I've never driven one so am I missing on anything? If you were to choose between a car with a 1.6 manual petrol engine or a 1.7 automatic petrol engine, the rest being the same (body, make, etc.), which one would you go for? And why?
Auto every time, so easy to drive in heavy traffic, which we seem to have a lot of around here.
In town traffic - stop / go pedal easier with a bad hip.
Are they less fuel efficient or is it just a myth?
My mum drives one as has poor control on her left leg due to MS so cannot use a clutch. Other than that I cannot really see the benefit...well imagine they are nice round town or stuck in traffic.
People who drive on motorways alot drive automatics due to stop/start syndrome. Apparently it stops aching clutch leg.
I use to think the same till I had a car with an automatic clutch system. It was great at traffic lights/sitting in queues of traffic. Got a standard clutch now and miss it 🙁
Lived in the States 15 yrs ago where everything is automatic and I've driven them ever since.
They are just soooo nice compared to all that shifty/clutchy malarkey. Recently bought a Porsche with manual and sooooo wish it was an auto - and the Posrche auto is faster than the manual too!
Other cars in the family are a cheapy Isuzu Bighorn auto and a Kia Sedona auto... loverly!
for me - big engined comfort orientated long distance car .....auto box
Small engined tin box - manual box had a 1.5 auto mazda 323 as hire and it was god awful slow to drive and woefully inefficient. My missus manual version was quicker and more efficient.
Used to have a Metro 1.6 auto which was basically a dodgem car.
What about a Honda Civic Coupe 1.7 V-tec auto? Cheap, looks fine, seems a reasonable buy as a long-distance car as most Preludes are shot, stolen or both and Mrs Hairychested wants a Civic.
Currently drive an auto, but as soon as I can get rid I will be doing so. I understand that auto makes more sense if you just use your car for going from a to b, but I enjoy the actual driving as well and auto just doesn't cut it.
Auto for me now, and for many years.
Although you'd need a bigger difference on cc to get the same 'kick', but if you are looking at 1.6/1.7 probably 'kick' is not what you are after...
I don't know why anyone wants to drive a manual myself, just don't see why you'd want to put yourself through the constant stop/start.
Yes, they are worse on fuel (about 2mpg on mine), not enough to make me want to drive a manual and a bit slower (on my car 0-60 in 6.3sec for manual and 7.4sec for auto)
IMO auto also are faster, due mainly to when you lift off the gas, the car just carries on 😆
And if anyone says they are 'boring' or how they like to 'drive' a car, just come for a drive with me on a fast/bendy A road.
Every time I get in my octavia I wish I had spend an extra £1000 on the DSG gearbox. They are brilliant in faster VAGs like the 3.2, make it quicker, safer and easier to drive.
I also wonder if indicating on roundabouts for example would be better if shifting from first to second wasn't an issue.
I used to have a Honda S2000 and the gear box on that was a joy to use. I swore that I would never own an automatic but circumstances dictated that I had to get an auto as I do a lot of work miles. I'd now have to say that the auto makes a big difference to driving especially in town, it takes so much hassle away and makes driving easier as you don't have to worry about gears. If I were to get a weekend/play car I would have a manual, for everything else an auto.
i got mine by default really (needed a new car, had really poor credit, the best deal i found was a really low mileage xsara 1.6 auto) but it's mostly been great. the box slips a lot these days; may just need an oil change but it may need replacing and i don't know if i can be bothered with the hassle of it all any more.
i think i'd go back to manual once i get a new vehicle though.
Bloody awful things can't stand automatics and yes boring and I like to drive. Come in the ambulance with me and I'll show you the difference. Our service has dumped automatics as they were too slow, uneconomical, more expensive to buy, run and repair.
Lets all drive ambulances then.
I like to 'drive' my car. I 'drive' my 300bhp auto VR4, and it handles like a car half its size and weight due to the fancy AYC and 4wd, but is it as much fun as my old MR2, or my wife's wee MX5? Not a patch. Half the fun is heel-and-toe and slick gear changes, and you simply don't get it in an auto.
Bloody awful things x 2 - my dad had one when I was growing up. Hated it. Surges at traffic lights, you can't engine brake, lumbers along and expensive to fix the gearbox, which will inevitably fail. And they are more thirsty on the gas.
