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Due to con dems not dredging the rivers and ditches, [s]bribing[/s],offering a 5,000 quid grant to improve flood defences to all houses, telling insurance companies to pay out quicker,offering tax and rate relief to small buisness, and saying money is no object when theyve taken millions off the working classes.
And when the floods are affecting a very small number of people down south,compared to the whole population of england and wales.
were they dredged up to the last election?
Are you missing the fact that it has been the wettest couple of weeks in 250 years or something? Rubbish troll
Is the £5k grants available to northerners? Or just Tory constituents?
There's enough hydro-engineers around currently all saying that dredging wouldn't have stopped this from happening. River capacity being way smaller than the amount of water that's sitting there.
One suggestion for most likely way to safeguard the Somerset levels is to lower the sea level to increase the distance the water has to drop. Apparently this would need a fairly large sea wall to hold back the actual sea :-/
Haven't most of the non government boffins said that dredging wouldn't have really helped on the basis of the volume of rain we'd had.
I wouldn't vote them full stop.
Whats the PAYE tax threshold again on the first ten grand that you earn?
Then add tax credits, etc?
So the working class are penalised?
project - if you put a tub of lard up as a conservative in that area they'd get voted in.
SO 7 of us are not voting conservative then
Drac +1
project - if you put a tub of lard up as a conservative in that area they'd get voted in.
at least it would be waterproof
vote conservative, whats the alternative, can i be disemboweled instead!
Im not voting Conservative until I get a Referendum on Europe. Until then they can kiss my shiny metal ass.
Predictable thread is predictable.
Predictable Tory is predictable.
Boring lame troll (1/10 if you're curious) can't even be arsed to get his facts right...
🙄
I did think this montage from the Somerset Levels was quite interesting:
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Thats not happened over just a few years!
Pointless thread: the poor flooded folk of the Somerset Levels and Thames valley would put on flippers and snorkel and swim to the polling station to vote in a goat as long as you put a blue ribbon on it.
Strange how basic physics, show that the larger the opening/pipe/vessel the more fluid that will flow down it, and as all rivers are tidal that means the tidal water goes out twice a day, allowing the flood water a speedier flow.
the poor flooded folk of the Somerset Levels and Thames valley would put on flippers and snorkel and swim to the polling station to vote in a goat as long as you a blue ribbon on it.
DOH
but would they now, thats the question being asked,based on the present cockup not the past responces to voting.
Dunno about physics, but basic geography says that not all rivers are tidal.
Strange how basic physics, show that the larger the opening/pipe/vessel the more fluid that will flow down it, and as all rivers are tidal that means the tidal water goes out twice a day, allowing the flood water a speedier flow.
& your point is?
DOHbut would they now, thats the question being asked,based on the present cockup not the past responces to voting.
You could interpret my answer as "they never had my vote in the first place but as for my (hypothetical, since I live in a different and equally safe Blue constituency) neighbours, then yes they still would".
I hoped that the tone of my post up there implied that there would need to be rather a lot more disruption to the lives of a lot more people living in such safe Tory seats for enough of them to change their politics to make it a difference at polling day. Not enough [s]people[/s] voters or interests of large industry have been affected for any government to do anything radical or expensive.
water will flow to the lowest point,which is sea level,increasing the depth and width of rivers will allow more water to flow faster and allow more capacity to flow.
The fact that the EA stopped dredging twenty years ago, and have refused to carry it out despite requests for it ever since, and the government takes their advise on the correct course of action, I think it would be pointless.
Project obviously doesn't go much further than sensationalist headlines, before posting up knee-jerk threads.
It's worth pointing out that both heads of the EA have been Labour appointees, the current one being Chris Smith, before becoming Lord Smith:
In 1997 he was appointed to Tony Blair's Cabinet as the first Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. As a Minister known to have a close connection with the arts scene in Britain his time at DCMS is generally regarded as a success as many projects funded through the National Lottery came to fruition. There were controversies most notably his approval during his first week as minister of the appointment of Mary Allen to the Royal Opera House in which case a Select Committee report found that he had exceeded his authority and failed in not seeking advice from his Permanent Secretary.
