All the gear, no idea = person with a better bike than the observer but not perceived as being as good a rider as the observer.

Observer gets smug feeling (or at least I do 🙂 )

People buying expensive stuff is good for the industry, don’t really have an issue unless they presume they’re a better rider than you because they have spent more in which case it’s the law that you have to chase them mercilessly.

Not sure if this applies here..

A few years ago I was riding the longer of the two trails in the FoD and was just at the top of the longest climb, which lets face it, isn’t an Alp. There was a bloke standing to the side, barely able to breathe holding a more expensive model of the bike I was on. “You should have bought the carbon one” he wheezed to me as I rode past, indicating his own bike which he seemed completely unable to ride. Yes, I still get a smug glow. 🙂

I always thought it meant somebody turning up with all top end gear and then just being crap. When I used to snowboard I bumped in to a guy with all the top kit. Great board, boots, trousers, jacket, gloves, basically everything. He couldn’t even stand up on the board. That, to me, would define the phrase. He’d have been better off investing in lessons.

I’ve never thought of it as a jealousy thing, more the above, the sort of person who has more money than sense, who will just decide to take up some random hobby/pastime on a whim, because it looks cool, and go and buy the most expensive kit, because it looks cool, indulge in said hobby for a few weeks, really badly, get bored, flog kit cheaply or stick it in the garage, then find another hobby.

I’m assuming this forum is running on top end servers…

I took a guy from work fishing one time, he had been asking me for ages if he could come out as he wanted to ‘get into’ it. Asked him if he had any gear to which he had none. That’s ok, I had enough spare kit to set him up for the day so he could try it out. Arranged to pick him up and when I did he appeared out of his garage with enough brand spanking new kit that must have set him back a couple of grand. None of which was anywhere near ideal for the day’s fishing I had lined up. He spent the entire 2hr journey bragging about his top of the line gear and how the other guys in the shop were green with envy when he was buying it all.

Arrived at the location and getting set up it was obvious he had no clue what to do, gave him some standard advice and tried to show him stuff but he didn’t want to pay attention. Needless to say he caught bugger all and he actually broke the top piece of his new fishing rod which set him off on one about buying quality gear this shouldn’t happen etc etc.

He never said a word in the car on the way back he was bealing that much and I believe the shop told him to do one when he later tried to get a refund on the kit. He is my definition of all the gear, no idea and I learned my lesson never to repeat the experience again.

If you think it’s about jealousy, you’re one of them…

I think it comes from people who have the polar opposite view to me when buying new stuff, I’ve always believed in buying sports gear above my current standard offered at good prices, as I’ve always found it encouraged me to improve quicker and not be held back by the equipment (which would then need upgrading).

Classic case, my recent turbo trainer, part of me though buy a Tacx 2240… But I splashed out on an Elite Direto and it’s been great so far.

Some people think you should only buy equipment similar to your current abilities, which certainly could save money in the short term, but then you might want/need to spend more on something better before the old gear has died through wear and tear.

If you think it’s about jealousy, you’re one of them…

Very much this.

Some people think you should only buy equipment similar to your current abilities, which certainly could save money in the short term, but then you might want/need to spend more on something better before the old gear has died through wear and tear.

Yeah but there’s a balance to be struck. If you wake up on Monday morning and decide to take up cycling you might be better off buying a mid/entry level bike with comfortable geometry instead of a Scott Foil Premium on Lightweight Aero wheels or whatever. You might be better off with a basic pair of SPD’s and mtb or touring shoes instead of carbon soled race shoes and Speedplay Zero ti. If you just passed your driving test a Ferrari might be a bad idea. If you’re not a professional arborist you probably don’t need a Husqvarna 395 with a 30″ bar.

Sometimes modestly priced kit will actually be designed to a certain level, or be more durable or comfortable than the most expensive, advanced or race ready stuff. If you’ve never ridden off road you’ll probably struggle to set up a a Cane Creek double barrel – climb, trail and descend might be more appropriate (and even that took some explaining for some folk).

The single most annoying thing about this thread is all the people saying it’s about jealousy, when what they actually mean is envy.

FWIW I don’t give a care about what other people ride, or how good they are, as long as they’re trying and having fun. I love seeing the fancy kit out on the trails, it’s ace!

The only time people with super nice kit are annoying is when they deride or belittle other people’s kit purely because it’s cheaper, but those people are better described as ‘nobbers’ rather than ATGNI.

I probably should know; but it turns out I’ve no idea…

Rachel

To the OP, really? Is this the best you can come up with? Who cares? Get off the internet and get a life!

Slightly too defensive there……..you’re one of them too?

I’m also reminded of the premier league footballer who lives near me who has put a long list of Ferraris and Lambos into fields.

Couldn’t care less if some brainless ponce crashes his flash motors, but if he’s endangering others (as he must be if he’s driving like a ****), then why aren’t the local dibble involved?

Darkside – what does it really mean?

