Podge. Buy secondhand. I always do when I can. You get twice as much for half the money.. if more people did this bike companies would see the dip in sales and start lowering their ridiculous prices.

Same top tube length
Slacker head tube angle on Blue Pig
Seriously better thought-out finishing detail on the frame on the Blue Pig (mud clearance, drop-outs, tidier position for rear brake caliper)

I'm an owner of OnOne and Ragley frames. I'd go Ragley if I were you.

OP- test ride them first. People on rides etc as you might go against the grain on sizing as well.

I bought a Ti456 once in 18"- expensive mistake.

Keep up the good work Brant. I actually prefer your no bullsh*t approach

if more people did this bike companies would see the dip in sales and start lowering their ridiculous prices.

Don't people sell secondhand because they have/are buying someting new then?

Don't see the point in brants reply. Usually he is helpful if a little aloof. Not doing a good pr job. Odd

Wish I could. Im the poor sod scavenging around the jumblesale on the next section ——->

Rupert and Phyllis are looking for a new place in countryside with a crash-pad in the city. They only have a budget of £700,000 to play with so it'll be pretty tight. 😯

Manchester couple Burt and Irene hora are looking for a two up-two down in the city with an allotment in Wythenshawe. They only have a budget of £70,000 to play with. We'd suggest hora studied harder at school and this program wouldn't be shown. 😆

Unless you are buying something then its warm and nice? 🙄

No Clubber, I think some posters touched on the truth.

Yeah thats right. But lets not divert attention from the topic.

I lol'd 😳

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/brant-build-me-a

I have a 456 with 130mm forks, seems ok. Largest size, with 70mm stem and I am 6'1". Tried to make it a longer/ faster riding bike opposed to my full sus.
Personally I am sure my Orange 5 is faster on the road, off the road and also a better climber, but obviously ££, so I havent really succeed in making the HT the bike I need it to be. It does seem to handle reasonably well though and for the price you can build a reasonable spec up for (Deore, SH forks etc…) you really cant go wrong.

The Ragley is a newer design and seems to correct a few issues such as chainsuck destroying the chain stay, but I have no idea where you can go and see one of these frames. Check out their websites.
Depends what you are used to but you may feel the head angle is too slack and will need to spend a bit of time re-calibrating your riding.
Also as above you are getting into the realms of considering quite a few other frames once in this price range.

Also, why go from 110mm to 160mm travel. There are a huge amount of forks with 140mm travel which are more than upto tough riding especially on a HT.

Finally and disappointingly, whichever you get (out of all listed above) it really wont improve or change your riding too much over the other.

pikes would be good – it's a long travel xc bike really 😉

I built up a Blue Pig a few weeks ago, riding it mostly in the Peak – really like it, it's kind of interesting because of its geometry, low front end, steep seat tube etc. I've ridden a 456 briefly as well. My take on the Pig with a Pike is that it's quite a heavy thing, goes up and downhill like an unstoppable steamroller, with just enough flex out back to sort of go over and around things effectively, but sort of loiters along flatter terrain like a sulky, whining teenager with his hands in his pockets.

If your local riding goes mostly up and down in a techy sort of way, I'd go for a Pig, but don't expect it to be light and sprinty. If you have more flattish singletracky stuff, then the 456 is going to be more of an all-rounder, I think. Then again, if you're going to stick a 160mm fork on whatever it is, you're probably not going to be building a light, agile, singletrack-friendly rapier of a bike whatever frame you use, are you?

Anyhow, that's my very average rider's take on it 😕

Well, based on my experience anyway, the Ragley'll climb and descend really well, be 'so, so' on flattish singletrack – the head angle's pretty slack – and pretty dispiriting on the road. Depends what matters most to you, how much road / flat stuff there is etc.

Where do you mostly ride?

Looking for same as you simon…I thought they were similar too but mr brant said that was 'bollocks'

I really fancied one as a commuter & for occasional off road. Sounds like on the road it will be a bit crap. With my 100mm forks I reckon I'll be sliding off the saddle onto the top tube. Still, might try one, think it would look good with a rack & basket.

As a fellow Bristoller who's had/got 456 and inbreds, I'd suggest that travel more in the region of 115mm is better suited to the local trails (which would point you towards the inbred) but that's not to say that the 456 would be bad, just maybe a fraction slack for the twisty stuff. Ymmv and it'll be great at trail centres with the longer travel.