[Closed] Why are our pubs dying?

Society is just changing, if I meet up with mates midweek then it's generally for a coffee. I would not even consider a pub midweek.

jimmy, you were going to the wrong pubs...

[url= http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=297938 ]officially the best pub in Britain[/url]

i understand that pubs don't make much profit-per-pint, and so they need us in there for quite a while, often, drinking lots, to make a decent profit.

i don't know anyone with lots of spare time; there's too much diy, working, climbing and biking going on in my circle of friends, in a few years i suspect there'll be kids coming along to complicate things aswell.

i sneak in a pint or 2 during the week, then a few on friday and saturday nights. i'm a rubbish customer, and suspect i'm not unique.

it's not the price of beer that stops me drinking more, i just hate hang-overs.

The Smoking ban isnt killing pubs its pubs killing themselves.

If I think of the amount of pubs that I find appealling in Manchester- they are a fair distance away from me.

Too many focus on price (Wetherspoons are horrifically dull), others are drab and souless places. Alot of pubs are fitted out in newish yet horrific 80's decor. Why do some pub refurbers think this is nice?!

In addition, alot of the places loose the focus of what they are- they stock the standard pints, wife beater and a couple of other generic-same pub pumps. Pubs that stock Thwaites and Robinsons are bland IMO.

Customers definitely like variety now- something different and interesting. The old guard of punters are dying out (along with their fags).

Whens the last time you went into any pub and thought 'glasses of wine taste fantastic here'?

Same with the bar food in alot of them and those sodding fruit machines etc.

The Head of Steam and the Grove in Huddersfield are trying. Still souless places mind.

The only place that I can think of locally that I actually like is the Marble in Chorlton (3miles from home).

Geronimo - Member
when we think of pubs what do we think of?
This..
this.. or this..

Yes.

Society is just changing, if I meet up with mates midweek then it's generally for a coffee. I would not even consider a pub midweek.

Aye. Gone are the days when the working man went to the pub for his social life every night to avoid the trouble and strife. Now we go down to the Gym or sit in a seperate room talking to other Anglosaxon men on the internet.

Plus, as a rule I dont like any public house that doesnt allow dogs in.

I would not even consider a pub midweek.

but I don't want the kind of friends who think sitting all evening in a pub or drinking is a sensible allocation of time

yeah, I mean we all just sit there silently supping pint after pint

A good local is somewhere where you can drop in for a quick one and see someone you havn't for a while, catch up with local news, get invited out on a fishing trip or to take part in a friendly game of Cricket, maybe have a game of darts or dominos, try an ale you've not had before, get warm in front of the fire on a wet and cold winter's night and swap adventure stories, etc etc etc

It's a social occasion, a bit like a bogtrotters ride (I imagine), except that instead of standing around chatting on the side of a hill you do it in the warmth with a pint in your hand.

It's a social occasion, a bit like a bogtrotters ride (I imagine),

yeah, half an hour is OK 🙂

Hora - we all know you only frequent gay cabaret bars anyway. Chorlton has a few great pubs as well as the Marble. The Trev is my favourite. A proper boozer.

I love what happened a couple of years ago. A gang attempted an armed robbery on the place. The regulars took exception to this invasion of their personal space, dissarmed them, gave them a kicking, then sent them packing. Now thats the kind of pub I like drinking in 🙂

The Trev's just an older persons boozer. Generic beers ontap with two ales though. Its got alot of potential.

Whats that one at the 4 banks? At least they offer numerous different beers to tempt (and keep) new customers going in/interested.

Trev does allow dogs though. Thats a brucey-bonus. I love dogs in pubs. It changes the atmosphere of the place and chills people.

I love dogs in pubs. It changes the atmosphere of the place and chills people.

I hate dogs in pubs, they slobber on you, beg for food and smell bad 🙁

As much as this pains me to write, I actually agree with Hora on this pubs are killing themselves, agood pub offering what local punters want will always thrive.

I have there fabulous pubs within a ten minute walk of my flat.

1 a Witherspoons that sells Real Ale
1 a Local pub with a Microbrewery out back

These two charge under £2 a pint and that's in London, the other two are more upmarket and aiming at the yummy mummy, more cash brigade and have a great beer and wine selection.

