I have voted for the Brexit Party so if he is amongst those in the party that are sent over so be it.
Yeah I'm not sure you understand how democracy works.
Yeah I’m not sure you understand how democracy works.
On the ballot paper it says Brexit Party so I voted for that party.
How does democracy work then?
Still, his supporters all seem a reasonable bunch.
I reckon that even if I thought brexit was a great idea, I'd be looking at the people I was getting into bed with and taking a long, hard look at my life choices.
On the ballot paper it says Brexit Party so I voted for that party.
How does democracy work then?
You voted for the candidate in your region on behalf of the Brexit party, it had zero effect on Farage being voted in. They take separate seats at the EU it's not to vote a party in to lead the UK.
The man often mentions that he is a businessman and not a politician. He has seen an opportunity to many lots of money and is exploiting the system to its fullest.
Why is Nigel an MEP?
Because Vladimir told him to.
Ah Chewkw not understanding but arguing till the end, he is amusing.
Ernielynch : seeing as brexit has directly led to the cancellation of a medical trial for secondary progressive ms (no current treatment available) which I was due to participate in then I think I’m entirely justified in calling out pig thick ****ing racists whenever the opportunity arises
Yep its shutting us out of several major EU wide cancer trials as well
deeply frustrating for researchers & the NHS who have spent millions on the process so far, not to mention patients who could be missing out on life saving treatments & certainly helping pave the way for better treatments
(the issue is with data confidentiality, as ECJ ids final arbiter of enforcing it)
theres a stunning silence from those that support brexit when stuff like this gets raised , chewy?
theres a stunning silence from those that support brexit when stuff like this gets raised
‘You’ll be fine. ‘They’ will sort something out.’ Is the general response I get.
I imagine it'll involve privatising the NHS, so not only will you not be able to get the treatment but you won't be able to afford it if it is available. Problem solved, now about those technological solutions to the Irish border....
You voted for the candidate in your region on behalf of the Brexit party, it had zero effect on Farage being voted in. They take separate seats at the EU it’s not to vote a party in to lead the UK.
That I know I just want to vote Brexit Party as it is on the ballot paper.
In the Far East we tend to vote for party first than the person.
Ah Chewkw not understanding but arguing till the end, he is amusing.
I understand that I can vote for whoever is on the ballot paper.
Isn't Nigel Farage now an MEP?
Isn’t Nigel Farage now an MEP?
Well yes but not because of your vote.
Care to give kimbers and somafunk your opinion on the cancer drug trial cancellations chewkw??
Chewkw, if 100% or 0% of the people in your EU voting area had voted for the Brexit Party it would still have had no effect on Farage being an MEP. Also comment on the tricky stuff instead of not understanding the simple stuff.
In the Far East we tend to vote for party first than the person.
In the UK, you vote for the person (for council and general elections)
Yes, NF is an MEP. This is because he was the first choice from a panel put forward by the brexit party in the south east constituency (is that the right word?). You did not vote in that constituency. You voted for John Tennant and Brian Monteith (who, incidentally lives in the south of France).
Well yes but not because of your vote.
Yes, that I know.
He is the leader of Brexit Party so when I vote for Brexit Party I naturally see him also winning albeit not in the NE.
Care to give kimbers and somafunk your opinion on the cancer drug trial cancellations chewkw??
That question is for NHS and the Govt to answer is it not?
In the UK, you vote for the person (for council and general elections)
Not me.
You voted for John Tennant and Brian Monteith (who, incidentally lives in the south of France).
I voted for the Brexit Party ...
chewkw
That question is for NHS and the Govt to answer is it not?
There you go guys. Confirmation if you needed it. I'll let you lot decide what it confirms to you personally but I know what it confirms to me about chewy and his assertions...
So no comment on a serious issue caused by Brexit affecting an actual forum member? Poor show, new low.
I have deleted this post too ...
Not me
Doesn’t matter what you think you voted for, you put a cross next to the name of a person.
OK I have deleted this post.
Funky old boy, delete that before you get a ban. BTW I'll hold your coat.
Hmmmm...
The interesting thing about mod tools is we can see when I posted has been edited or just someone saying a post was deleted.