In 2000 he managed to secure a tax rebate that enabled many museums to give free admission. He held this position throughout the Labour government's first term, but was sacked and returned to the back benches after the 2001 election, replaced by the up-and-coming Tessa Jowell. Tony Blair later hinted at his regret at losing Smith's services, particularly his strong relationship with the arts world.[citation needed].
Appointment to the House of Lords[edit]
After over 20 years in Parliament, Smith stepped down from the House of Commons at the 2005 general election. It was announced on 30 April 2005 that he was to be created a life peer, and the title was gazetted on 22 June 2005 as Baron Smith of Finsbury, in the London Borough of Islington.[7]
Retirement from politics[edit]Smith was appointed Chair of the London Cultural Consortium (the successor body to the Cultural Strategy Group) by London Mayor Ken Livingstone, and served from 2005 to 2008.
He was one of the founding directors of the Clore Leadership Programme, an initiative aimed at helping to train and develop new leaders of Britain's cultural sector.[8][9] He is also currently Chairman of the Wordsworth Trust.[10] In November 2006, he was appointed as Chairman of The Advertising Standards Authority.[citation needed] Smith is a keen mountaineer and was the first MP to climb all the 3,000 ft "Munros" in Scotland;[11] in April 2004 he was elected as the Ramblers' Association President.[12] He is a patron of London-based HIV charity, The Food Chain.[citation needed]
On 30 January 2005, Smith revealed to the Sunday Times that he had HIV and was first diagnosed in 1987.[3] He stated that he had decided to go public following Nelson Mandela's announcement of his son's death from AIDS.[2]
On 8 May 2008, he was announced as the new Chairman of the Environment Agency and took up the new role in mid July.[13] In an interview with The Independent in August that year, he said Britain faced hard choices over which coasts to defend and which to leave to the sea because it would not be possible to save all coastal homes from sea erosion.[14] Lord Smith was re-appointed as Chair of the Environment Agency for a further three years by Environment Secretary Caroline Spelman in 2011. Lord Smith, will now continue in this role until 13 July 2014. On re-appointment he received £100,813 pro rata for 2011/12, based on working three days per week.[15]
I'd like to know exactly what expert knowledge about the environment, in particular flooding, and the defence thereof, he took to the Environment Agency.
water will flow to the lowest point,which is sea level,increasing the depth and width of rivers will allow more water to flow faster and allow more capacity to flow.
I think their point is that even with dredged rivers they would still not of had the capacity to cope with the volume of water flowing.
A lot of the issues have also been caused by the water table rising so increased flood defences wouldn't help when the water is coming up through peoples floors/toilets.
Conservative MPs everywhere will sympathise with the people of the Somerset Levels. Some haven't had their moats dredged since the change in expenses procedures.
Maybe you should watch Panorama now?
project - Member
Strange how basic physics, show that the larger the opening/pipe/vessel the more fluid that will flow down it, and as all rivers are tidal that means the tidal water goes out twice a day, allowing the flood water a speedier flow.
So, in that case, the fact that the Tone and the Parrat at Burrowbridge, where they meet, are each around twenty-four feet narrower than they ought to be, thus constricting their flow by 40%, means that dredging would allow them to carry very much more water from the flooded area. That point also happens to be the furthest point inland the the river is tidal, around seventeen and a half miles, and the Severn tides wash a lot of silt back up, but dredging allows greater fresh water flow which helps stop the silt from settling. But not completely.
The EA's position is that dredging is damaging to certain wildlife, like some fresh-water shellfish, and thus should be stopped, which also helps their desire to return the Levels to salt-marsh, making it a wetland suitable for migrating birds.
Ignoring the fact it's been a place people have lived and worked for centuries, their ideology trumps people's lives, and whichever government is in power takes that advice, because that's what governments do.
The fact that the advice is skewed is beside the point.
A tidal gate at the mouth of the Parrat, to help prevent silt being washed back up has been on the agenda for years, as I understand it, but that would go against the wetland principle.
