Should a scantily clad woman be arbitrarily placed next-to/on something you are trying to sell
What if that object is a vibrator?
I suggest you google the word "arbitrarily," you seem to have misunderstood it.
What if that object is a vibrator?
So you agree that that would be an appropriate context (maybe)?
How about using them to sell an energy drink at a sports event? Would that be an appropriate context?
There is a large degree of circularity in the arguments being posted, but I suspect there is a slow evolution of ideas and ways of communicating concepts. The issues can be complex, especially where people haven't been exposed to them in a meaningful way before, or haven't tried to see things from other perspectives.
That cartoon is excellent.
Whats that woooshing noise? I think its the point flying right over jamborgieshead.
Are you doing this deliberately or are you incapable of understanding a simple point clearly expressed?
I’m struggling to understand your point
That the whole subject is complex, and bogged down in both behaviours that is genetically programmed into half the population and that at the same time is seen in a civilized society as a "bad thing" - rightly because of the consequences and harms it causes.
I don't think you can point at one group of people and say "This is all your fault" when as a society we probably need to agree how we tackle it
🤣
The point appears to have moved though dear tj.
Beginning of thread: OMG Won't somebody think about the girls!
End of thread: OMG Won't somebody think of the boys!
Actual point of thread: OMG Won’t somebody think!
I suggest you google the word “arbitrarily,” you seem to have misunderstood it.
Mleh I'm arguing for effect. Should we use women's bodies to sell stuff? probs not, will it stop? probs not in my lifetime. And some of the people engaged in making sure that it doesn't stop are women, Some women want to do this work, and are willing to deal with the consequences of their choice to do so. Should that be their choice to make?
(... though, we've demonstrably got a ways to go on that one.)
That post jambougie shows your lack of understanding.
Beginning of thread: OMG Won’t somebody think about the girls!
No, the beginning of the thread was more:
"Won't somebody think about this situation"
EDIT - What Cougar said
With the subtext being "is this really appropriate? and what can we/should we do about it to make our society a better one for everyone"
Should that be their choice to make?
Do you think it should?
Mleh I’m arguing for effect
Yes..... and it's not having the effect that you think it is.
Yes….. and it’s not having the effect that you think it is.
Haha, it's internet arguing, I'm absolutely certain that this isn't changing anyone's mind.
what can we/should we do about it to make our society a better one for everyone
IS that actually possible ?
Everyone doesn't include both the men/women who want this type of situation does it ?
Do you think it should?
For somethings maybe yes, for most things probably not.
Clarify: If you accept that the routine exploitation* of women to sell shit to men is a "bad thing" then I agree with you. Should women be used in adverts - of say; a bikini to sell that to other women, well then now we're in a different place.
*as a catch all, excepting that people do this willingly
Some women want to do this work, and are willing to deal with the consequences of their choice to do so.
Consequences to themselves, not wider society.
The passive smoking analogy is a good one.
Ian Wright on Women's Football this morning - "Don't worry about the dinosaurs screaming at the meteor"
Consequences to themselves, not wider society.
But this society that we all live in, values, celebrates and triumphs the choices of the individual, and empowerment of women in whatever form that takes (regardless of it's legitimacy) is placed as most valuable because of their former lack of power.
Again, the "clever" people who know that they are right are resorting to calling people stupid because they don't have the emotional intelligence to communicate their point of view with out throwing their toys out the pram and saying I give up just backs up the anti-woke defence they use.
We live in a world that has “recently“ elected Trump, Johnson et al and they still have huge public support. Makes you think... Sheeeple...
It’s been communicated pretty clearly - several times. Seems to be an understanding issue rather than one of insufficient explanation.
As long as you have a thought process that resorts to calling people stupid you have and will always loose your argument.
excellent quote! Exactly my feelings 😃Ian Wright on Women’s Football this morning – “Don’t worry about the dinosaurs screaming at the meteor”
As long as you have a thought process that resorts to calling people stupid you have and will always loose your argument.
[img]
[/img]
that is not true btw, although as Twain said, "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." 🤣
But this society that we all live in, values, celebrates and triumphs the choices of the individual, and empowerment of women in whatever form that takes (regardless of it’s legitimacy) is placed as most valuable because of their former lack of power.
So we should aim to shape that society (which in some areas, hasn’t progressed from the 70’s) to place more value in being heard, rather than just seen?
The above just sounds like ‘that’s just the way it is mate’, why not try to change it?
Nine pages of arguing against something that is clearly wrong, like so many things I was young and hopeful in the 90's I thought all this would be sorted. I looked at the 60's and 70's hippies and laughed at how they had changed so little whilst us 90's kids would see and end to racism, homophobia, sexism etc. How wrong I was, idealistic ****!
Are there any actual woman on here who have an opinion on this? I’d value their opinion far more than that of a middle aged white bloke tbh (and I include myself in that category)
@zilog6128
Did I offended you so much that you have to resort to getting the highlighter out?
place more value in being heard, rather than just seen?
Quite right comrade. Clothes should be advertised by monologues describing the heft and weave of your mandatory government overalls.
Did I offended you so much
"offend"
I'm not one generally to pick up on people's grammar because it's lazy and tedious. But if you're going to claim a position of intellectual superiority then (unless you're dyslexic) you're going to have to learn to form sentences if you don't want to undermine that stance.
Are there any actual woman on here who have an opinion on this?
No, we bullied them all away. Makes you think.
Yes I am dislexic thanks.
Also loose will work as your argument is no longer standing tight as proven!
PrinceJohn
Is it tho?
This is a link to the results page – http://www.xgames.com/events/2022/summer/results/
19 events there – only 2 appear to be women’s, both of those for skateboarding.
Doesn’t appear to be any women in BMX or MotoX. Unless you can tell me differently. So my argument stands.