Just to add to the doublethink of farage et al, I was particularly tickled by discussion in the news today* of anti EU, right wing MEPs from all across the continent mulling the idea of forming a bloc or some sort of coalition.
I guess it’s occured to some of them that they could be stronger together. Perhaps unite under a common purpose and a common goal, for the greater good and all that. Cracking idea. Brilliant!!!!
*aware Farage hasn’t proposed himself, appears to be an idea raised by Italian right wingers.
Perhaps unite under a common purpose and a common goal, for the greater good and all that. Cracking idea. Brilliant!!!!
Union of Europe.
Splitters!
Well somafunk the context of your anger, which obviously I didn't know about, is hugely relevant. I can indeed understand your anger. I am not of course going to make excuses or argue in favour of clearly inhumane and callous decisions. I shudder to think what chewkw might have deleted (I didn't see it before it was deleted but I did read your response, also now deleted) I do hope despite what has happened that decisions are reversed and that medical needs and common humanity prevails.
Nevertheless there are widely held beliefs on here that anyone opposed to EU membership is stupid, worthless, and racist. To dismiss roughly half the population as such does supporters of the EU no favours. I too can get angry about the EU, an institution which I intense dislike. I don't however translate anger against the EU and all its failings into hatred directed towards EU supporters.
In very much a reverse role I see the supporters of the EU as blind, ill-informed, and in denial. I have no wish to attempt to convince you, anyone attempting to do so on STW is pissing in the wind, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that I am prepared to even attempt to do is to try to convince you that not all opponents of the EU are stupid racists. Although in reality I accept that this is almost certainly futile. Especially as the media's sole attention for a long time has been focused on the small-minded bigots who shout the most.
I was going to give you an insight of where I'm coming from but on reflection I won't bother. Ultimately it doesn't matter if you consider me to be stupid and racist. And really looking at it from a purely practical point of view that attitude, imo, seriously undermines remainers and their cause.
N.B. FYI one of my strongest criticism of the EU is that I see it as inherently racist.
I guess it’s occured to some of them that they could be stronger together. Perhaps unite under a common purpose and a common goal, for the greater good and all that. Cracking idea. Brilliant!!!!
Cracking idea? What it certainly isn't, is a new idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Movement
"Europe a Nation
Mosley perceived a linear growth within British history and he saw Europe a Nation as the culmination of this destiny. Therefore, he argued that it was "part of an organic process of British history", as Britain had united into one nation, and that it was Britain's national destiny to unite the whole continent"
BTW if you read the above link you'll see that the only fascists who had any sort of electoral success at that time was the Italian fascists. Today it is the Italian neo-Fascists who are mainly behind this :
I don't think all the people who voted for Brexit are racist, what I do have an issue with is that the majority of them seem to be either unable to give good reasons for leaving or the reasons they give are based on misinformation. The EU might not be perfect but the alternative seems pretty bleak.
I can't think of any good reason why anyone should vote Tory. Should I therefore assume that there are no valid reasons for voting Tory?
I think you might confusing your opinions with other people's opinions and being surprised when they don't turn out to be the same.
I know people who can give me lots of good reasons why they voted to remain, I don't however necessarily agree with them.
Nigel is an MEP because I voted for him to send him over to oppose the EU bureaucrats.
The "EU bureaucrats" you want to oppose are working for you. Like the UK civil service.
If you would like to see the EU bureaucracy work in a different way (which is a perfectly reasonable aim) why would you vote for the party of a man who doesn't turn up to do his job? Farage is not going to effect any useful changes in the EU, because to put it bluntly, he's a skiver, who is busy promoting his personal brand.
@ernielynch I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.
Why is Farage an MEP? Money and a platform. the money is the main thing. He has been diverting money from EU to UK campaigning - the EU effectivly funded ukip for years and is now funding Farage. He has already been in serious trouble for doing this
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@ernielynch I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.
There is a theory on the left that the EU holds back countries from socialist policies. I do not buy it at all but thats the theory behind lexit ( left wing brexit)
Its the only reason I have seen for brexit that has any logic to it even tho I think it bunkum.
I know people who can give me lots of good reasons why they voted to remain, I don’t however necessarily agree with them.