They're all very busy and in the pub with the microbrewery business is booming.

Good pubs do well, it's a case of knowing your locals which sadly too many aren't really bothering with or alternatively finding a niche to fill.

Thats a badly behaved and mistreated dog SFB.

Why are pubs dying?

Think of it this way. Would you go into a Indian restaurant that had 70's old decor, a limited menu with bland food?

No- before anyone mentions that shithole in West Didsbury 🙄

When I worked in a pub, it was fantastically busy every night (this is about 15 years ago mind you). But the landlord made an effort. He did themed food nights, real home-cooked food (their steak pie was amazing and they couldn't make enough to keep up with demand), pub Olympics, malt whiskey night (he would choose two from his collection of around 80 and heavily discount them). There was an annual bonfire party with great fireworks and free nibbles, a tug-o-war over the river on boxing day against the rival pub on the other side of the bridge.

Basically he MADE the place, he made people want to go there. I worked there for about 8 years and knew loads of people, people I still know to talk to now. I even met my wife there. There was a real sense of community spirit about the place.

It is a shit-hole now and every time I pass, no matter the day or time, it is empty.

Thinking back.

When I lived in Croydon I loved the Oval. A mix of people, lots to chose from and things to do (events).

When I lived in West Hampstead there was Scruffy Murphy's. The name says it all 😀

The pubs where I am are all thriving, but then again this is Aberystwyth where about 1 in 3 people are students.

Most of these pubs are actually quite samey, selling the same collection of horse-p*ss, battery acid and a token Welsh "bitter," the infamous Admiral being the drink of choice for many (4 vodkas and an energy drink)

There are however a handful that do things properly. There's a Wetherspoons that's reasonably nice and sells various beers for £1.80. It is however IMO outdone by the Ship and Castle, which despite being about 70p extra a pint is thriving with a large selection of good-quality beers (they seem to do better than Spoons at this, certainly at the moment), pool table and friendly staff.

Back home there are only two pubs in my village, both of which are often half-empty and with almost no one under 30 present. People my age tend to go to the pubs down in town instead for a few drinks and then on to the only nightclub in town. These pubs are completely void of character mostly and are overpriced. They only exist because people need to get taxis into town and the drivers (understandably) don't like driving wasted people around.

Having spent my uni days at aber id say the difference is
there is **** all else to do in that town but drink!

i strongly suspect liver disease is way above the national average

but i think mf has it right if you make it good enough they will come
a lot of boozers rely on crap food and crap beer and the footy as their only draw

No- before anyone mentions that shithole in West Didsbury

Er, you do know it's moved into the old video shop next door?

PS Good to chat on Sat - let me know if you're interested in the car.

But the landlord made an effort. Basically he MADE the place, he made people want to go there.

This sounds just like the Red Lion in Bloxham (Oxfordshire - a village that still has 4 pubs). It was run by a husband and wife who, long before the concept of the gastro pub, got in a decent chef and served good food, with themed nights (French, Mexican, etc.). Beer was local (Hook Norton, natch) and he created an atmosphere that had the place heaving.

It was bought by Fullers, who changed the basis of what it did well and the place was instantly deserted.

The landlord and landlady then took over another local pub (Say & Sele Arms, Broughton), and immediately created somewhere for his old clientele to go.

As I said up there ^^^^ all pubs need a USP to get people to go.

I'm pleased to say that my local is doing well and always pretty full. It's location has been key though you'd have a fair hike to any other pub or shop. So Friday after work it's heaving.
He does a great St Georges day mini beer festival to showcase local breweries. Good BBQs and a popular firework night as well as occasional bands. He seems to be pretty clued up i.e he knows if has bands every week on a certain day he'll loose a percentage of regulars that don't want to listen to it, if he is carefull with planning he'll get new if only temporary business as well as keeping his old customers.
Good little place.
The Hare in Southcott Village, and only thirty odd yards away 🙂

Er, you do know it's moved into the old video shop next door?

They've probably taken that deep-pile dirty carpet with them....

PS Good to chat on Sat - let me know if you're interested in the car.

