[Closed] Yesterdays shooting & todays protest.

don't care what race or religion lives in my street

Completely agree.

Which is why the constant, incessant, playing of the race card by Jambers is so unpleasant.

gobuchul - Member

God help you if you ever meet a true racist.

Well obviously I've never met one. What are they like, and why would God have to help me?

jimjam the answer to your question is zero , but if a man is shot who has not himself fired it is easy to understand why his family and indeed society would need to understand the circumstances and reason for his killing . Not simply accepting the death without question.

It's equally basic stuff to actually search google yourself

That word isn't a magic spell which will make opinions you disagree with disappear, nor will it make the people who hold them vanish.

Why thanks you Sherlock you are proper high brow sort arent you

It has been bandied about by regressive leftist ideologues so much that it has lost any and all substance.

God help you if you ever meet a real racist.

Its interesting to see how this place is mirroring the real world as the loony RW and the racists amongst them slip from out of the shadows to spread and speak their ideology more openly
Also interesting to read that even the racist deny its racist to constantly play the race card on Muslims

I guess the battle that has been won is that even racists and their apologists know they cannot admit to it publicly so they will just deny it and attack those who will not stand for racism and challenge it everywhere they see it

Good way of you all self outing yourself as well

I have no real interest in engaging with racists but also feel we should not let their hatred go unchallenged

I dont even think its a left v right Cpt flash and THM Stoner and others would never ever say anythign like this and would challenge it as well so racism, though generally the preserve of the RW is not simply a right v left issue unless you are a simpleton form the RW persuassion

Junkyard

You must be very naive

Why thanks you Sherlock you are proper high brow sort arent you

And you are lecturing me on using empty rhetoric ...oh the irony

Have you got anything other than lazy ad hominem insults?

Junkyard- You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Looks like Germany must be heading to form the 4th Reich.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/angela-merkel-admits-mistakes-asylum-seekers-election ]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/angela-merkel-admits-mistakes-asylum-seekers-election[/url]

“for some time, we didn’t have enough control”. “No one wants a repeat of last year’s situation, including me,” Merkel said.

gobuchul - Member

Junkyard- You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Stop. He confronts real racists every day. He's in a battle you see, and if you don't agree...well you're almost certainly a racist. A stupid, ignorant right wing racist. From the shadows no less.

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Well this thread has been nicely derailed by those who are obsessed by the race angle. We are now talking about immigration control ffs.

ernie_lynch - Member

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Well this thread has been nicely derailed by those who are obsessed by the race angle. We are now talking about immigration control ffs.

Well lets not. Let's talk about the "community outrage" and the blacklivesmatter style protest and the subsequent media coverage that made this a "race issue" shall we?

Have you got anything other than lazy ad hominem insults?

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

WHy oh why do folk think racists and their apologists are a bit thick?

LOving the self outing still of the EDL fanboys and that even they realise they cannot say openly say they are racist so they simply attack those who openly say they despise racists

IMHO all decent folk hate racists hence why you find yourself on the other side of the "debate" from me

jimjam - Member

Let's talk about the "community outrage"

Why? Because jambalaya brought it up?

Junkyard

for racists and their apologists i dont have much more than insults of them and their ideology as they are bigots who are beyond rational discourse.
I do so enjoy having a lecture from the hate filled nutters on how to be polite to folk you disagree with as I love a big dose of ignorant unintentional irony from the "intellectual right"

I'd just like to say that the bravery which you are so clearly displaying here, deep in the trenches of STW racist hell is admirable. No doubt many will see your bravery as a beacon, a mighty signal of virtue and they will regard you as true warrior for justice in the face of insidious evil.

Keep fighting the good fight. Your bravery will not go unnoticed. You are winning.

ernie_lynch

Let's talk about the "community outrage"

Why? Because jambalaya brought it up?

No because that's the only reason there's even a thread about this.

don't care what race or religion lives in my street

However if they start painting kerb stones red, white and blue; blocking the traffic to examine the detail of the road surface; painting nasty messages on my gate because I employ foreigners; insult or threaten me because I'm foreign; aggressively tout bits of paper about l'église le phare; or parade with banners calling to kill the police: I might start caring.

