been since I was 14 and I’m now 45. Which just didn’t happen. So something is clearly wrong with that oversimplified theory (for me).

Switched over to reducing my body’s insulin response, aka idiet and lost a stone in next to no time.

What is obvious from this thread is that people are understandably very positive about what works for them, but there’s zero guarantee that it’ll work for someone else.

not counting calories, I just ate better with reduced quantity.

semantics…

I’m at and maintaining it by reducing my carb intake.

so, eating less..?

What is obvious from this thread is that people are understandably very positive about what works for them, but there’s zero guarantee that it’ll work for someone else.

Careful now, when I tried to point out that people are very different, I got accused of thinking I was ‘special’ and making excuses.

I’m at and maintaining it by reducing my carb intake.

so, eating less..?

Eating less carbs doesn’t necessarily mean eating fewer calories now does it?

No – eating different. More fat, more protein, fewer carbs.