[Closed] Young People

Same as it's always been just last time you were there you were looking up.

Not convinced about that to be honest. I was a pretty obnoxious git when I was young but I'm still pretty sure I was nowhere near the level of what I've recently experienced. I at least had a basic respect for my elders and listened to what they told me, even if I did think they were dinosaurs (I was wrong obviously).

We need some details for context.
I would tend towards your view.
Being a grumpy old sod becomes an entitlement when you get to a certain age.

Context: Graduate starts job following uni with a first class masters, thinks he's above basic processes that everyone else in the company adheres to (timesheets, reporting to managers, timekeeping etc), then when challenged on it goes running to senior managers to complain, threatens to quit, and raises HR grievances for 'bullying'. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It does not help when the media keeps saying how good they are and they actually believe their own hype ... 😆

I bet they think texting and checking mobile phone, while walking, are important skills set.

I think you might need to text him/her otherwise s/he cannot handle face-to-face instruction ... 😆

1st class means jack all if they cannot communicated like human.

I work every day with 15-25 year olds, some I get to know pretty well, others just in passing. The main difference between them and how I remember my generation, is just that they're not so inclined to stay silent and be told. They can be told to do but they want to understand why and they want it to make sense.

And that's good imo, it's probably also very annoying but they're less tolerant of "just because" and they're certainly not buying "but we've always done that way", because they're picking through the changes wrought by the last generation and seeing that a fair bit of it is clearly rubbish, and they're seeing the effects of disruptive technology everywhere and understand on a fundamental level that "we've always done it that way" doesn't work any more. If my generation had been more switched on in this way we'd be living in a better country. [i]And[/i] we'd have annoyed our parents more.

I definitely don't like to hear "entitled", when mostly all they're asking for is the same things the last couple of generations take for granted. Oh these snowflakes, wanting job security, a home of your own, air you can breathe without a mask.

dazh - Member
Context: Graduate starts job following uni with a first class masters, thinks he's above basic processes that everyone else in the company adheres to (timesheets, reporting to managers, timekeeping etc), then when challenged on it goes running to senior managers to complain, threatens to quit, and raises HR grievances for 'bullying'. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Or it could read graduate with first class masters expected to enter a dynamic work environment but finds their efforts constrained by processes....

Or it could read crushing reality of everyday working life frustrates graduate who has been told for 20 odd years that the workplace is something different than it really is...

For most people the let down of their first job out of uni is pretty crushing having made a poor job selection based on no experience. Some make it through and others quit and reevaluate the situation. Young people today may have more flexibility to quit than they did 30 years ago but for the last 20 years it's been the same headline

I must admit the fist time I was told to change my timesheet so it reflected somebodies spending plan not the work done to justify a self defeating set of forecasting and accounting practices that in themselves were obviously detrimental to the business as a whole and resulted in gross inefficencies and phrases like we have to spend the budget....pissed me off a bit. But hey thats how it always is right, don't rock the boat son and you too can carry on this fine tradition of doing what we always done. 😉

Be interested if the senior management gave him the time of day or told to suck it up or piss off?

I had a few friends who were a bit 'entitled' back when I was that age. Wouldn't do a bar/shop job as they had a high level degree etc but they quickly learned that the world doesn't work like that! Almost always they had been supported financially by the bank of mum and dad up to that point. Th same seems to be true now with the youngsters I see through work and such now, except there seems to be a lot more of them. I put it down to a few things:

* More parents are supporting their kids through uni rather than them having to work in a bar/shop so they don't gain any life experience.
* The education system is massively academically focused so students come out of the end lacking crucial life skills and with unrealistic expectations - walking out of uni into a top paying job for example.
* Society has conditioned them on being able to get all the trappings of life easily on credit rather than earning them.
* The reality of their degree only getting them through the door into a job but still having to start at the bottom, housing being unaffordable for many and the fact that they're probably not the greatest thing since sliced bread hits them so hard that they cannot cope.

A bright young person with a good idea of how the world really works is a wonderful thing but they are getting fewer and harder to find IMO. Just look at the amount of self-entitled parents around and you realise that their kids will most likely have the same attitude. Slightly depressing when you think about it.

* Society has conditioned them on being able to get all the trappings of life easily on credit rather than earning them.