Cleaned up/ and now advertised my Subaru Forester. Plan is pick up a reliable snotter (a STWer's Primera on another other thread for bike and baby duties) and then I can have my car for 80% of my journey's (including the weekly 50mile curry run) 😀

😐

Ahhh

On topic- the pubs have been getting soo bland over the years that I've actually gravitated towards really rough pubs or oddities.

I think the pubs are their own victims. Innovate or die.

Here (Switzerland) it’s just Saturday night the ‘bars’ are packed. Friday just a quick meet to plan sports the next day. There are festival days when the bars are crowded but these are rare – it’s just not in the culture.

One of my friends runs a pub in Yorkshire, and has seen her turnover go to a record high over the past year, but its in a nice middle class/posh area and completely services the needs of its market.

Some pubs must be going out of business due to Punch. The same friend wanted to take on a lease on a local pub that is in a great location, and used to be be packed. However Punch bought the pub about 5 years ago. Apparently in a Punch pub, the more sucessful you are ie the more you sell, the more of your margin you have to pay to Punch ! Also they only let you supply products bought from them. Hence perhaps why some pubs become empty as its not worth taking on a lease with Punch....

Let them die off.

I've been to the pub maybe 4 times in 3 years.
Don't see the attraction at all now I'm 45 and besides, the British have changed their drinking habits.

Insipid warm, vile white wine, lukewarm weak bitter, cheese & onion crisps, microwave meals, washed out males propping up the bar, stinking loos, dour brown / tobacco decor – yuck! - all very 20th century!

Not helped by all the half-wits with their tobacco and nicotine polluting everyone's lungs in the garden. Yuk!

No thank you.

Innovate or die.

C'est ca exactement. +un.

Ti29er disagree:

the British have changed their drinking habits.

They want to go out. British (maybe generalising) like to investigate and try different things/see different environments. When a pub is bland/chain your own living room has more allure than a blando-no music pub.

Agree!:

Insipid warm, vile white wine, lukewarm weak bitter, cheese & onion crisps, microwave meals, washed out males propping up the bar, stinking loos, dour brown / tobacco deco

Some great posts on here, but I tend to agree with those that say it's changing times that are causing certain pubs to suffer.

I'm 27 and (other than university) there's never been a period in my life where pubs were regularly more than a weekend thing. We no longer live in an age of small, tight knit communities where people worked near to their homes and would pass the pub on the way back in the evening. A huge proportion of the population now drive to industrial estates out of town or to the next town/city to work, so a pint on the way home becomes a lot less inviting. We also move further from home for work, so many aren't so deeply rooted in a local community that the local is full of old friends. Then when we get home there's more choice on the tv, the internet, dvds, computer games, plus I'd wager our homes have become more comfortable, better heated and insulated and generally nicer places to be on a cold winter's evening than they might have been 30 years ago. There's also possibly a perception (whether true or not) that our streets aren't as safe at night as they used to be.

Where I live now in Bath, I have a couple of nasty pubs very close to my home, but the nearest one worth it's salt is about a 15 minute walk - it's a Bath Ales pub that is traditional, but clean and cosy and serves fantastic ales and ciders as well as the odd big brand lager. The more local pubs are dingey old spit and sawdust outfits that feel very unwelcoming to 'outsiders' and are hardly likely to appeal to young women. My prefered local is friendly and open, it feels like a proper English pub and it serves proper English beer if you want it, but the customers are a mixed bag of all ages, sexes and backgrounds and it's just a nice place to be.

The smoking ban has had little to do with it imo, many of the pubs in Bath have no covered smoking area, but the good ones are still packed on a busy night. Pubs are far more pleasant places to be since the ban.

Correction: the smoking ban has driven the stinking filth into the beer gardens, thus making most every beer garden I can think of 'round these parts a most unpleasant experience.

The warmer months, when sitting out in the beer garden was a pleasant enough way of whiling away an hour on a summer's eve was pretty much the only time I (non smoker) ventured out to the 4 local pubs in the village here. Don't bother at all now - I have no interest in breathing in 2nd hand filth.