It would only cost £4million, which the EA say they haven't got, but that didn't stop them spending £22 million turning the Stert Peninsula into a bird reserve, again over-riding the needs of locals.
Would the OP vote labour? The party super guilty of spending other peoples money twice? Where's Binners?
I can't see any difference between the thre main parties no matter what the weather is doing.
I'd like to know exactly what expert knowledge about the environment, in particular flooding, and the defence thereof, he took to the Environment Agency.
No different to any cabinet post, they have retained experts in the organisation who understand the detail. CEOs job is not to micro manage detail in any organisation.
but that didn't stop them spending £22 million turning the Stert Peninsula into a bird reserve, again over-riding the needs of locals.
One of the reasons for this project was to reduce flooding in that area, by using the reserve as a large sponge.
if you put a tub of lard up as a conservative in that area they'd get voted in
They did, it was called Boris
oh yes, I'll vote labour for never ending sun shine, dry winters and frost free mornings.
Personally I wouldn't even piss on any politician from the mainstream parties if they were on fire let alone vote! What's the point? it makes no difference, we still end up with self serving, corrupt slime. We would be better off in a semi totalitarian dictatorship .
Lib Dems promised a dry winter, even gave a written pledge to that effect
If the Tories hadn't legalised gay marriage then none of this would have happened on the first place 😉
project - Memberwater will flow to the lowest point,which is sea level,increasing the depth and width of rivers willll allow more water to flow faster and allow more capacity to flow.
This weekend, I was in Oban - coastal town. There were sandbags along the harbour and at shop doorways fronting on to the harbour. Are you suggesting that the Atlantic should be dredged?
those posh henley folk would probably have voted for this guy, now they definitely will
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theyre just waiting for their man borris to replace dave anyway
project - Member
Strange how basic physics, show that the larger the opening/pipe/vessel the more fluid that will flow down it, and as all rivers are tidal that means the tidal water goes out twice a day, allowing the flood water a speedier flow.
POSTED 11 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Most of the flooded land is below sea level, precipitation falling here has to be pumped up before it can go back down again.
All because a project could cost £22 million does not mean the EA pays the whole bill quite often some of the funding comes from elsewhere.
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Yes, the bridge hole does wan't dredging but look at the b&w pic and then the colour pic and see how theirs more houses in that small shot never mind the whole village. The bridge was probably fine when it was built but the best thing you could do is knock the bridge down and build a new one to allow more water to flow through it.
Been to a few villages that have flood and the problem they flood is that they're lovely picturesque bridge is no longer adequate to allow the water to flow through and mention the best thing would be would to replace the bridge but they go mad at the thought of it but then still blame the EA for the flooding.
In one area to get over the problem it was possible for the EA build a high flow channel just down stream of the bridge that sits dry most of the year but in a flood it fills and when it does it actually pulls more water through the bridge. When it was being built the EA got slagged off for building it, resident saying it would never work and moaned about wrecking the area because some trees had to come down. But since it has been built the village has never flooded. And the kids play in the channel when its dry as it looks just like the rest of the park its next to.
Kuco - red carded for talking sense on a political thread.
Personally I'm more inclined to believe the the EA, even it's chief who is busy defending his staff to the media et al and is likely to be getting some internal support and decent briefing as a result, rather than a vote chasing MP who'll say anything to play to the masses and get headlines.
I'm annoyed by their political response rather than practical. They seem to be blaming the EA and promising to bring back dredging despite the experts saying in this case the volume of water was so colossal it wouldn't have made any difference. They only seem to be doing this to appease the media and voters that seem to want heads to roll for a disaster that hasn't been seen for many generations.
Neither will they talk about changes to the uplands, as that is too politically sensitive with the farming vote. So the whole response seems to be how to make them look the best and everyone else bad, rather than being honest and about the situation and the problems causing - too much deforestation, too much building on flood plains i.e. we are to blame.
Doesn't mean I'd vote labour though who couldn't be trusted with pocket money, just saddened all political parties (and media) seem unable to discuss anything with maturity.
Would you vote conservative next month if your house had just been flooded?