The problem is that it's not a symmetrical argument of pros and cons that both sides are presenting for discussion. There are obvious, documented reasons why remaining in the EU benefits us in a concrete way. I don't hear Brexit supporters explaining how Leaving actually benefits the UK. The most common justification, even from prominent Brexiteers, is that we should leave to "respect democracy", not because it will actually do us any good. At least a couple of Tory Brexiteers have suggested Brexit will be good because times will be tough, and that will "bring us together" in hardship. They genuinely advanced that as an argument in support of Brexit.
I've got no problem with someone disagreeing with remaining in the EU. I've got a big problem when they won't present concrete arguments to explain why leaving is good for the UK.
The “EU bureaucrats” you want to oppose are working for you. Like the UK civil service.
To a degree they are, but they're also working for over 20 other nations who may have conflicting interests. (eg Spanish tomato growers, UK steel industry.)
Many of us are happy with that trade off - we effectively sub-contract out our Civil Service which saves us a fortune - but we have to accept the drawbacks as well.
Tony Benn on the subject of Bureaucrats:
100pc agree with ernielynch. The remainers ad homs have never worked. Constantly trying the same tactic is going to fail again. A positive case for the EU needs to be made. ...and not one based on economic growth - outside of cities people are actually opposed to growth. Every new housing estate, retail park, industrial estate, road is bitterly opposed. Remain in the EU and (in addition to the land you're already losing) we'll turn 8pc more of the countryside around your town into houses and industrial estate over the next 15 years isn't a vote winner.
I can't help but wonder if it's really bad tactics or deliberate. The Greens are Euro-skeptic as they some. The Libdems were calling for a referendum back in 2007 and have had it in their manifesto at least once since then. A cynic might wonder of a lot of remainers are using logical fallacies simply because they can't think of anything positive to say about the EU.
I didn't vote leave, but if I had I'd be pretty happy with the Remain tactics.
To dismiss roughly half the population as such
It’s not even close to half the population.
I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.
These are; as the the advert disclaimer goes "are for illustrative purposes only" I'm not going to get into an debate/argument about the rights or wrongs, as JHJ would say; do your own research
1. The EU's immigration policy is largely and demonstrably racist. There is almost no Sub Saharan Black African country that has not had it's recent history ****ed up by European colonists, and yet the FOM policies are largely to enrich white Europeans within the block, at the expense of black immigration
2. The European debt crisis, it can be argued has largely contributed to the political rise of far right parties, and has largely fallen on those least able to bear the cost (working class and poor of poor countries such as Greece and Portugal)
3. It is by and large elitist and undemocratic. You only have to watch/listen to the news to hear the bargaining going on between France and Germany for the top spot from Nov 1. they can be fairly criticised that they are acting as if it is theirs to decide alone.
4. Fishing and Agriculture policies are backward entrenched and for the benefit of rich European countries, and as such can be fairly criticised as racist.
5. the EU is wasteful, bloated, and unrepresentative.
6. It's neoliberal policies are largely enriching global businesses at the expense of the working classes.
We're better off out... (goes the sales pitch)
So if we leave Britain will have a very open immigration policy, won't have debt that allows far right parties to profit, won't be elitist, will be able to do something about EU fishing policies and won't be pro business at the expense of the working classes? All these are things that are already happening in britain and are highly likely to be get worse by leaving the EU. Britain leaving will make us more insular and empower the far right
Ironic if the EU are racist to refugees .... when fear foreign refugees were weaponised by farage himself
@ernielynch I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.
I can fully understand your frustration when the only person willing to engage appears to be chewkw. My advise to you akira would be to look somewhere other than a forum where apparently 99% of the punters backed remain.
"To dismiss roughly half the population as such"
It’s not even close to half the population.
So the UK is leaving the EU because all Leavers are "stupid and racist"? But wait, they're not even close to half the population, how stupid does that make the Remainers?
Ironic if the EU are racist to refugees …. when fear foreign refugees were weaponised by farage himself
It is indeed ironic that Remainers should dismiss Leavers as racists when the EU is inherently racist.
I also often find it ironic that Remainers call Leavers stupid..