I mostly used to go to pubs for social stuff and conversation. Its almost impossible in a lot of them now due to big screen TV's. They detract from conversations, you must keep the line of sight clear so cant stand in groups and even if you are lucky enough not to face them, the volume is turned up so loud its hard to talk around it. Its like being trapped in some TV obsessed persons living room instead of going out to do something fun.

I am begining to wonder if people are still capable of chatting or making thier own entertainment as everything has to be supplied complete and not requireing effort - TV, internet, console games and iPod. Its like everyone has lost all imagination and any ability to make the smallest personal effort, it all has to be constantly drip fed to the brain dead.

There's always a Weatherspoon's pub!
Seriouslly, if you look at the rate they've managed to expand, it's an impressive business model in a difficult market.
If you find them too loud then can I suggest the local Conservative club or the Royal British Legion. Pipe and slippers required!

it's an impressive business model

Pubs are dying? No one told Scotland

Beer was always cheap in supermarkets, I remember the days when I could buy a 24 crate of hooch from asda for pocket money, and I was the least-well-pocket-moneyed kid in the village I think! Pubs are very pricey in comparison, in general, in England. Most of my old locals are now nearing the £3 a pint mark, I refuse to pay that sort of cash for the same drink I could have for a quid in the supermarket, in the comfort of my own home, with my mates around.

Pubs formed the very hub of the community

Jesus christ, I hope not. It would be sad day when a drinking establishment formed the hub of a community. As if all the people stopped communicating and meeting up just because theres no communal over-priced alcohol source.

From my own point of view, I've grown up. I have sufficient distractions to mean I never really visit a pub, if I do it's for a special occasion (christmas) or for food. The rest of the time, why bother?

As said above though, not seen many Scottish pubs closing. Loads of shops and businesses but takeaway and pubs seem to be thriving, regardless of smoking bans?

Pubs are dying? No one told Scotland

Ah, I can not wait to return to my love, Byrony bar in Edinburgh for copious amounts of Caledonia80 😀

Many relevant comments on here ! Seems to me that pubs are failing for a variety of reasons.

Why visit a pub?

To drink good quality beer how it should be enjoyed perhaps?

To relax and just chat with people.

To watch people and the world go by.

I probably go at least once or twice a week usually drink two or three pints each time, chat to the staff natter to randoms, maybe watch some sport, sit and read a paper.

I'll fairly routinely head to the pub with a book and read and drink good beer for a couple of hours.

Sitting at home drinking supermarket beer yeah I could do that or I could see what's happening around me and interact with people and drinking good beer how it should be enjoyed.

I like beer and I like proper pubs.

Funny but the way I see it, the smoking ban only seems to have an impact for smokers and on crappy pubs.

All the nice pubs that serve good food and offer good environment for the family don't seems to have suffer from the smoking ban.

I think you should look at things a different way. Drinking is bad, no need to burry your head in the sand it is. Pub have refused to adapt. If you're a tea total like me (and don't get em wrong I love to go to the pub several people on here will confirm) you have choice between coke, diet coke and crappy chemical fruit juices. I'd love a pub that can offer nice soft drinks or at least fresh juices.
Plus most of the pubs are shit dead in terms of entertainments. I will happily go to a pub that offers plenty of live music.

In southampton 2 of the best pubs are owned by the same landlord and offer plenty of entertainment for all kind of people (not the just the loosy student).

I will happily go to a pub that offers plenty of live music.

I would like this if it weren't:
a) Jazz
b) WAY TOO ****ING LOUD OW MY EARS!!

there's a lot of comments being made here by people who seem to equate the term 'pub' with 'clean and carefully decorated establishment offering a relaxed and informal dining experience with a range of interesting and earthy beverages'(restaraunt)
and yet more folk who dislike smelly.. smokey.. boozey.. coarse.. and slightly malevolent drinking holes.. (pubs)

I'm not really sure how these folk qualify to comment on the subject.

I love live bands. KRO bar in Oxford road sometimes has a female singer on Friday nights. I've fallen in love with her over a few pints.

...if I threw my boxer shorts onto the stage do you think I'd be arrested? 😆

I'm not really sure how these folk qualify to comment on the subject.

so you get to define what a pub is ?