I'd be more concerned if a new graduate didn't kick off about bullshit procedures and bureaucracy. Time sheets being a prime example. Last job we left it to the secretary who coloured in the attendance sheet so it has a pretty parttern.

Context: Graduate starts job following uni with a first class masters, thinks he's above basic processes that everyone else in the company adheres to (timesheets, reporting to managers, timekeeping etc), then when challenged on it goes running to senior managers to complain, threatens to quit, and raises HR grievances for 'bullying'. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I think this particular graduate may have a misplaced sense of self importance.

Much as I love a sweeping generalisation, this is not something that applies to all young people.

Milkey - so it hasn't changed and parents share (some of) the blame - the only different being quantity. True, more people go to Uni. So.....

On entitlement, my generation had a sense that they were entitle to free tertiary education. Low income segments even supported middle and higher income families in this. BIzarre concept. Now real choices have to be made, althiugh we are still waiting for students and Unis to respond appropriately, some good private sector initiatives already eg, shorter more vocational courses rather than the stuck in the mud model.

IME far more students are gaining true work experience (and are under considerable pressure to so rather than my generation who went interailing and bumming round Asia in the holidays. I would argue that this is not a good thing FWIW

It's far harder to get good jobs now and the process is far more intense . Mini THM had 8 interviews for a two day unpaid wrong experience this summer with interviews that matched those of his older brother as a grad.

The older generation are the ones who binged in credit. Young people don't have that luxury as they have used that option up during their Uni days

Most grads I hire are very able, very hard working and have much better skills than I did/do

^ just for balance

(Plus there was the folly of getting rid of Polytechnics due to a misplaced inferiority complex - but the state loves to screw up ediucation)

I was a mentor on the RBS graduate scheme for a couple of years - it's not a new thing.

Kids are told from the age of 4 that education is the most important thing in the world and that a good education is the one and only path to power and riches and they'd spend the first 21-24 years of their life banging away at it whilst some of their friends sacked it off and got jobs or settled for a 2:2 in media studies or whatever, but no, they stayed on the straight and narrow and got a 1st in something hard and ended up in the RBS Grad scheme which was tough to get on, very tough only to find they'd be lied to. They weren't going to get an assistant to do all the stuff that was a waste of their intellect, they weren't going to be invited to high-level meetings with important clients, mostly they were going to sit and learn from people who'd been doing it for 10-30 years because in a fast paced industry the stuff you learned in your first year of Uni was out of date by year 2. There was this terrible feeling that their long expensive adult education might have been wasted as they were working with non-grads who joined entry level roles at 18 and had 3-4 years experience now.

It's not their fault, and it's not a generational thing - this relatively new idea that young people of "over entitled" is almost laughable as it usually comes from a boomer whose generation might as well come with the title "well why bloody shouldn't I!".

Truth is the same as it's always been, young people are a pain to work with because they haven't yet developed the social skills and EQ that comes with maturity - they're a square peg in a round hole socially and it rubs everyone they work with up the wrong way.

OPs guy sounds like a knob, but I'd bet whilst he comes across as arrogant, he probably feels completely overwhelmed and is too worried to ask for help.

Well said !

Pjay makes good points. The majority of grads and students at our place are great. Always good to have fresh eyes on an established environment to keep you on your toes. Nothing wrong with challenging the status quo.

Having gone through a grad scheme I'd say a lot of the problem is in the job advert. They all promise the earth telling the applicant they need to be outstanding. Then the job doesn't live up to the hype.

What industry? In science if they dont come in questioning everything we've probably hired the wrong person imo.

p-jay and nrthwind are bang on the money.

This sums it up
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU

When I was about 12, my dad took me into work with him for a few days. I remember him telling me in the car on the way there, "This is the real world. Get used to it."
It probably had the opposite affect of what he'd intended as I was so scared by the whole experience (it was a frantically busy advertising agency) that I stayed in higher education for as long as possible to avoid the real world.
I'd chime in that many young people have been bought up in a culture which is more centered on emotions/emotional health. That is good insofar as repressing stuff is not healthy, but it can be taken to an extreme, hence the "snowflake" syndrome.
Also, it's incredibly important to learn to laugh things off and not give a shit.

I make it my business to upset graduates and basically anyone under 30 that thinks they know better than me how things work

I've had them working for hours in the evening and weekends to counter my argument only to be met with a new point when they next email me. normally take 2 emails to break them.

