I think a Norway situation is the optimum we can hope for but as I said my vote wasn’t based on the best economic outcome in the short or medium term it was much more about self determinism and the desire to reform at home first, the EU talk a good game but it’s all about number one in the end to truly drive reform we’d have to get in the deep end and are we really up for that? It’s shit or get off the potty time and so we got off.
I’m just not convinced it’s always about the cash, sometimes it really is about democracy and choosing whose neck you get to wring when things go wrong.

it will be the civil service and silk street that cut the deals.

I wouldn’t hold out much hope of every deal being done to the UK’s satisfaction/benefit within the timescale of 2 years, a friends uncle is some form of lawyer rather high up in the civil service and he’s been talking to the effect that it’s literally impossible to extract ourselves and ensure every point is covered, the knowledge and experience needed to do this incredibly involved and intricate process is no longer available within the current pool of avalible experience whilst also attempting to deal with the daily goings on of running the country.

Apparently we ain’t seen nothing yet 😕

And as this is unprecedented I think timescales will be extended. Remember solvency 2 the insurers said it couldn’t be done so the EU said fine whenever you’re ready. There is always a way.

Good point – there’s even an established mechanism to extend timescales in clause 50. The only question is whether the EU can be persuaded that it is in their interests to extend it.

I think most (all?) of us on the Remain side are intelligent enough to respect your reasons for voting the way you did, and I certainly have a lot of sympathy with them.

To those that voted to leave, I’m curious & I’m no expert (so that makes me exactly the type of person we should be listening to – according to Gove anyway) but an you please tell me how this is a good thing…

[url=https://flic.kr/p/JpHbu2]2016-06-26_07-09-37[/url] by Zach, on Flickr

I’m not defending the ‘out’ vote all but that chart is still higher than in 2013/2014.

Stuff fluctuates short-term. I guess it’s much further down the road that will count.

And no it’s it not a good thing.

It’s not. But it’s not going to happen despite what a number of experts say. Oh, wait…

It amuses me slightly that a number of vocal Leavists on Facebook et al are saying along the lines of ‘they said the economy would crash but look the market started to recover by the end of Friday’.

True enough but an economy takes over than 12 or so hours to tank and the FTSE isn’t the economy (although they are linked to an extent but we saw growth in the FTSE even when the economy was in recession). They might be right, we might get through this relatively unscathed but let’s assess in 6-12 months before crowing about how it was all scaremongering.

As a point of interest due to the drop in the pound the UK lost more money in a few hours than it paid into the EU in the last 15 years.

More worryingly though than sterling dropping or the FTSE is the downgrade in credit rating. The UK was one of the few countries in the world to come through the credit crunch with its AAA rating intact.

This allowed for cheap government borrowing and significantly aided the recovery. Again, in the space of a few short hours that’s gone too.

Yes, it’s far too early to say the economy is going to decline rapidly but various things are stacking up against it and only very careful management by Threadneedle St and the government will get us through. Trouble is the government is severely weakened and it’s going to be up to CMD in his last few weeks in charge to get this one right so he can leave and be remembered as the man who **** a dead pig and destroyed the UK but just about saved the economy.

@rone – it’s better than 13/14 because the Euro took a hit too, the pound/USD is the more telling one and that hasn’t been as bad in a very long time

So has anyone got a cost of Brexit calculator on the go?

The referendum itself must have cost several million, the stalling of investment which will now go on for b the next 2 years, the current paralysis of government.

The legal costs to negotiate the exit strategy, I think a lot of lawyers are about to make a very very large sum of money from the taxpayer

@kimbers-not on here but I asked that question weeks ago.

In terms of time and money how much is Brexit going to cost-purely in terms of recodifying our entire law and in parliamentary time to do the negotiations.

Sod all else will get done in parliament for at least two years other than A50 and the country does have plenty of other shit that needs dealing with and we have other stuff for the civil service to be getting on with but they’re going to be pretty busy too.

@mike – point taken but look at magnitude of drop between $/£ arounf 2008. Do you it will be worse?

When will we have passed the 0.4% of GDP that put EU contribution costs us, have we passed our already (even tho we are still paying it)

Who knows – and anytime those words come out my money is on YES

Certainty leads to stability leads to confidence.

Find me some of that and I might consider the pound a place worth investing

This is why the petition matters:

“A lot of things were said in advance of this referendum that we might want to think about again,” said the Conservative former Defence Minister Liam Fox.