I remember an old pub in Bradford, across from the nightclub that we used to visit. We used to pop in for a beer before and watch the circa 50yr old strippers dancing around the bar. Every so often a punter would disapear into the toilet for a long while. We knew this as we used to joke 'and there goes another for a you-know-what' and time him 😯

i think the timing of the smoking ban was coincidental with the closing of alot of pubs and people are trying to use that as an excuse.
Unprofitable pubs were closing down before the ban as they couldn't compete with corporate pubs and increased competition. Trendy pubs are only trendy for a limited period!

Many other changes over the past 20 years are more relevant than the smoking ban. Change of lifestyle, bar prices, more options for free time, less free-spend, cheaper home entertainment, fear of violence, increase in recreational drugs,greenfield housing developments etc.

Go to a Weatherspoons in the afternoon and that's where you'll find all your old men.

so you get to define what a pub is ?

I'm with yunki on this one. If you want to take little Tabatha and Tarquin for a gastronomic delight, go to a restaurant. Or McDonalds if you're a prole with similar desires.

And don't get me started on people who walk into pubs, produce the inevitable Macbook and proceed to ask if they can 'get' a skinny de-caffe latte. Why the * do you think God (or actually.... Satan) invented Satarbucks, you *wit?!!!! Now **** off!!!

Binners - piss off.

If people want it, then someone should be able to supply it. Therefore, if there are people walking into pubs with macbooks and wanting lattes, someone should supply them.

You are not the style police 🙂

Molgrips - Your not kidding. I'm the ANTI-style police. I make the average middle-aged geography teacher look like Jean Paul Gaultier 😀

I concur. Binners makes me look like a Armani model.

I'd say that someone walking into a pub asking for a Latte rather needs to go next door to the cafe.

Pubs are licensed premises for selling alcohol, go to cafe's or juice bars if you want exciting non alcoholic beverages, otherwise stop trying to convert what's centuries old into something it shouldn't be.

Good pubs with good beer and a friendly atmosphere don't have to bother with any of this sort of dross and they do well as a result.

Pubs are licensed premises for selling alcohol

there seems to be a contradiction, as the original poster felt they were at core of the community - to which one might suppose drug taking was largely irrelevent. I would not regret the passing of drinking dens

Good pubs with good beer and a friendly atmosphere

but only if you want beer ?

Stalyvegas in greater Manchester demonstrates what a good pub should have. Lots of girls in little more than belts mixing with lots of pubs that offer allsorts of beverages.

Fantastic. Plus at the end of the night you can either have a Kebab attached to one of the said girls or from a local retailer..

the community - to which one might suppose drug taking was largely irrelevent.

I disagree... I would say that sobriety has very little to do with natural human behaviour.. animals will actively seek out fermenting fruit for it's intoxicating effects and as humans with tools and choice and liesure time and being at the top of the food chain and blah blah blah.. I would counter that is the most natural thing in the world for a human to be intoxicated..
and if community should find it's hub there.. (as it frequently does) then good.

 

animals will actively seek out fermenting fruit for it's intoxicating effects

you just made that up - surely most of the time they have more pressing concerns ?

I would counter that is the most natural thing in the world for a human to be intoxicated..

for alcoholics, yes 🙁

and drug addicts lest we forget!

[url= http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=274 ]anecdotal evidence[/url] can be found here to show that I haven't made up my argument on the spur of the moment to annoy tee-totallers.. (although I suspected myself of imagining that I had heard of this phenomenon) that was just a quick google... getting intoxicated is a potential fourth drive of animals.

Pubs are licensed premises for selling alcohol, go to cafe's or juice bars if you want exciting non alcoholic beverages, otherwise stop trying to convert what's centuries old into something it shouldn't be.

Rubbish. If I go into a pub and there's a cappucino machine behind the bar, I might well ask for a latte. I didn't demand that they put the machine there, and I'm not stopping anyone from drinking beer in there.