Look in the mirror, Junkyard, you're off on one again and it doesn't do you any good. A zealot of any brand is dangerous, even an anti-racism zealot - because they see racism everywhere even where it isn't - and conveniently forget that racism can work two ways. I've been on the receiving end of one of your tirades and just let you get on with it. You really aren't doing your cause any good, and it's a just one, so that's a pity.

You people are so predictable its hilarious to read,keep up the good work:)

Have you guys even seen the "protests"? Tiny and mostly just the rude bwoys being twerps as usual. Nothing special, less-so in Bradders.

Also - looks like you guys are gonna get yourselves banned, chillax 🙂

jambyfact which is just shorthand for lies.

I think this racism argument is gonna come up again and again and here's why.....

Some guys on here are worried about Islam and terrorism and maybe there is justification for that as we've all seen or heard things which have given us cause to be fearful...

BUT and it's a very big but. To focus a LOT of energy on this problem indicates something deeper, something more profound..
I'm afraid of flying but I don't campaign against aeroplanes.. I'm afraid of RTAs but I don't spend half my waking life trying to turn people against traffic...

A much more accurate comparison would be that I'm afraid of spider bites, but if I spent a huge amount of my life raising awareness of dangerous spiders, and attributing all sorts of global issues to spiders, making up lies about spiders, trying to get people to be as scared of spiders as I am and imagining spiders are trying to take over the planet and destroy the human race people would think, quite rightly, that I had a bit of a phobia..

So when certain forum members dedicate so much time to fearmongering, it's pretty conclusive evidence that they have an irrational fear, perhaps a strong enough fear to spread hateful messages..
In modern parlance, an irrational hatred of people with different coloured skin is racism, and people suffering from this mental illness spending so much time denying their problem is worrying for the rest of us in the world who are trying to get along with each other

Maybe one day when the use of the internet to publish our every thought has been explored more fully, when we have researched all the data we will perhaps be in a position to collate this evidence and offer medical help to the people suffering from hateful delusions.. and because hateful delusions are so destructive, perhaps we will realise that these people are actually a danger to themselves and others 😐

Well said.

yunki - Member

I think this racism argument is gonna come up again and again and here's why.....

No I much prefer Junkyard's explanation. He and his fellow arbiters of political correctness are always anti-racist. So if you disagree with them you that makes you a racist, and since all racists are thick you are also thick. By default.

Stupid people don't learn good and are in need of continual re-education.

I've been on the receiving end of one of your tirades and just let you get on with it.

No you didn't, you flounced and then decided to keep your views on some segments of French society under your hat.

You need to link me doing that, Duckman. Withdrawing from an debate when when you're getting insulted is not a flounce, it's refusing to be a victim and thus depriving the bully of his satisfaction.

I'm still against face covering in public which is I assume what you are referring to, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm all for republican values and the secular state so when a local preacher started handing out homophobic "Manif pour Tous" tracts outside my local school (same street) I went home, raided Madame's wardrobe and went back to have debate with him (and thus distract him from handing out his tracts).

I was totally comfortable doing it as the guy was the same colour as me, similar age, same religion (if I have one) and male. Had he not been I'd have thought twice about challenging him because I'd have risked accusations of racism, being anti-religious or sexism - even though the focus of my intervention was the homophobic nature of his tracts. Because as Junki notes, even when your target has nothing to do with the sex, religion or ethnicity of your adversary you risk having the anti-religious, sexist or racist card pulled.

that's a cool story bro....

but what relevance does your fascinating anecdote have to combating the (slightly) racist bile that gets spat all over the forum on a daily basis?

the (slightly) racist bile

How does that work?

How can you be "slightly" racist?

And if it's only slight, then how could it be bile?

Racism: Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

A lot of the stuff on here that is called racism by the hand wringers, never, ever, suggests that they are superior to another race of people.

It is pretty fundamental to the definition.

A lot of the stuff on here that is called racism by the hand wringers, never, ever, suggests that they are superior to another race of people.

It is pretty fundamental to the definition.

Just watch how much they jump up and down when someone points out that Muslim isn't a race...

Is there any chance we could get back to talking about Bradford at some point?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>other threads

Well, this bit made me laugh, you've not quite grasped shorthand yet, have you?