Independent

Nothing to do with sore losers, more to do with the lies and misrepresentation

Love the poll in that express article on the referendum:

Do you think there will be another referendum?

i) No way! there would be public outcry.

ii) Possibly – I wouldn’t put anything past the government if they can argue enough people signed this.

Nothing to do with sore losers, more to do with the lies and misrepresentation

Precisely.

Oh no, I’m not disappointed,

Over 3.1million now.

MPs need to do their job now and start the debate on that advisory referendum.

All you leavers who reckon the petition is worthless, I tell you what, prove your convictions, join the movement, sign the petition.

Almost posted that on the wrong thread.

Over 3.1million now.

Just 12 million to go then…

@zokes

I like the other petitons more

Replay England Iceland if we lose
Refight the Battle of Hastings

We just had a Referendum, people on the internet don’t seem to be able to grasp the fact that you vote for things at a polling station not online

Also anyone can sign the petition, you just need to put in a postcode which takes seconds to lookup from anywhere in the world

We just had a Referendum, people on the internet don’t seem to be able to grasp the fact that you vote for things at a polling station not online

With 100’s of people feeling like they were lied to, others who decided to protest vote thinking it didn’t matter. For most people this was as close to mattering in a vote as they have come. Who cares, the backlash is starting maybe control isn’t worth it?

Just signed. If only to feel like I’m doing something whilst I am waiting for The Plan from the leave campaign.

I like the other petitons more

Replay England Iceland if we lose
Refight the Battle of Hastings

We just had a Referendum, people on the internet don’t seem to be able to grasp the fact that you vote for things at a polling station not online

Also anyone can sign the petition, you just need to put in a postcode which takes seconds to lookup from anywhere in the world

Not really, just something to do whilst I wait for The Plan from Tosspot Towers.

Feeling nervous about being held to account yet?

@MWS

Feeling nervous about being held to account yet?

Why would anybody? Like anonymous they are everyone and nobody when it really matters

spotted the chairs Zokes?

I hadn’t, but a bit of googling reveals the link…

Meanwhile, at Vote Leave HQ:

Jamba – petition equals democracy in action. Suck it up princess. 😉

As I understand it any UK resident and any GB citizen wherever live can vote – allows the disenfranchised to speak.

Jamba – petition equals democracy in action. Suck it up princess.

However the man who actually set up the petitions process , the actual process where after 100,000 votes it gets debated stated live on the Radio 4 this morning

“it doesnt matter how many signatures the petition gets it will not trigger a second referendum , the best it can hope for is to be debated in parliament”

democracy at work

Which is all it needs really.

It’s about giving remain leaning MPs the confidence to do the right thing in a parliamentary democracy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407
Well it’s been investigated for fake signatures, given it’s 30x the threshold of being looked at then …..

Nice, not only sore losers but seemingly willing to commit fraud in order to push their agenda….you couldn’t make it up.

No deviant, a lot of pressure to make sure it’s real… 30x the threshold for getting debated

Absolutely redicolous. This will question the very heart of how Democraticly voting system and everything around it.
I suppose you could always use your human right to appeal if over turned, as you have used that said Country’s voting system.
We wish we all could do this when the Elected party you didn’t want to be in Goverment and ask for a re vote.

I don’t like decision to leave, but the democratic process WAS the referendum.

To be upset now that politicians may have misrepresented the facts (no shit Sherlock!) or that some people didn’t realise the consequences of their leave vote, or not realise that it wasn’t an antiTory protest vote, where were these people when the Remain campaign needed active support before the referendum.

And even if we could turn back time and rerun it, how the hell can we do that now without looking like spineless morons? Hardly a great position to be trying to argue EU reform or new trade deals from.

Plus, I hated the way the EU made Ireland have another referendum to get the “right” result. Let’s not lower ourselves to that.

Sad day for British democracy when the losing side feel they have the right to a 2nd go at it. Maybe the remain side should have not been complacent and got out and fought a more positive campaign. Lost fair and square so suck it up and stop embarrassing yourselves. Oh, and to those of you who didn’t know what you were voting for. Ignorance is no defence.

deviant – Member
Nice, not only sore losers but seemingly willing to commit fraud in order to push their agenda….you couldn’t make it up.

Irony alert.

Sad day for British democracy when the losing side feel they have the right to a 2nd go at it. Maybe the remain side should have not been complacent and got out and fought a more positive campaign.

Yep telling the truth and all that