Makes my life complete so it does 😀

I agree with some of the sentiments above, I'm surprised young people aren't having a revolution after the way us oldies have completely screwed em over and mortgaged their future away.
The most entitled people I've seen are middle aged and above, they had it all on a plate and now want to stop anyone else having the same slice of the pie cos they royalty ****ed it up along the way..
And now we're entering the age of stupid were facts are just inconvenient and lies are becoming the truth they're proper ****ed!
I blame Thatcher..

Aged 16 I did some basic work for my dad's business to earn some pocket/holiday money. I was assigned to the accounts department and given the job of transferring basic data from timesheets to job cards. I was told it normally took a week to complete. Went down to the old man's' office on second morning to tell him that I had already finished - he smiled, noted the time taken, and suggestedthat it might be politic to avoid making it obvious that the accounts team were remarkably inefficient. He had a word with them later!!

Young eyes can be v valuable!!

Loved the Simon Sinek video, sums it up very well, the most pertinent point for me being the "total lack of leadership".
It's all over this thread, and in the work places, in government, everywhere.
Basic leadership of the self, and of others.
'Millenials' need support and guidance, like every other generation entering the world before it. Like we did. They don't need 'breaking', being told 'this is how it is', or 'I didn't get this, so why should you?'.

The problem is less of a perceived entitlement, but more one of envy by older generations, a kind of 'welcome to the grind, suck it up snowflake', aimed at a generation who have grown up in unprecedented luxury.

I've had graduates on teams, some with difficult attitudes. I just listen and learn, find compromise, and guide. Everyone can benefit from fresh ideas, energy, and the absence of cynicism.

I'd guess the OPs case is similar to the "all cyclists are knobs cos they jump red lights" argument - it's not true, it's just that there is a certain proportion of knobs in the world, and some of them happen to ride bikes/be young people.

FWIW I was definitely more knobbish when I was young - I suspect most people were!

barkm has it. Management 101 if you need to formally discipline or bollock someone in your team you have failed at your job as a manager.

I agree with some of the sentiments above, I'm surprised young people aren't having a revolution after the way us oldies have completely screwed em over and mortgaged their future away.

It's coming, don't worry.

I'm not sure how this Boomers v Millennials thing came about (forgetting about X & Y in the middle, I guess we all spent the 90s necking Es and are too strung out to care anymore).

But we shouldn't assume 'Millennials' are all young, their generation starts at 1984 according to the smug cockbag in that video - which means the early ones are 33ish? that's 15 years worth of voters - the greatest challenges they face are often seen as the 'fault' of the Boomer generation (the battle lines were drawn by the Boomers, not them) they're 53 to 71 - 18 years worth of voters but with population growth I would guess their numbers are broadly equal now.

Politicians, despite all the sleazy back room deals with media barons and all that crap do blow with the wind - all the major parties are polling constantly (not in their own name) to get a feel for how the country is feeling to draft policies accordingly - June's election came as a big shock to a lot of people, it was never meant to be that close and it was that close because of a big surge in young people voting.

Can you imagine how Tory HQ feel about it? In 5 years time they'll be going into battle again, by then 5 years worth of their core vote will die or be too infirm to vote, whereas Labour will gain 5 years worth of voters.

There's this idea that people vote Labour with their heart when they're young, but vote Tory with their head when they reach middle age and have something to lose - but I don't think that's true, they did, but not because they grew hard and middle class, no, their generation went mental with the workers rights in the 70s because they felt hard done by (ring any bells) until we nearly went broke.

They face a dying core, a X&Y middle ground who believed in New Labour and would vote for them again if they promise not to bankrupt us or start some horrible war again and a young generation who despise them. They're going to have to start working for the younger generation or die.

The problem is less of a perceived entitlement, but more one of envy by older generations, a kind of 'welcome to the grind, suck it up snowflake', aimed at a generation who have grown up in unprecedented luxury.

I don't think that this is correct. The older generation has failed the younger generation with bad parenting - any time you hear "we're not like father and son, more best friends" you can see this failure. The younger generation have grown up in unprecedented luxury, that they have done nothing to earn. Now that they are at a stage when they should be adults, having never been told "no" or denied something they think that is how the world is. In the real world, outside of [i]The Rich Kids Of xxxxx[/i] on Instagram, you don't get something unless you go out and earn the money for it. This is a lesson that good parents try to teach early on, when it isn't such a shock. The spoilt/entitled millennials are hearing "no" for the first time when they hit working age, when it is very hard for them to deal with.