😀

gobuchul, I agree.
But a focus on criticising the behaviour of one particular group, behaviour seemingly inherent in humanity regardless of race or religion, is indicative of the type of behaviour eloquently outlined in Yunki's post.

The superiority is evident from the hypocricy, surely?

just lols 😆

hateful bastards with hateful agendas brought about by fear and cowardice and tempered with wilful ignorance

I'm afraid of spider bites, but if I spent a huge amount of my life raising awareness of dangerous spiders, and attributing all sorts of global issues to spiders, making up lies about spiders, trying to get people to be as scared of spiders as I am and imagining spiders are trying to take over the planet and destroy the human race people would think, quite rightly, that I had a bit of a phobia..

hateful bastards with hateful agendas

I agree, lefties really do hate anyone who dares disagree with them, don't they?

😆

you're a funny lil man

This thread must be a candidate for a "sticky" by now? 😉

Only in your trousers.

Some really interesting stuff in here worthy of a sensible discussion.

QED

So, enlighten us then.

The M62 shooting is such a simple story, containing so few facts, that people with an agenda have filled in the blanks for themselves.

The full truth may never emerge, because:

1. The family and friends of Yassar Yaqub can't be trusted to give an honest account.

2. The police can't be trusted to give an honest account.

But the truth doesn't matter. Because right-wing authoritarians have already decided that Yassar Yaqub was a gangster, and that alone justifies his killing by the police at the side of a motorway.

Right-wing authoritarians must be delighted. The police have shown themselves to be tough on crime, they did NOT show preferential treatment to a Muslim, and they have sent out a "powerful message" to the criminal fraternity.

So guys, what are you still bitching about?

[img] [/img]

ninfan - Member

Just watch how much they jump up and down when......

I notice that you now repeatedly describe people who disagree with you as "jumping up and down".

Is this your latest school yard taunt.........it's so hurtful! 🙂

I find your limited use of vocabulary when engaged in a debate with someone fascinating ninfan.

1. The family and friends of Yassar Yaqub can't be trusted to give an honest account.
2. The police can't be trusted to give an honest account.

I'm not particularly interested in the arguments going on in this thread, nor do I have any opinion yet on this incident, since the accounts and explanations of what happened have not been made public yet.

But something that seems to be becoming more widely recognised, particularly in the context of police shootings (UK and elsewhere), and might be interesting to some, is the idea of unconscious bias. It's something I was unaware of until after Mark Duggan was shot by the police. There are plenty of articles about it, this is just one.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice

It's quite interesting, if you like understanding how things work.

I think the Police will find it very difficult to be anything other than honest, to be fair.

I have no idea what happened.

But if it means we have a bit more focus on the extent of the heroin trade locally and nationally then some good may come out of it all.

And we did have genuine riots a few years ago.
Hopefully we've moved on a bit since then.
The comparative lack of focus on race in the media seems to reflect the feelings of most people I've spoken to.

You'll always get people who focus unecessarily on one thing, but everyone else just gets on with their lives.

I think the Police will find it very difficult to be anything other than honest.

You don't have to do much googling to realise that the opposite is the case, unfortunately.

I'm an optimist.
🙂

It's a sad thing that someone has been killed & It's just as sad that it won't stop anyone else dealing drugs (If that is indeed what the deceased was)
There'll be some happy drug dealers who've already taken over his customers.

thegreatape - Member

But something that seems to be becoming more widely recognised, particularly in the context of police shootings (UK and elsewhere), and might be interesting to some, is the idea of unconscious bias.

Macpherson made that point in his 1999 report into the Met when he described institutional racism as :

[b][i]"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."[/i][/b]

Note [i]"through [u]unwitting prejudice[/u], ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping".[/i]

I have no doubt at all that UK policing has improved massively in that respect since the Stephen Lawrence tragedy. But it would be foolish to assume that all cases of unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping, no longer occur within UK police forces.

esselgruntfuttock - Member

It's a sad thing that someone has been killed & It's just as sad that it won't stop anyone else dealing drugs (If that is indeed what the deceased was)
There'll be some happy drug dealers who've already taken over his customers.

Good point well said.