Very unsuited to NZ conditions too unless you never overtake, might be OK cruising the motorways in Europe. Took ages to drop a gear when you accelerated to overtake, and the manual gear change screamed a bit going down the way.
Best thing ever was column-change cars - bring those back !! I had a Ford Falcon it was ace.
It's worth noting that not all autos are alike. My Metro had Constant Variable Transmission - it wasn't trying to do the job of a manual with 5 gears. Hence the dodgem car feel and lots of fun.
[i]Bloody awful things x 2 - my dad had one when I was growing up. Hated it. Surges at traffic lights, you can't engine brake, lumbers along and expensive to fix the gearbox, which will inevitably fail. And they are more thirsty on the gas.[/i]
If we are going back that far, manuals are bloody awful things, those Morris's had no syncro on half the gears, and you had to double-declutch just to get it to select one!
Seriously, if you've never driven a decent modern auto you should.
I also wonder if indicating on roundabouts for example would be better if shifting from first to second wasn't an issue.
auto and indicater stalk on the right, you can eat a 5 course chinese banquet on the move 😆
Steering column autos also would improve the access for getting a nifty "Taylforth" 8)
Autos great for towns, less fun for " real driving" or for snowy conditions.
Merc CL - Auto because that is what they come as. Great comfortable mile muncher. No need to think as it does everything for you.
Honda Integra R - Manual because that is what they come as. Great screaming demon that you want to think about the exact moment of every shift.
Isuzu TF - Manual because that is what the come as. 2wd, 4wd, 4wd low ratio. You choose what gear and confiog you want as you know what you are driving through/towing etc and an auto box doesn't.
Summary - Effortlessness - choose an auto. Fun - choose a manual. Special case - Choose what is appropriate
I think that if you like to drive 'enthusiatically' in a manual, you'll need to spend a lot to get a good auto box, otherwise you'll be kicking yourself and the gap in the foot well where the clutch pedal should be.
Discovery 3 auto is a lot better than Discovery 2 auto, and in these the auto was most useful for reversing trailers as one less thing to think about. Merc E-Class with 7 speed auto, wouldn't even consider the manual, changes were fast and it went like a rocket effortlessly. Rover 216 auto box, woeful thing, you'd have to be bone idle with no interest in getting anywhere or cars.
Summary - Effortlessness - choose an auto. Fun - choose a manual. Special case - Choose what is appropriate
Not really IMO - had a 2.0l T audi A4 S-line which was a manual as my last vehicle & a 2.0T Golf GTI with DSG and flappy paddles now. Dont think ill be wanting another manual (even though my other vehicle is a manual) the DSG is amazing.
Auto for me and the current one even has a parking brake built in. If you stop on a hill just press the brake pedal a bit firmer and a light comes on indicating the parking brake has been set. Leave it in gear and when you pull off just press the accelerator and you are away. Lazy, yes. One more thing to go wrong, yes. But very convenient.
Having said that we just bought a Yaris for the kids and it's much better for nipping down to the shops.
My wife does 90% of her driving in town so loves automatics. I tend to drive outside town more so prefer a manual - although I do quite often take her car if I'm driving into town.
Her car has a CVT transmission and it only seems slightly less fuel efficient that my car (we both have Honda Jazz's).
I think a lot on this thread need to drive a modern auto to be able to comment.
That said*, the whole auto V's manual 0-60 times are bullshit, does anyone actually have a clue how 0-60 times are done on a manual car?
* I would rather have a manual every time 8)
I can get as much out of my 2.3T SAAB Auto as I did in my 911. A simple tap on the accelerator and the auto drops a a gear and takes off. I got an auto because I was doing heavy mileage (30k-40k) a year so it made sense, that and I'm lazy 😉
I do 1000 miles per week in my Golf Tdi DSG and wouldn't change it for anything. It really is a life changing bit of kit.
Drive it as a clutchless manual if you need to press on a bit or stick it in full DSG mode for those stuck in slow traffic crawls.
DSG isn't really auto though as such though is it.
I thought the early DSG were renowned for being a bit poop too?
Why do people drive automatics?
Well, disability, for one thing.
I love driving "ours", great for driving in traffic, excellent mpg, but not sure I'd pay the £1000 extra for an auto box if we didn't have to.
[i]I also wonder if indicating on roundabouts for example would be better if shifting from first to second wasn't an issue.[/i]
how is it an issue?
