...have they ever received funding under any government ?
Seems crazy...
Leave it alone, get them plebs involved and it would become a disaster.
because our country is ****ing crazy
Because they have you to help them.
Nowt left after bailouts and keeping benefit cheats in Rustlers and Bensons!
and help them I do !
Not really, they've been a mahooosivey well funded Charity since back in the day.
They're loaded.
I've been told that they have turned down the running of the Coastguard Agency that the Govt were trying to palm off on them but they couldn't provide the offshore service that the Govt required.
I'm a huge fan and supporter of the RNLI, always have been, but even I consider the running of the CA a massive step too far.
I also understand, that like mountain rescue people, it is easier not to have 'core' funding from government - and the strings that would be attached.
Scottish govt. on the other hand basically make a donation to the MRT teams, no strings attached. Not sure if RNLI also get it.
because a they don't want it b they don't actually need it?
They don't seem to struggle on the money they do get (though that might just be because that's what we're used to), avoiding the bureaucracy that comes with government funding can only be a good thing.
It is very odd- I don't really understand.
They are not short of a bob or two though. A friend of mine worked for them at the time of the new hq build and they were casting around for things to spend it on so as not to get into hot water with the charity commission for have too many assets.
They serve to save lives at sea, its a tradition with many families (myself included) If the Government were to fund the RNLI, there would be many compromises in boat design, tradition, sense of community, equipment etc etc etc
Who wants a second rate Lifeboat service ? Our RNLI sets the standard around the world and held i very high regard
Ever been on a Trent class or a Severn? You could eat your dinner off the engine room floors. Immaculate. Impeccably kept and maintained, no shortcuts on anything.
Superb service, imagine call me dave and his pals getting their hands in amongst it? They wouldn't be allowed out if it was rough for health and safety and the risks to funding etc etc. Shudder at the prospect.
Because the government would introduce 15 layers of inept management, halve the fleet and double the cost.
We have a superb team at the end of the causeway at HISC and they're all honoury life members of the Club, quite right too.. All amazing bunch of chaps.
"Doffs Sou'wester"
Been on Slacombe's Tamar lifeboat and it's chuffing awesome, 12" travel carbon seats and everyfink.
The only answer you will ever need 🙂
because a they don't want it b they don't actually need it?
Thankfully its one of those services that doesnt get used every day, to fund it would require 2 shifts per day at every station,or on call like retained fire service staff, then the cost of equipment, and supplies would double overnight as various companies doubled the price as its governmnet.Then there are the pensions, the training, the health and safety, and all the new manegers to manage the service.
Best to leave it as a charity run by people withthe help of people who actually care and provide their time free.
to fund it would require 2 shifts per day at every station
If i remember correctly, each station has 2 full time paid staff (Coxswain and Mechanic) on 24hr call out. This applies to the AWB (All Weather Boats Trents, Aruns, Severn's)
The rest of the crew are volunteers, everyday people, joiners, shop keepers, candle stick makers etc
The five yrs + i was crew (Arun and Severn Class) were the unforgettable moments of my life, with some truly amazing people and equipment. I'm humbled to have been part of this fantastic organisation
Put this into the hands of the Government would be a travesty
Big society innit 😉
bravohotel8er - Member
Because the government would introduce 15 layers of inept management, halve the fleet and double the cost.
This.
It never has. In many ways it is a good example of "big society": coastal communities wanted to help their own in danger and hence the lifeboats were born. Now everyone recognises it as a hugely impressive organisation with worldwide respect. It is well funded from donations, legacies and existing investments/endownments - if it were to start being publicly funded donations & legacies would reduce significantly. I also expect costs would rise, and people would grudge working for the government with little thanks etc.
Of course the RNLI aren't the only lifeboat organisation around our coasts, and many of them aren't well funded in part becuase the public 'donate' to the lifeboats but don't discriminate which body they are giving to. Mountain rescue teams are not usually so well funded either, but usually get some sort of "grant" from the police because the statutory duty falls to the police for land based search and rescue. Interestingly the maritime and coastguard agency has a duty to coordinate search and rescue at sea, but I don't think it actually has any duty to execute it themselves.