There is a very interesting correlation here between the idea that pubs should dictate what what people should want from them and the 'why is service so crap eggs and toast' thread of a short while ago.

it does annoy me when i see a coffee machine behind the bar, and i ask for a coffee, only to be told - "we stop serving coffee at 6"

Why? - the profit on a £2.50 cup of coffee is about £2.50, the profit on a £2.50 pint of beer is about 10p.

maybe pubs are closing because they're run by idiots who can't see an opportunity for profit.

i'm sorry, sometimes i don't want a beer, sometimes i want a coffee, and yes, sometimes i want a soymilk-hot-chocolate.

but no, after 6 it's low-profit beer only.

I've changed my mind, pubs ARE closing because they're run by idiots.

(i'm an idiot, i'll happily pay £2.50 for a decent coffee, and if you listen my simple SMALL, BLACK, ONE SUGAR, instructions i'll probably tip aswell).

FFS! surely running a pub is a license to print money? - you're open till midnight, and can sell whatever you want to a captive audience of happily drunk people - most of whom have the beer munchies, you could probably get them to buy used coal, or even pickled pig trotters, just say it's 'tapas'.

run a mid-week pub quiz, but make sure it finishes before 10, and has at least 5 questions that aren't about football or soap operas (walkley cottage take note).

The Square Orange bar in Keswick is bloody brilliant. in the middle of the day they sell snacks and tea/coffee, in the evening they fire up the pizza oven, and still sell snacks/tea/coffee, and all day long you can alse get a good bottle/pint of beer if you want. More bars like that please.

/rant.

No, owning a brewery/drinks distributer is a license to print money. The landlords are just poor pawns.

I passed the local Wetherspoon establishment earlier. It appeared to be doing good business. The 6 or so customers 'en terasse' (smoking, admittedly)looked as if they were all on their last legs, and they weren't all old.

Does that please or dismay fans of 'real pubs'?

As above, what exactly is wrong with pubs serving coffee (frothy or otherwise) from early doors until throwing-out time?
They do it in France ....and often combine it with a bookies too. In Ireland they combine a pub with just about anything.

It's much cheaper and quicker for a terminal NHS patient to die of chronic bronchial pneumonia than it is for them to die of lung cancer.

The cynic in me would say that is the main reasoning behind the smoking ban.

On the upside... I've quit smoking and habitual alcohol consumption since the ban.. so I'm laughing.

It's not about where you drink.. it's who you drink with that's important.

mmmmm cirrhosis of the liver
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It's not about where you drink.. it's who you drink with that's important.

+1. No, +2.

It's not about where you drink.. it's who you drink with that's important.

Drinking in the right place with seductive Japanese female twins would be far better IMO.

It's much cheaper and quicker for a terminal NHS patient to die of chronic bronchial pneumonia

and is that an inevitable consequence of failing to smoke ?

yes.. of course

it's a likely consequence of drunk and generally unhealthy people braving ridiculous weather in inappropriate clothing to smoke in designated outdoor smoking areas..

sillybilly

it's a likely consequence of drunk and generally unhealthy people braving ridiculous weather in inappropriate clothing to smoke in designated outdoor smoking areas..

I had no idea people were so fragile

oh

For me it's definitely the price. Could be where I live, but last summer I went out with the Mrs for a "proper" night at the pub. Bit of food, drinks, roll home at closing to pass out on the couch. Not much change from £70. When you get a couple of pounds back from a tenner for two people at the bar, it's scary.

Also, the noise levels in most places is a big problem. Took a group of us nearly an hour (admittedly we had a couple while we searched) to find a pub in central London recently to find a place that didn't have football or music turned up so loud we couldn't talk.

Come Summer I do think smokers should be moved out of beer gardens and into plastic (sealed) wheeliebins.

Hateful habit. Especially out in the countryside with the fresh air. Why go somewhere beautiful then stick smog in your lungs?

We should put £10 duty on each packet and stop children taking up the addiction. Its revolting. As addicts die more and weened onto it by cig displays in shops.

Wasn't beer always cheaper in supermarkets?

O/T- Why do people buy bottled water?!

We should put £10 duty on each packet and stop children taking up the addiction.

as has been made quite obvious by the criminalisation of other drugs, all it does is to create a black market and spawn a criminal underclass to service it. By all means tax at a level proportionate to the extra health costs involved, but allow people freedom of choice

Pssst. Hora....

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