If you're queuing to get on the roundabout - the only reason you'd actually be in first - you have plenty of time to put the indicator on [i]before[/i] you need tp put it in second; unless your exit is immediately after you've joined, you're already in second (or third if it's a big motorway roundabout) by the time you need to change your signal
simples
I have driven old style torque converter / epicyclic gearbox cars and they are awful. No engine braking, creep, changes gear when it wants not when you want - utterly horrid.
CVT bikes are better ( not driven a cvt car) but you still have the lack of engine braking and it disengaging the clutch when it wants.
double clutch gearboxes look like a good option tho.
Driven a few autos, from high end BMs, nissan micras, mitsubishi's inc tiptronics. Never liked any of them to be honest, just too little feedback from the car, feels a bit too detatched somehow. It's like when you get your passenger to change gear for you, it doesn't matter how good a driver they are and how quickly and smoothly they can shift when you dip the clutch, it just isn't the same as doing it youself. I'm sure a fairly top end box like a ferrari with flappy paddles would be stunning to drive, but I've never met a consumer car auto that I enjoyed.
Sure they make sitting in traffic a little easier, but it's at the expense of some part of your soul dying every time you get in it. I don't buy my mountain bike for the times I get stuck in traffic commuting, I wouldn't buy a car for it either - getting a diesel was as far as I could go down that route 🙂
Each to his own though. But yes, generally they are less efficient as they generally have fewer gears than a manual (so can't get into the ideal rev range for your speed) and lose some power to the conversion process. CVT's are an interesting inbetween, never driven one. Imagine they're even more dead and soul-less feeling but should be more efficient than manual.
I like an auto in a high powered car
I hate auto's in low powered cars
When I was buying my pick-up and was looking at Navara's I wanted an auto but I was put off by the poor fuel economy - you drop about 5mpg.
DSG not really an auto??????????????????????????
It goes up and down thru the gears (without a clutch pedal) on its own - whats that then????
The option to choose when it changes manually is just a bonus
So all auto's are the same as ambulances - WTF! They are ALL different, just like all cars drive/handle differently. My BMW 330Ci is an auto and has the 3 stage gearbox - normal, sports and also sequential and it doesn't jerk in any of it's modes, is quick in all it's modes and is very quick in sports mode too. Total mile muncher and still a blast round country roads even with the auto box. Love it.
my mate had an old Rover 820 auto, dreadful thing, very slow. I loved his "kick down" pedal though as I used to call it the loudness pedal.
When he hit it, the car just got louder, not faster.
Drove a Saab 9-5 auto with 175 BHP.
that was nice.
So all auto's are the same as ambulances - WTF! They are ALL different, just like all cars drive/handle differently. My BMW 330Ci is an auto and has the 3 stage gearbox - normal, sports and also sequential and it doesn't jerk in any of it's modes, is quick in all it's modes and is very quick in sports mode too. Total mile muncher and still a blast round country roads even with the auto box. Love it.
Tis true, they are all different. But the vast majority are horrible. I've not tried the 330Ci, but if it's anything like a 5 series box it's 'orrible. 🙂
I have tried a 5 series and the 330 I have is an M Sport and they are totally different boxes. It's far far better 😀
Far more sports cars are being fitted with auto boxes as they shift quicker than any driver can and they can put electronics in them to help with performance. One mans meat is another's poison I guess.
Given the money and the choice of a new car, I'd have a DSG 'box; auto for slooooooow city traffic, which isn't [i]that[/i] often for me, usually just the occasional trip into Bath Or Bristol, then flippy paddles for A/B-road driving. Generally I prefer manual because I use engine braking a lot, especially when the roads are slippery. Drove an auto Buick Skylark in LA for a week, and the column shift auto made perfect sense there.
I always used to sneer at automatics, and then I got one. Now I quite like them.
I blame the tories
CZ, so what you're saying is there is no engine braking with an auto gear box. Am I correct?
I noticed that certain Merc's slowed for bends etc but fast on straights (following and being followed). I posted a ? on Pistonheads and someone mentioned 'supercharged merc's and autobox's arent a great-combo as apperently they have a habit of kicking up or down mid-bend'.....EEK!
Nothing against auto's in general- some are better for efficiency/0-60 etc like the dual-clutches and if your doing alot of work miles its less stress on you.