The government does fund coastal rescue services, its just that the RNLI is independent of them. If you get into trouble in the water the RAF might come and get you, as might the navy, as might the Coastguard. The coastguards remit stretches right out to the edge of our territorial waters, beyond the reach of the RNLI. The RNLI is part of a bigger picture in the same way the British Heart Foundation or Marie Curie or Cancer Research are part of the bigger picture of our health care
Because the government would privatise it who would then introduce 15 layers of inept management, halve the fleet and double the cost so they can make a profit.
Living in a very busy fishing community that supports our town i have to agree with the above posts regarding the funding for the RNLI, it is far more efficient and infinitely fit for purpose ran as charity than any amount of government funding/meddling and targets to meet could ever achieve, can you imagine what it would be like if this ****ing inept bunch of tossers that passes for a government ever got their hands on it - perish the thought.
The RNLI is one of the best supported charities in our town, due to the fact we are primarily a fishing community and everyone in the town has some connection to the fishing fleet or they know of someone that's lost their life out at sea (Solway Harvester/Mhari-L), a few of my mate's are in the local RNLI service in the town and i was brought up wi my father being a Skipper in the 70'80's and most of my mates in the town are on the fishing boats, either deckhands or skippers - it's not an easy job, in fact it is quite possibly one of the most horrific jobs you could wish to do if any of the stories or videos of 30ft+ waves crashing over the boat are anything to go by, my mate is the skipper of the King Challenger below and you would not get me out to sea wi him for any amount of money.
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The RNLI do a cracking job as it is and they have the most up to date boats and technology available, if the Government ever got their hands on it the accountants and penny pinchers would destroy the service without question.
The RNLI does not accept government support, for the reasons several people have mentioned; it's to remain free from all interference from outside bureaucracy, which would almost inevitably end up with the charity being compromised in its aims.
Despite what some might [i]like[/i] to believe, it's nothing to do with Government inaction, or having no money to fund the RNLI.
Their raffle alone brings in several million pounds...
...and I always donate when there's a collection around. I can't take part in the raffle, sadly.
One of the best organisations this country has ever produced, nothing else like it.
Same goes for air ambulances, funded by charities. Richard Hammond did the Helicopter Heroes series for nothing as a thank-you to Yorkshire Air Ambulance for rescuing him after the rocket-car crash. The increase in donations as a result of their raised profile from the show bought a second helicopter...
crashtestmonkey...
That argument doesn't really stack up with air ambulances. The crew are all fully paid and on site waiting to go. There are 'jobs' to be done even if they are not top of the list that would justify a helo, so the resource needn't be redundant and can still reduce pressure on ground crews if deployed wisely. There is a statutory duty to move sick people to hospital (albeit not to fly them). In Scotland air support is (to all intents and purposes) 100% government funded. Presumably someone is doing a cost benefit analysis somewhere?
- cost of tying up road vehicles for long time
- cost of crew / vehicles being able to respond to remote areas in acceptable times = more crew on standby in the middle of nowhere?
- implications of a 4+ hour road job 1 hour before the end of a shift
- costs of treatment for those who are delayed getting to hospital
- implications of long term care if a delay in getting people to hospital makes the long term treatment worse
- potentially the cost of having some facilities in shetland / western isles which would be very little used but need to be available (e.g. service is used for relatively 'routine' transport not just major trauma cases).
Why nobody south of the border has come to the same sums is interesting.
. There is a statutory duty to move sick people to hospital (albeit not to fly them).
Sorry but that's not true.
If the Government were to fund the RNLI, there would be many compromises in boat design, tradition, sense of community, equipment etc etc etc
..in other words the service would be run down to a cost not up to a standard.
I think a lot of people would be surprised at the organistaions you'd sort of assume receive local council or central government funds, who actually don't.
And that's before Dave and his chums started their Big Society (Real meaning: lets remove all the funding from everyone, and then tell them to deliver the same service for free) wheeze.
That argument doesn't really stack up with air ambulances.
I wasn't making a right/wrong argument, just highlighting how much money is raised through charity to fund such services. If a regional charity can afford something as expensive to buy/lease/run as a helicopter, its no surprise a national charity with ties to numerous coastal communities can thrive.
Why nobody south of the border has come to the same sums is interesting
They've just done this for police helicopters, forming the National Police Air Service. Which was an opportunity to slash the number of aircraft, crews and bases, and sell it to the populace as being able to provide [i]more[/i] cover 🙄
Not sure about england but:Sorry but that's not true.
s45 (read together with other sections including s37) of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978 states it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to make such provision as he thinks necessary for securing that ambulances and other means of transport are available for the conveyance of persons suffering from illness or of other persons for whom such transport is reasonably required in order to avail themselves of any service under the 1978 Act.