The current younger generation have less of some things than their parents - suck it up - my generation don't have final salary pensions and jobs for life, unlike the generation before us, we took loans for living costs as students, unlike the generation before us who got grants. Etc, Etc. That will always happen and get worse when we have people so keen to spend tomorrow's money on themselves today.

IME it's not a generational thing, it's a young person thing. A lot of graduates and school leavers simply haven't had to work in an office environment before.

It's all well and good saying having a job beforehand prepares them for a life of work, but working behind a bar or in a shop don't give them the skills required in a more demanding work environment.

Essentially it comes down to a lack of understanding - both on the part of the new employee, who doesn't appreciate things like timekeeping, dress codes, not using your phone every six seconds etc - and the employer, who doesn't appreciate how unprepared for a work environment the new employee is.

Sandwich - Member
barkm has it. Management 101 if you need to formally discipline or bollock someone in your team you have failed at your job as a manager.

Not in my experience. I'd agree as a general sentiment, but sometimes you simply get those people who will not or can not be managed - persistent unexplained absences, substance abuse, mental health issues, just bell ends- for some limited examples.

Graduate starts job following uni with a first class masters, thinks he's above basic processes that everyone else in the company adheres to (timesheets, reporting to managers, timekeeping etc), then when challenged on it goes running to senior managers to complain, threatens to quit, and raises HR grievances for 'bullying'. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

As a manager I can tell you without any doubt that has nothing to do with his age.

barkm has it. Management 101 if you need to formally discipline or bollock someone in your team you have failed at your job as a manager.

Well Barkm is right but you're not and it's not what he said.

However recent experiences at work (long story!) has lead me to think that a lot of them are a bunch of entitled, immature little shits.

To me the Baby Boomers versus Millennials (lucky versus entitled) is the same type of conflict that politicians and the media are forcing on us with working class versus Middle class (benefit scroungers versus rich) which then allows us to forgot about the Elite who are racing away with everyone's cash and destroying general society.
As a member of generation X I envy little of the hand that Millennials have been dealt.

johndoh - Member

When I was starting out I would work late, I would work all weekend, I would do what I could to prove my worth.

And that's stockholm syndrome. Sometimes you might have to work late but you're proud of it. In fact you seem to think it's how it should be and anyone not doing it is wrong. It's a rubbish way of "proving your worth" but a good way of getting taken up the bum by bad managers. And what will they get for it? An expectation of working late and weekends. And then they'll be told that it's them that's "entitled" for not wanting to work extra hours for free.

but sometimes you simply get those people who will not or can not be managed - persistent unexplained absences, substance abuse, mental health issues, just bell ends

Who selects these people for the working environment? They don't self select.

Remember mental health is covered by discrimination legislation and work needs to make suitable adjustment to the environment to allow the sufferer to continue 'as far as is reasonably practicable'.

they expect so much sometimes, barely ever put in more than is the basic expectation (ie, only under severe duress would they consider coming in early or working late to complete a job - and we barely ever ask, but even when we do it falls on deaf ears). When I was starting out I would work late, I would work all weekend, I would do what I could to prove my worth.

My employers only ever pay me what my contract states they will, why on earth would I choose to work any more hours than I'm contracted to?

I prove my worth with the quality of work I produce within those hours. This seems entirely reasonable to me, but then I am a millennial so perhaps I'm just entitled...

has lead me to think that a lot of them are a bunch of entitled, immature little shits.

And this is different from previous generations how?

In fact you seem to think it's how it should be

My employers only ever pay me what my contract states they will, why on earth would I choose to work any more hours than I'm contracted to?

That's what our team get. Fair enough if you don't get that sort of fair treatment from your employers – then I would do more than required either.

^ sentiments above about doing nothing other than required are great. Gives sensible grads a massive edge.

Smart grads and undergrads doing work experience (including both mini THMs) understand from the start that to succeed your attitude is: how do I make the lives of the seniors around me easier; how can I help; what do you need? Others (having gone through the effort of getting the experience) do the minimum. Guess who gets the job at the end? Guess who moans, life's not fair?