I drive automatic because it makes round town easy and I don't like driving particularly.
Bugger - joke didn't make sense with intervening posts! 🙂
I wonder if a thread about auto gears on bikes would create so much interest on this forum. Or anything else about bikes for that matter.
I have both, and i like them both for different driving. My fun car is a manual and is great for driving around the English country roads, my other car is an auto, but it also has 7 gears so screw changing gear that many times!!
Never liked auto's with turbo diesels - seem to kick down, just as the boost comes in and suddenlly you don't need the torque, your revving and getting nowhere fast. It ruined my merc for me, can say I enjoyed my automatic 4WD's either. I don't really feel I have control of the engine braking. Can't see me owning another one.
If you spend so much time sitting in queues of traffic - you're part of the problem...
A bicycle has only two pedals you know.
[i]Tis true, they are all different. But the vast majority are horrible. I've not tried the 330Ci, but if it's anything like a 5 series box it's 'orrible. [/i]
I've an older 5 series with the 6-speed auto box - can't see what there is to dislike? Changes are so smooth its difficult to actually count the gears, and its got the sport 'side' for keeping the revs up plus the sequential/manual side for holding gears.
[i]so what you're saying is there is no engine braking with an auto gear box. Am I correct? [/i]
Pretty much, a bit like a 2-stroke motorbike, although if you've driven neither it doesn't help you...
I'm talking about column change manual transmission - showing my age as somebody has pointed out, but that made driving much more fun ! Although did mean when you went to drive a floor change you would attempt to tear off the indicator stick for the first few kms.
so what you're saying is there is no engine braking with an auto gear box. Am I correct?Pretty much, a bit like a 2-stroke motorbike, although if you've driven neither it doesn't help you...
2-stroke motorbike? Loved them to bits some years ago, sounds properly bonkers to me.
5 series blah, Merc slck x blah, Porch blah, blah. Honda 2000 blah, blah, blah.
Not sure what you're waving but I doubt you've got enough of what one would normally wave to wave it.
Given the money and the choice of a new car, I'd have a DSG 'box; auto for slooooooow city traffic, which isn't that often for me, usually just the occasional trip into Bath Or Bristol, then flippy paddles for A/B-road driving. Generally I prefer manual because I use engine braking a lot,
Think the DSG does have proper engine braking?
Flippy paddles on the steering wheel only on the Golf GTI/Leon FR/Leon Cupra/Octavia VRS etc. spec cars I think? Lower levels with "just" the DSG auto box probably only have the stick (could be wrong).
Whatever, DSG certainly on my list. Had far too much "clutch foot" getting stuck in random jams on the Autobahn.
If you get a DSG get rid of it after 70k miles!
OP
Why do people drive automatic cars?
they're easier
Next
I drive an auto (with flappy paddles) because the manual box BMW make can't handle the torque of a 335d engine 😈
It's a pretty decent 6 speed ZF box though and sport mode is super "aggressive" - also stops you stalling and is handly in town. I very rarely use the paddles - the sport mode just gets it right almost all the time.
The other car is a basic manual - I enjoy both.
Right.
Honda autos are famously rubbish.
Traditional autos use fluid coupling and are very heavy and inefficient which means worse MPG and slower, and you can't tow unless you fit an oil cooler (I think). They are also terrible to drive on windy roads, which is why a lot of people still think they are rubbish.
Modern autos like the VW DSG gearbox are actually almost the same inside as a manual gearbox, just computer controlled, and are as fast and almost as efficient as manuals. In the case of VW, the new 7-speed auto is actually MORE economical than a manual, but not the slightly older 6 speed one (supposedly).
You CAN very much engine brake in an auto, even a traditional old skool one. Most of them have a D4 or D3 setting (or similar) which means that it'll go no higher than 3rd or 4th, which helps if you want to drive fast on windy roads or engine brake in mountains. In a VW DSG box it engine brakes the same as a manual (since it's the same internally) but you can also have full manual control so you can select any gear you like. Speaking from just having got back from the Rockies driving a traditional American auto and engine braking all over the place.