@PrinceJohn an apology from me.
I was a bit ticked off by your original comment earlier in the thread as I'd just spent a couple of hours watching the women's skateboarding with my 7 yr old daughter and she is now obsessed with learning "tricks" to be in the "exteme stunt games". Your comment felt like it was dismissing our/her experience and enjoyment of the event. Hence my snippy reply to your post.
However I agree with your follow-up post, there should at least be somewhere close to parity in the number of events for male/females.
Yes I am dislexic thanks.
In which case I apologise.
However I agree with your follow-up post, there should at least be somewhere close to parity in the number of events for male/females.
It's an invite only event and they (X-Games) don't think in those areas the women's field is large or competitive enough to warrant inclusion.
They've been heavily criticised for it and rightly so, it came to a head for BMX in 2019 when the ladies boycotted the games as Xgames were still pushing it as a showcase event not a medal event.
Therefore the ladies would ride for free without a chance for accolades and prize money and exposure which then increases their earning potential.
tpbiker - what has people's skin colour got to do with any of this? Someone else (or maybe you, can't remember) has raised this a few times and I'm not sure how it's relevant in this thread.
It's good to call for diverse input though, so support that. Note that the thrust of the OPs point relates to what this means for young people/children - unlikely to be many under the age of 10 on here I suspect.
Nine pages of arguing against something that is clearly wrong
Yes, but its not clearly wrong though is it, as has been communicated via several people. There are issues with pit girls, if and how they are being used and the messaging is sends to others but also their ethical choices of how they are making their living/providing for others.
Regardless of my personal opinion, nothing in this thread has concluded to a single defining clear and correct statement in response to the OP.
TLDR: Its stilll a morale and ethical grey area for many.
Are there any actual woman on here who have an opinion on this?
What would the opinion or say one woman matter any more than any man's. What if the woman was in the 1% who didn't see any problem with it all (using the problems raised in this thread as a starter).
That is the problem when everyone has an equal voice on a forum thread with a handful of people, there is no perspective. DO 90% of people have no problem with it or do 90% of people think it is stuff that should stay in the past.
tpbiker – what has people’s skin colour got to do with any of this?
Oh ffs…you know fine well what I meant
I used the "stupid" word in the context that it would be stupid to drink Monster. Given what we know about sugar and glucose in relation to heart disease, damage to arteries and diabetes I don't think it's out of order to say it would be stupid to drink this:
EAU GAZÉIFIÉE, SUCRE, SIROP DE GLUCOSE, ACIDIFIANT (ACIDE CITRIQUE), ARÔMES, TAURINE (0,4%), CORRECTEUR D'ACIDITÉ (CITRATE DE SODIUM), EXTRAIT DE RACINE DE GINSENG (0,08%), L-TARTRATE DE L-CARNITINE (0,04%), CONSERVATEURS (ACIDE ASCORBIQUE, ACIDE BENZOÏQUE), CAFÉINE (0,02%), COLORANT (E163), VITAMINES (B2, B3, B6, B12), ÉDULCORANT (SUCRALOSE), CHLORURE DE SODIUM, D-GLUCURONOLACTONE, EXTRAIT DE GRAINE DE GUARANA (0,002%), INOSITOL, MALTODEXTRINE.
My goverment has a soda tax for these reasons. It's stupid to drink Monster in the same way as it's stupid smoking cigarettes. One won't kill you but the consequences of drinking many might.
Yes, but its not clearly wrong though is it, as has been communicated via several people.
Who are either clearly wrong themselves, stupid or arguing about something else in the hope of distraction.
The Wench won't comment on the thread because as I understand the arguments are so polarised that it's not a pleasant place to share her views.
Nether of us think that the use of pit girls has a place.
She knows someone that does the work and they enjoys, get to go on race grids and access to areas at events the vips get to go, how do you tell her she is wrong?
Its stilll a morale and ethical grey area for many idiots.
I used the “stupid” word in the context that it would be stupid to drink Monster. Given what we know about sugar and glucose in relation to heart disease, damage to arteries and diabetes I don’t think it’s out of order to say it would be stupid to drink this:
The energy drink marketing has too deep a hold and you have the cool kids promoting it.
Do you call most of Mexico stupid because coke is cheaper than water?
She knows someone that does the work and they enjoys, get to go on race grids and access to areas at events the vips get to go, how do you tell her she is wrong?
Don't think anyone is telling her she is wrong. That is not what the discussion is about.
This is part of the problem with getting to a solution, if you can't talk to women about morrals, how can you explain it to the promotor making a load of profit when you are resorting to calling people idiots.
anagallis_arvensis
Free MemberIts still a morale and ethical grey area for many idiots.
Don’t think anyone is telling her she is wrong. That is not what the discussion is about
AA, you really need to think about what you are saying. Just because you and I don't think our daughters need to see pit girls and the inference they come with AND we believe in an equalitious world, doesn't mean you have the right to call them idiots for making a choice to earn money or appropriate things with what they do.
Or would you have the world banning any representation by human form? And if so how far does that go? Do we ban Athletics because is misreprensentive of a potentially unhealthy exercise ethic, or physical representation of people in skimpy clothes? Or Road Cyclists because we don't want our kids growing up with T Rex arms? Is Dina Asha Smith an idiot for wearing makeup and hair extensions? Is Chris Froome an idiot for looking like a daddy long legs on his route to cycling success? What's your generalist non sexualised look that you'd agree upon?
I'll go out on a massively contentious limb here; I can't stand Katie Price as an individual, but do you think without her continued self promotion and physical re-invention her disabled son Harvey would be afforded the privileges he is, to his benefit? Would you put a stop to that? I think we'd both agree she's a very poor role model for our daughters, but its not for me to enforce judgement-biased limits upon her.