We are in a very competitive environment. Most grads get this and work very hard and understand their role in making the lives of senior staff easier. Those that don't, rarely survive or step down into easier, less demanding jobs. That's their perogative

Having said that I did have to force some of my best grads to go home occassioanally last year, to protect them. They often sneaked back after I had left though 😯

We are a fair employer and pay good rates yet they expect so much sometimes, barely ever put in more than is the basic expectation (ie, only under severe duress would they consider coming in early or working late to complete a job

<shrug>

My first experience of work aged 16 included standing in a crowd around the timecard punch clock at the end of the day, waiting for it to tick round to 4pm before clocking out so you'd get paid for the extra quarter-hour.

These were guys that would've been born in the 50's and 60's - blagging it/entitlement is not something that has been invented recently

you got old; it happens.

you are undoubtedly getting more right wing too. you may not think so but all those youngsters wanting what took you a lifetime of hard graft to accrue

it was ever so.

perhaps...

True story.

A couple of years back, I was cycling through Catford on my regular commute when I punctured a tyre and had to pull my bike onto the pavement to fix it. It was a dark evening, I was pulling a repair kit out of my Camelbak when I noticed a bunch of hooded yoofs appear around me.

"Nice bike mate" said one.

"Got a puncture innit" said another.

All sorts of things ran through my head. I thought for a brief moment that I was about to be relieved of my bike.

"Punctures suck, man. Do you need some help?" said a third, the largest of the group.

So there I was, a middle aged man surrounded by a group of teenagers who did a brilliant job at fixing my inner tube and getting me on my way.

Bloody broken Britain. Etc.

We are a fair employer and pay good rates yet they expect so much sometimes, barely ever put in more than is the basic expectation (ie, only under severe duress would they consider coming in early or working late to complete a job

Fair and severe duress? Bit of a contradiction.

You're cooperate events must be rewards for hard work surely not to put them under duress to work longer than they should?

Sandwich - Member
Who selects these people for the working environment? They don't self select.

Remember mental health is covered by discrimination legislation and work needs to make suitable adjustment to the environment to allow the sufferer to continue 'as far as is reasonably practicable'.

Yes, but like anything it is not immediately apparent if an ostensibly capable worker is actually a workshy layabout with a substance abuse problem.

Having managed a few of the above in my time I speak with experience!

As to mental health, I'm fully aware of that but in one particular case all reasonable adjustments were offered but the employee in question simply wasn't capable of functioning in a work environment for any length of time. There's no "fault" issues there, simply that they were not capable of functioning effectively or by that corollary being managed.

Speaking as a "boomer" now retired, I don't think my parents were particulary interested in me and I was just generally left to get on with things myself. I was out and about in the World from what would these days be considered a criminally young age. That was not just my parents, all the kids in my area were the same. For instance, at infants school, it was very rare for parents to accompany their kids to school and I'm not talking about some remote village, this was the suburbs of London. That gave me a very independant attitude which seems to be lacking in the current generation(s).

Nowadays it seems like parents are much more hands-on especially both sexes and children seem to get very little leeway to be put in harms way. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, it's just different these days.

We have two grown grandsons who are in their 20s and are what you might call the archetypal ****less millenials. Most of our friends also are having similar problems with their offspring as well. Is that the parents fault? I think that's just too simplistic.

I think everyone is struggling to come to terms with a World which seems to be changing so rapidly.

Because when you ask if you can leave early because you are going somewhere they say yes? Because when you ask to take driving lessons during work hours they say yes? Because you get treated to monthly social events and annual overnight fun experiences such as via ferrata? Because they regularly treat the whole team to nights out with all food and drink supplied? Etc, etc, etc.

That's what our team get. Fair enough if you don't get that sort of fair treatment from your employers – then I would do more than required either.

In my experience of several employers the reverse almost always seems to be the case. Working late and weekends when required to overcome some crisis or meet some deadline always seems to be the norm. When you want a day off for something important to you it's like you have asked them to donate a kidney.