No, but then again I have not; will not ever vote conservative, party of the selfish, rich and privileged with a dogma for small state large tax burden for those who can't afford a [s]tax avoidance shark[/s] accountant.
"Vote"?
I still struggle to see how any political party can make it stop raining.
The other observation is the papers/news/people in the street all slag off the government about how badly they have handled the floods, defecit, scotland vote etc. If so many people are unhappy with them, how did they get in to power?
hooli - MemberIf so many people are unhappy with them, how did they get in to power?
You do know they got into power with a minority, by convincing another party to sell their souls and betray all their voters? Voter dissatisfaction WAS shown in the election, you just can't tell because they act like they got a mugabe majority rather than being the best placed losers
I still struggle to see how any political party can make it stop raining.
Apparently they have something called Cobra meetings which makes it all better.
I love it when they have a Cobra meeting. Who wears the Destro mask?
just what I was thinking northwind!
I think there is a wider discussion to be had about political culpability in this - although Monbiot is a bit of a dick a lot of the time (and I speak as a political fellow traveller) he has some interesting stuff to say on the matter here: http://www.monbiot.com/2014/02/17/muddying-the-waters/
Which is worth looking at - deregulation of soil control measures on a crop/growing regime which is known to cause flooding? Surely not this government.
I would, but i'd vote for anyone, me. In fact it's a shame you can only vote for one, it'd be nicer if you could share it a bit
I'm happy to criticise the current government...but I honestly don't think they've done a huge amount wrong, not in the lead up to the floods anyway.
The rivers hadn't been dredged for decades. The EA and a host of other experts (CIWEM and others) said dredging wasn't the answer. But Eric Pickles said it was, so it became the only answer.
We've had an almost unprecendented amount of rain for month after month. That's what's caused the problem. If we were on the verge of a drought and somewhere was still flooded then yeah, start complaining. But when we've had a spell of freak weather we have to accept that it'll cause some problems. The only way to stop it would be a Dutch style decade-after-decade protection plan, not just dredging a river once in a while.
While the impact could likely have been lessened isn't it about time to admit that things aren't always going to stay the same as they were in the baby boomer golden age and that we're simply going to have to adapt to changing conditions? Nature doesn't have a status quo for long and we're in a time of change. The fact that we as humans may have accelerated that is incidental.*
I do wish one of the politicians would try and give a bit of perspective rather than constantly try to keep everyone sweet while actually doing nothing. As someone mentioned before, we'd surely be much better off with a visionary dictator than the current bunch of professional wind socks.
*I'll admit that I now, and will always try to, live on a hill and this probably makes me smug and self righteous but being born in Upton-in-Severn will tend to make you wise to this being a good idea.
Sure, I'll vote conservative. Over my cold, dead body!
Northwind - Member
hooli - Member
If so many people are unhappy with them, how did they get in to power?You do know they got into power with a minority, by convincing another party to sell their souls and betray all their voters? Voter dissatisfaction WAS shown in the election, you just can't tell because they act like they got a mugabe majority rather than being the best placed losers
Meh, they were voted in because the general public didn't like how labour were leading the country and were looking for somebody "not as bad". It boils down to the same thing, they are in power because people voted
Yeah, you can prove anything with facts.
How do those in Northumberland vote now?
hooli - MemberIt boils down to the same thing, they are in power because people voted
Eh, they're in power only because they were able to form a coalition with the lib dems, and you can't tell me that lib dem voters expected their votes to lead here? They didn't vote for this.
They didn't vote for this.
Damn right we didn't. Nick Clegg said nothing about being 'more Tory than Tory' once he got in!
Eh, they're in power only because they were able to form a coalition with the lib dems, and you can't tell me that lib dem voters expected their votes to lead here? They didn't vote for this.
True. I voted LD because in that constituency (now moved) the only alternative was Tory. Labour probably wonder if they'll even get their deposit back when they run there! I voted to keep the Tories out. And it worked, by something like 75 votes. And then they jumped into bed with them.
read this and have a reality check before you go believing everything in the media, you'd be amazed by how much of it is completely untrue when you have first hand experience. See the link below.
Cuts have happened over the last 20 years, to put it down to one party would be naive.