I suspect you are confusing a "statutory duty" and "duty of care". There is a statutory duty to provide ambulances. An ambulance is defined elsewhere in legislation as a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of conveying sick, injured or disabled persons.
That does not mean we're obliged to transport them, it's belief that people seem to have and is taking along time for people to realise. When we arrive on scene we're able to assess a situation and provide the necessary response, that may be transport, treat on scene, refer to other health cares or no action and any pretty much any combination of these. We've progressed along way since 1978.
I suspect you are confusing a "statutory duty" and "duty of care". There is a statutory duty to provide ambulances. An ambulance is defined elsewhere in legislation as a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of conveying sick, injured or disabled persons
No. You are the one who said we have to transport I'm not the one getting mixed up.
I think this is a crucial point in the evolution of man, a seismic shift, history in the making. I think, for the first time ever, 100% of posters on a STW forum thread are in complete agreement about something:
[b]The RNLI are great.[/b]
Has this level of agreement ever been reached before on this forum?
(edit:, just noticed petty argument developing about transporting patients. There is always someone) 🙄
I think this is a crucial point in the evolution of man, a seismic shift, history in the making. I think, for the first time ever, 100% of posters on a STW forum thread are in complete agreement about something:The RNLI are great.
More seismically - not only are the RNLI great, but they're better without government interference
More seismically - not only are the RNLI great, but they're better without government interference
Too much, I need to go and lie down.
Prior to this thread I thought STW only agreed on the following:
Bikes are good
Daily Mail is bad
Piers Morgan is a tool
McMooter has nice piles
drac - I think you are reading too much into the exact words I used. The point being there is a statutory provision for an ambulance service, there is no such provision for a rescue at sea.
franksinatra - don't get carried away, the RNLI does great work and is full of great people but it is still a behemoth of an organisation and not every part of it is great! Even though it is a charity it almost certainly spends its money unwisely at times. BBSB is still write though it would only get worse if whitehall got involved.
Just the same as Mountain Rescue (though for the most part they're not quite so loaded as RNLI).
No money but no interference from Gov.
Mountain Rescue DO receive money from Government (and that includes the cash Alex gave the Scottish teams) in the form of a grant to (go some, but not all of the way) cover VAT on the running and equipment costs they incur. The RNLI don't receive this grant as they are exempt, under and EU ruling, from VAT.
There's a renewed campaign going through the European Parliament at the moment, led by a British MEP, to get the same exemption for MRTs...
The point being there is a statutory provision for an ambulance service, there is no such provision for a rescue at sea.
That's better saying there is a statutory right for an Ambulance to carry the sick is wrong, we spend an awful lot of time and expense trying to educate people it's not the case. That was my point.
No idea as to the answer of origional question but I support them and was very grateful they exist when I worked on a ship even if I never needed their services.
If you see an old lady outside the local Co-op with a collecting tin give her some cash for the RNLI as it may be my mum!
if you want to donate to the rnli, and you should because the guys in the stations and on the boats are an amazing lot, give money directly to a station and not to the charity as a whole. better to buy kit for a boat/crew than pay for expenses for a suit in the poole hq.
if you want to donate to the rnli, and you should because the guys in the stations and on the boats are an amazing lot, give money directly to a station and not to the charity as a whole. better to buy kit for a boat/crew than pay for expenses for a suit in the poole hq.
Yeah, cos having your massive organisation run professionally is a really bad thing.
I was looking at the latest RNLI raffle mailing today, apparently it costs £32,000 for a 'D' Class inshore boat. Even though I live around 50-70miles from the coast, depending on which bit I visit, I always give to collectors. There are other small coastal rescue teams as well, who do fantastic work, but struggle by on local donations, like BARB in Burnham-on-Sea, who, IIRC, we're called out over 200 times last year! Those calls are almost always due to stupid emmets who ignore the soft sand and mud signs, and walk or drive into the danger area and get stuck. They were, I think, the first rescue team to buy a hovercraft through public donations after one heartbreaking tragedy, and I always give to them as well.
I've sometimes thought that it ought to be possible for RNLI funds to have a facility to help such teams, as they have common cause, and the hovercraft can get onto the mudflats that rescue boats can't get to.
I think the RNLI is something we Brits can be truly proud of.