I'd forgotten the phone thing. Mr entitled graduate spends most of the day jabbing at his phone. No doubt chatting to his mates on whatsapp (or whatever is the in-vogue app these days) about what an ogre his manager is. I'm in no way painting all grads with the same brush. I have another (couple of years in now) who's great. He still does stupid stuff but he at least listens when you give him some advice. What made me laugh is that when he spoke to HR I was told he used the words 'I want that guy to be fired'. 😀

When I was starting out, having not already accumulated a pile of debt, I had a reasonable expectation that hard work would be rewarded with a stable career, pension, and the means to buy a home. That isn't the case any more, and the younger generation know it, so what is the point of them investing time and effort that results only in making older people better off?

rather than my generation who went interailing and bumming round Asia in the holidays.

i guess i must be of a similar generation and i worked on a chicken farm or a building site in the summer break.
i’m thankful for being of the generation that doesn't have to pay 40k for an education (i had a grant and the very first student loan which ended up being £1600 in total!)

i worked very hard at art college and left with a stack of work to show for my efforts that got me jobs as an assistant to other photographers and i ‘did my time’ learning how the real world of work was done post education.

i get college leavers coming to see me looking for work and i’m appalled at what they have to show me for their 3-5 years of study, literally what i was producing in a week. i feel like saying “is that all you have? what exactly were you doing at college?

the other thing is they are now consumers of education and paying handsomely for it, this has meant they feel they can complain if things dont go the way they think they should. my old tutor said: "they now get their parents involved, these are supposed to be adults i’m teaching?!”

they are a bunch of snowflakes, i kind of feel sorry for them as they are a product of society and the age of narcissism that we now live in.

That isn't the case any more

Is it? When I graduated in 96 it wasn't much different. Sure I didn't have a 40k debt, but it was still just as hard to find a decent job. Many of my mates were working in garden centres and pubs a couple of years after graduating. I didn't find a decent job til I was 24.

so what is the point of them investing time and effort that results only in making older people better off?

That's never been any different either. Older people have always been richer than younger people, for very obvious reasons.

Is it? When I graduated in 96 it wasn't much different. Sure I didn't have a 40k debt...

A £40k debt doesn't count as "much different"? What planet are you on? That's before we get onto the job market, current house prices and rents.

I graduated in '99, btw.

That's never been any different either. Older people have always been richer than younger people, for very obvious reasons.

Of course its different. Younger people have less opportunity than they did.

A £40k debt doesn't count as "much different"? What planet are you on?

I have massive sympathy for that and firmly of the view that fees should be abolished. But it doesn't justify a sense of entitlement or a view that they're much worse off than their elders. We had plenty of challenges which were unique to the time, just as they do now. I suppose I find it difficult to take too seriously the complaints of a 20 year old who's decked out in designer clothes and a £1000 mobile phone.

Of course its different. Younger people have less opportunity than they did.

well at the moment, for a little while, they have freedom of movement round the EU, although this was so important to them that they couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides to vote to keep it.

And they have help-to-buy - and house prices are not so unreacheable everywhere in the UK.

And they have super-low interest rates.

There's probably more - but a recent LBC phone-in show had many people saying how they had to work multiple jobs in the 70s in order to afford a house, etc.

they are a bunch of snowflakes, i kind of feel sorry for them as they are a product of society and the age of narcissism that we now live in.

Utter bullshit. You're talking individuals there is absolutely no difference whatever a persons age, some think they are more entitled than others. As some of the responses on here demonstrate with the "Oooh we had it tougher". It's like a monty python sketch.

well at the moment, for a little while, they have freedom of movement round the EU, although this was so important to them that they couldn't be bothered to get off their backsides to vote to keep it.

You know that turned out to be a myth, right?

We had plenty of challenges which were unique to the time, just as they do now. I suppose I find it difficult to take too seriously the complaints of a 20 year old who's decked out in designer clothes and a £1000 mobile phone.

I've had a series of apprentices through the office over the last ten years, and they have, without exception, been fantastic young people, all of whom went on to get better jobs elsewhere.

the age of narcissism

I like that. It fits very well with selfie culture and FB/instagram It's all about how things look.

My london tenants are young professionals. Ultra pinickity about everything moving in, pay their rent promptly, dont lift a finger for 2-3 years cleaning anything, walk away expecting their full deposit back.

Last lot just did not think of the consequences of their actions. Their damage claim, successfully settled, was about 2 months salary. I d have been tearing my hair out if it were my loss.

My london tenants are young professionals. Ultra pinickity about everything moving in, pay their rent promptly, dont lift a finger for 2-3 years cleaning anything, walk away expecting their full deposit back.