We all know the phrase and I’m sure we’ve all used it at some point to describe someone who spends a lot of time riding on roads they don’t really need to, usually because they have skinny tyres and like smooth surfaces.

And perhaps there isn’t really anything wrong with that.

So why does the term exist; what does it really mean or describe; why does joining the darkside offend us so much?

In short, is there any moral argument against the darkside?

Is the answer Triathlete ?

What jimjam said.

There’s an element here of personal safety.  Done your CBT, had six lessons, run out and bought a Fireblade or an R1.  Or had an afternoon’s power kiting with a mate (sorry Rusty) and bought a Blade V.  Sometimes, kit aimed at beginners or enthusiasts is done so with good reason.

Darkside – what does it really mean?

AFAIK, it’s describing Bike Forum regulars who venture into the Chat Forum, or vice versa.  Or similarly, MTB / road cyclists transgressing.

Common sight at Cat4 Road races and crits – top end bike and groups, fancy carbon rims and gets shelled first lap. I remember a guy racing a local vets Roadside on Time frame, Super Record and Bora wheels. Hadn’t set the rear mech correctly, into the spokes, took our rear mech which wrapped itself around the cassette and snapped the chainstay

Remember reading an article from a motorbike journo about turning up to a track day at Donington – he goes out in the fast group, bloke in front of him is some little dude on a brand-spanking litre supersports, brand new leathers, brand new helmet etc. Journo has a little chuckle to himself at this ATGNI dude he’ll be riding circles round, then they’re waved off…. and the little dude just rides serenely off into the distance at great pace, the journo didn’t see him again until dude lapped him shortly after. Turned out it was John Hopkins learning Donington before his first British GP. Books and covers and not judging, and all that. 🙂

This would apply very much to photography. Particularly as most people seem to think tuition is about learning to use the camera, rather than learning how to point it at things. I’ve been doing it on and off for years, have a decent slr and a few lenses. Wife bought me a one on one with a famous welsh landscape tog for my birthday at about the cost of a new lens. That one long day and some practice thereafter did far more for my photography than any lens would.

ATGNI – someone who buys high end kit just to show of their material wealth,  rather than because it conveys performance gains.

Or

Someone who buys high end kit to convey performance gains, but doesn’t have the fitness or ability to make use of it.

Both of which imply that the purchaser is aware of this and is either a show off or too lazy to train.

Someone who’s spent £300 on a Shockwiz rather than learning how suspension works.

L

I took a guy from work fishing one time, he had been asking me for ages if he could come out as he wanted to ‘get into’ it. Asked him if he had any gear to which he had none. That’s ok, I had enough spare kit to set him up for the day so he could try it out. Arranged to pick him up and when I did he appeared out of his garage with enough brand spanking new kit that must have set him back a couple of grand. None of which was anywhere near ideal for the day’s fishing I had lined up. He spent the entire 2hr journey bragging about his top of the line gear and how the other guys in the shop were green with envy when he was buying it all.

Exactly inappropriate gear because he didn’t have a clue. It’s not about jealousy of people having good gear, it having the wrong gear because they don’t know what they need and have thrown money at the issue. As usual on here people will try and justify themselves by saying “I like nice stuff”, which is missing the point, it’s not a issue with some who is crap at something having nice stuff, it’s if the nice stuff is inappropriate for what they are doing, they could have spent the same money and got more improvement, enjoyment, whatever out of the equipment.

I’ve always found it encouraged me to improve quicker and not be held back by the equipment (which would then need upgrading).

A £2000 mtb isn’t going to hold you back at all though until you get to pro level competition.

And perhaps there isn’t really anything wrong with that.

I dont think there is anything wrong with it, in the slightest.

What difference does it make to the lives of an observer of an ATGNI type ? Absolutely none, other than spike some ingrained jealousy, certainly if the observer is provoking some sort of internal derision for the ATGNI’s ability to purchase the best kit.

Whether the ATGNI person uses/doesn’t use the equipment should have no bearing on what others think, whether they turn up to a commonly used area and do nothing more than get the gear out of the car and sit around drinking tea is irrelevant.

You should concentrate on using your equipment to the best of your abilities and take care of it, concentrate on that instead of provoking some internal jealousy emotion.

This seems like a Daily Mail readers issue.

It’s not jealousy. It makes me smile, rather than seeth with Northern Lefty rage.

☺

My ‘dream’ tourer cost £1500 and it’s in the garage.

Quite fancy a new MTB if  my limited skills ever justify it, but it’ll just be a more modern version of the old one, not an ego chariot.

I like seeing nice bikes out and about. I don’t care about the skill of the rider, as long as everyone’s having fun, who cares?

But it is a thing. And when it involves a certain type of individual, it can be very funny indeed.

This seems like a Daily Mail readers issue.

Is Daily Mail just a lazy synonym for bad? Surely the DM reader would celebrate needless consumption and rampant capitalism but the average Guardian reader would be the one to tut at the wasteful expenditure and superficial consumerism even if they are townhouse dwelling, Audi driving, IT consulting road biclycling…….etc.