I got a DSG auto because I do a lot of motorway, and it's great when you get to heavy traffic. I got thoroughly sick of faffing about with the clutch for 45 mins on the M4. Auto makes it much easier. I do really like it in normal driving, but there are two issues for me. One is that it can be a little jerky in car parks and stuff, you have to be quite gentle with it; the other, which is worse, is that it's really hard to pull out of junctions fast. Even in 'sport' mode the car won't let the engine revs go high enough to spool up the turbo before letting out the clutch. But even with those two flaws, I still like it. Although if I were buying again, I'm not sure, mainly because I regret the 2mpg hit on fuel economy.
Even if you don't have the flappy paddles on a VAG DSG, you can still change gear manually with the stick. But I never do this, as in Sport mode (once you're moving) it is great for fast driving as it keeps the revs higher to keep the turbo going.
they're easierNext
I never really had that much trouble driving a manual. Do you really find it that difficult?
No matter how easy something is, jon, it can always be easier. I find manual driving easy, but auto is easier. See?
[i]also stops you stalling[/i]
It would appear you're right Tortoise. As skill substitute.
[i]"clutch foot"[/i]
Well if you insist on filling every tiny gap in front of you the instant it opens.
mol - our car for NZ travelling was a Honda Accord 2.0 auto - the car was actually really good (and we lost less than £100 when we sold it) but the box was tragically poor. It liked changing down just at the wrong moment and making us look like cretinous chavs. Other than that, it was superb.
Most ultra powerful cars (with loads of torque) now have some form of auto - from AMG Mercs to Ferraris. I think part of the attraction is that they stop stupid mistakes - imagine a missed gear/mashed cogs with supercar bhp and torque - not good at all. Autos allow a bit of "stupidity" prevention. I'd certainly hate to botch a gearchange in the Bimmer - and however good anyone is at driving, the odd mistake happens. In a weedy car - nasty noise. In a powerful car - gearbox explosion.
And did I mention that autos also stop you stalling which is handy.
Sure they make sitting in traffic a little easier, but it's at the expense of some part of your soul dying every time you get in it
CK wtf did you take this morning? 🙂 If you think that 2 hours on the M4 on a Monday morning nourishes your soul in ANY way.. then.. well, you're lucky. Weird, but lucky. All I want from my commuter is comfort, peace and quiet, and ease of use.
And I did find it annoying to have to use the clutch all the time, obsessive gap-closing or not. In fact, the worst is when you have to drive at a constant speed that is lower than you can do in 1st gear. And that's happened to me loads before you start moaning.
I quite fancied a Civic diesel when I was looking for a new car, one of the reasons I didn't get one was that there's no auto - partly because I just wanted a motorway cruiser and partly because the wife finds the auto a lot easier. However there is an auto in the Petrol but it gets terrible reviews.
No matter how easy something is, jon, it can always be easier. I find manual driving easy, but auto is easier. See?
Just cos something is easier it doesn't make it better. I was responding to this;
they're easierNext
which is one of those annoying 'I've said my bit, end of...' type statements. The fact that's it's easier (marginally) isn't a reason to drive one. See?
[i]The fact that's it's easier (marginally) isn't a reason to drive one.[/i]
So what are your reasons then? Using more fuel? Greenhousing the planet a little bit faster? Removing one of the built in safety factors, engine braking? Adding potentially dangerous overides for example the Toyota lock out?
Edukator - I don't drive an auto, and don't want to - that's my point.
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Nah sorry mate, it's auto only. I'll stick with my hardcore drivers car and it's manual box thanks.
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Are Auto's generally more reliable long term, cause less stress to the engine, etc?
i.e.
For the folk here who cannot afford to buy a new car, yep that's me 😉
If you had a choice of two totally identical used cars, say with 80k on the clock, FSH, six years old, but one was an auto and one was a manual, would it make more sense to go for the auto?
ski - depends a lot on the car.
Older autos tend to be more annoying but some are decent. They suit grunty cruiser type cars. They are hateful in little town cars.
People drive autos for the same reason they ride singlespeeds.
ski - depends a lot on the car.Older autos tend to be more annoying but some are decent. They suit grunty cruiser type cars. They are hateful in little town cars.
Yep, thought it might not be that simple a question to answer 😉
ski - tell me what car (or cars if you're looking at several), I'll tell you if it's better as an auto or manual!
Removing one of the built in safety factors, engine braking?
You can engine brake in an auto, and modern ones do so automatically.
Adding potentially dangerous overides for example the Toyota lock out?
You can shift into neutral in an auto simply enough.
Using more fuel?
Also not the case necessarily these days.