My landlord rented me a damp house with shonky heating, and stole my deposit.

In other news, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Deposit theft cannot happen now due to the protected deposits scheme, i had to provide evidence to settle my claim. Damp houses and poor heating i assume you actually inspected the house before taking it. Most damp issues i have experienced were tenant lifestyle.

dazh - Member

I suppose I find it difficult to take too seriously the complaints of a 20 year old who's decked out in designer clothes and a £1000 mobile phone.

That's really pretty simple- if big expensive aspirational things are beyond your reach- a house, paying off your tens of thousands of pounds of student loan- then it's easy to spend money. Saving the cost of an iphone won't get you a house or get you out of debt. And when the things you want get further away as fast as you can save then what's saving doing for you?

(this is why I got my first expensive bike- I could have banked it and watched house prices increase at several times my pay rate did, or I could spend it on something obtainable)

Basically it's orders of magnitude. I get where you're coming from but it doesn't really make sense to judge people for having nice small things when they can't have the big things.

We have quite a few young people in work, some are great some are not. About the same ratio as any other age group.

You know that turned out to be a myth, right?

About 64% of registered voters aged 18-24 went to polls, study reveals, but 90% of over-65s voted

even if you believe that - it only asked just over 2000 people so only just significant - they were still lazier than the over 65s, who very likely had to make more of an effort to get up and vote, considering their age and the state of physical fitness than older people seem to let themselves get into.

Damp houses and poor heating i assume you actually inspected the house before taking it. Most damp issues i have experienced were tenant lifestyle.

Ah, so damp and shonky heating are the tenant's fault? Yes, I inspected the house. In August. Anyway, my point is that there are good and bad tenants, and good and bad landlords. It's not an age thing.

even if you believe that - it only asked just over 2000 people so only just significant - they were still lazier than the over 65s

About 64% of registered voters aged 18-24 went to polls, study reveals, but 90% of over-65s voted

I thought the bigger issue was that most 18-24 year olds weren't even registered to vote...

they were still lazier than the over 65s, who very likely had to make more of an effort to get up and vote, considering their age and the state of physical fitness than older people seem to let themselves get into.

😯

However recent experiences at work (long story!) has lead me to think that a lot of them are a bunch of entitled, immature little shits.

I'm 29 - my team at work is very young - QA Officers ranging from 21 years of age to senior QAs of about 30.

They are hard working, but I find them to be overly obsessed about work, cliquey and none of them have any respect for one another - it is a constant bitch fest and what is more they don't show any respect for the QP's either. Because the senior QAs are so close in age to the QA Officers - whilst the QPs are much older, what has happened is that the leadership style has gone down the route of "self-managing teams".....so a bunch of 20 year olds are basically constantly fighting among themselves like baboons over the social etiquette of the pack.

I prefer working with older, been around the block slightly cynical teams who have families and care for each other a little bit.

Really though, I'd just a job where I don't have to interact with anyone other than my wife.

When I was starting out I would work late, I would work all weekend, I would do what I could to prove my worth.

Then you were a mug, and you still are a mug if someone has to 'prove' their worth by working stupid hours in your eyes.

Because you get treated to monthly social events and annual overnight fun experiences such as via ferrata? Because they regularly treat the whole team to nights out with all food and drink supplied? Etc, etc, etc.
That's what our team get. Fair enough if you don't get that sort of fair treatment from your employers – then I would do more than required either.

Ah, so it's fair treatment, with conditions. Sounds great.

I don't know what QAs and QPs are, that proves I'm old and Tom is young. The OP is obviously old too as he talks about "Young People" rather than YPs.

don't know what QAs and QPs are, that proves I'm old and Tom is young. The OP is obviously old too as he talks about "Young People" rather than YPs.

OP is an OP?

Sorry, pharma lingo.

Quality Assurance Officers and Qualified Persons. A Qualified Person is for the layman - essentially the person with the final say that a drug batch is safe to be released to market. Becoming a Qualified Person is about as expensive as getting your MBA - and it comes with a lot of responsibility that can essentially see you ending up in prison if you make a mistake.