Anyway knowing what you need also means knowing what you don’t need. In mountain biking terms a lot of European brands were certainly very guilty of producing range topping “super” bikes that were anything but. Often built with components that were completely unsuitable for purpose but hey, look, it’s 200grams lighter than your mate’s bike.

What difference does it make to the lives of an observer of an ATGNI type ? Absolutely none.

Unless it’s in a competition and they get in your way,now that really does piss me off.

People can spend what they like on kit,as long as they don’t think it’s going to somehow give them magical powers 😉

What difference does it make to the lives of an observer of an ATGNI type ? Absolutely none.

Well this was why I asked the question. If it doesn’t make a difference, then why is it a thing in the first place (to which the answer seems to be jealousy or envy).

I was interested to hear whether there was any other argument than that though, whether people felt that having the means to spend huge amounts of money on kit that your skill level doesn’t warrant was indicative of a wider material problem with society.

This came from a guy on a camera forum I frequent who stated that having had a passing interest in photography as a teenager, he was now, in his late 40s, going to get back into it.

He was posting how he had just gone out and bought a camera body and two lenses the total cost of which was around £12,500.

He was posting how he had just gone out and bought a camera body and two lenses the total cost of which was around £12,500.

I was going to post that hey, so what it’s his money. It’s not the same as a fast car, powerful motorbike or indeed chainsaw but what if that guy is gullible and compulsive and he was exploited by a cynical salesman?

But…. What really annoys me with ATGNI’s is the needless rush to set off on any downhill section at any random trail centre. They’ll see me and laddo pootling/blowing up a hill some distance away, on getting closer they’ll all smash 2 energy sachet things, chuck the litter on the floor and make sure they’re in front of us for the next red bull hardline section or however they describe it to Jeff in the office Monday morning. We will then spend the next downhill section spunking half a set of pads just to avoid running in to them.

Get out there and enjoy is what I say, that’s why laddo is on my 7 year old Frankenstein rebuilt spesh rather than 3 grands worth of latest gnarr machine.

It’s not always envy a mate of mine was atgni. He bought the best bike he could, when wasn’t fast upgraded everything, had no effect, bought the best clothes, no effect, best lights. He went through three xtr derailleurs because they were skipping after only a few weeks use. He’d buy a new one take it to shop to get it fixed bin the older one. Even though we were saying it’s cable stretch.

Eventually we got together and bought him a coaching session, which he never attended. His daughter now rides a very expensively kitted orange 5 and he’s not riding any more.

Come to peaslake on any Sunday, and you’ll see the perfect definition of atgni😁

On the flip side, it’s people outside, riding bikes, so it’s all good.

Just seems to me to be a thread based provoking a reaction..

Bit like the Daily Mail does.

Clearly by replying to it I’m tagged as being one.

As someone else mentioned, there’s a few cases where it’s justified. Generally people who act snobbishly to others for having cheaper gear than them, or those who buy gear that hinders them just because they see pros using it.

But usually it’s used by people to put down those who aren’t as talented or experienced as they are at a sport. Why should someone new to a sport use cheap gear if they can afford the good stuff?

Why shouldn’t someone new to the sport use a portable bike cleaner after a ride at Cannock? Their bike gets mucky as well, regardless of the speed they ride at.

What’s wrong with someone who’s a keen rider but a bit rubbish wearing expensive mtb shorts? Should they be wearing cheap football shorts from sports direct instead? Surely riding gear is about comfort and practicality, it’s nothing to do with performance or how fast you ride.

I think we should be more welcoming to people who are having a go. Having someone show off about their expensive bike is annoying, but so is someone showing off about how great a rider they are.

If you think about it, it’s a good thing. Some fool splashes out top dollar on gear they don’t need. If they’re a beginner, there’s a good chance they’ll give up after using it a couple of times then sell it off or give it away. That means a lot of that gear will end up in the hands of someone who will use it but couldn’t normally afford it. Even if it just gets thrown in the back of the garage and never use, it’s still pumping money into the industry, so shops, mechanics, SRAM, Shimano, etc have more money and will stay in business. If they do use it, well, good for them. If they are annoying dicks, they’d still be annoying dicks if they had cheaper gear.

It’s fine to have better gear than me. Hell, I enjoy looking at it at free bike porn. Just don’t assume you’re better than me because of it. I mean, you probably are better than me, but that would be the case if you were riding a 15 year old BSO. This is never a problem I’ve had on a bike though, because most (all?) riders I’ve met have been great people who are generally faster than me despite their age/bike.

Many years ago though, in a previous life, I used to be a windsurfing instructor and I’d spend my summers between uni terms teaching windsurfing in windy Egypt. Every so often you’d get someone show up with the latest windsurfing harness on the first day of their stay, and they’d demand a 6.5m sail and a 90L board to head out in the morning’s force 4. “Can you water start?” we’d ask. “Of course I can do not doubt my godlike ability” they’d say.

Hard not to say ‘told you so’ sometimes as you picked them out of the water half a mile downwind and took them back to the beach.