For balance (for those of you making generalisations):

-I'm 21
-Starting 4th year of an MEng
-Work hard at uni to get grades that give me access to placements and scholarships
-Work every summer on a relevant placement (this year was a research job for a major wind power manufacturer)
-Money from scholarships and placements goes in to bank account (once necessary bike bits have been bought) and careful accounting sees me through the rest of the year (just) on that money with no debt
-Still manage to get out plenty/have friends/have somehow managed to attract a mate

We're not all entitled wee snowflakes 😆

However were I an employer, there are plenty folks on my course/similar that I would never, ever hire as they fit the "millennial" mould portrayed by this thread. There are also plenty older folks who I've worked for/with that as an employer I would also not hire as they're equally useless.

I think your "generation" is about as relevant as your shoe size in this case - some folks are good to work with and others are not.

However were I an employer, there are plenty folks on my course/similar that I would never, ever hire as they fit the "millennial" mould portrayed by this thread. There are also plenty older folks who I've worked for/with that as an employer I would also not hire as they're equally useless.

You see, this is what differentiates 21 year olds from 40 somethings.

Older people with more experience understand that actually - there are very few people who are useless at their jobs, but a lot of people who are weak in a few areas yet very strong in others. The young people I work with, bitch about other peoples weak points (even about the Qualified Persons who have 25 odd years under their belts). When in reality, you should value people for their strong points and try to utilise them for your own benefit.

Stating that you've got an masters in engineering, that you've done loads of summer placements...and somehow....managed to get a girlfriend as well....demonstrates exactly the same kind of arrogance that I have come to loathe. In fact, actually if I was an employer - I'd be looking for young graduates who'd gotten 2:2s, knocked a bird up and been kicked out their parents house - because you can mold those people.

If I compare with the opportunities my son has and those I had the only advantage he has is wealthier parents who are more prepared to pay to help him achieve his ambitions.

In terms of what society provides he's worse off. In terms of his earning potential for a equivalent level of qualification he's worse off. Getting qualifications will cost him (me) more and he'll be older by the time they equal employment opportunities.

In terms of his attitude, he's a lot better informed. satelite TV in multiple languages through his youth, better travelled, Internet access to any information he needs, better communications. He's learned enough to know that the masters of this world - Google, Microsoft, Murdoch, Bouygues (TF1), EDF, and wealthy baby boomers are his enemies/adversaries in a winner grabs all, dog eat dog world. Who wouldn't be a revolutionary ! Anyhow, he(s channeling his revolutionary tendancies through conformist channels at Sciences Po and will then change the world... .

Stating that you've got an masters in engineering, that you've done loads of summer placements...and somehow....managed to get a girlfriend as well....demonstrates exactly the same kind of arrogance that I have come to loathe. In fact, actually if I was an employer - I'd be looking for young graduates who'd gotten 2:2s, knocked a bird up and been kicked out their parents house - because you can mold those people.

Statements of fact don't amount to arrogance.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather hire folks that have got through on the bare minimum whilst making naive decisions with huge consequences (you could argue due to their sense of entitlement)? Good luck to you. Hope your moulding skills are top notch, as I wouldn't want a workforce that operates like that. Would be an amusing job advert though I'll grant you 😆

Yeah how dare you state what you've achieved.

I'd be looking for young graduates who'd gotten 2:2s, knocked a bird up and been kicked out their parents house - because you can mold those people.

🙄

Because when you ask if you can leave early because you are going somewhere they say yes? Because when you ask to take driving lessons during work hours they say yes? Because you get treated to monthly social events and annual overnight fun experiences such as via ferrata? Because they regularly treat the whole team to nights out with all food and drink supplied? Etc, etc, etc.
That's what our team get. Fair enough if you don't get that sort of fair treatment from your employers – then I would do more than required either.

If I need some time off (and I don't want to use holidays) I just work it back another day - an hour for an hour. This seems both fair and reasonable.

If I worked an extra hour a day at your place, would I get an extra day off every fortnight? If not, it sounds like the employer is getting the better deal.

All the other stuff is fairly inconsequential, time off to do the things I want to do is much more important to me than work social events.

Yeah how dare you state what you've achieved.

Loads of kids get decent degrees, loads grt work experience and placements (like me). Lots can barely afford the former, let alone the latter.

I thought the post was a classic example of what I see often, criticising other colleagues whilst quoting their degree all without having any awareness of ones own faults. I do see that a lot amongst younger workers.