Forum menu
@Del Yes fully recovered thankfully. For me the symptoms were a fever, an intense headache and muscle ache but only my hamstrings. Plus the general feeling of being weak. The fever and headache lasted about three days and the rest a week or so longer. Mrs Stern had the same but a sore throat, too. Our kids ranged from nothing to a mild sore throat and slight temperature. We had the first shot of the AZ about 8 days before the infection started.
It will be interesting to see what the uptake in Australia is – people seem far less motivated here to get a jab, mostly to do with the low impact of covid.
You learnt from our failure with the initial lockdown and quarantine, hopefully you can learn from our success with the vaccine
Thanks RS. Glad to hear you're fully recovered 👍
Apparently farce book and other social media sites are taking down all misinformation regarding vaccinations.
Having spoken to the 2 ladies that own and run a local shop (who haven't had/won't have their vaccinations yet and they are both well over 50), I would like to ask them why. Is it a fear of the actual jab, is it because they've listened to rubbish being spouted around, is it because they can't actually get to a vaccination site. If that is the case, then maybe in a few months time there could be reminder invitations sent out and some way where they can get to a more local centre (the owner of the shop works 6 days a week and long hours). It's worrying as they serve 100's of customers per day.
We'll just have to rely on the majority that have taken up the jab, as in time they will be the ones who save us.
Edit - RoterStern - glad you have recovered. When I had my first OzA/Z jab the nurse said it will take 3 weeks to be immunised. You may have had fewer symptoms because you'd had at least a week of immunisation.
The World Health Organisation should have declared a global emergency earlier than 30 January 2020 and recommended travel restrictions to prevent the outbreak of the COVID pandemic, a panel has said.
A report issued by an independent panel into the handling of the pandemic has also found that the month of February last year was "lost" as countries failed to take strong measures to halt the spread of the virus.
Everyone on here called me out at the time for giving the WHO a hard time about their reaction to the pandemic but an independent panel have now come out and said it.
MCTD
*Waves from Ilkeston *
*waves back from Sandiacre*
WHO should have "acted" sooner... although they were still completely dependent on countries doing the acting... and many of them obviously weren't prepared to do so 'till they were counting bodies at home.
WHO should have “acted” sooner
I'm glad you agree now
So what would have changed if the WHO had declared a global pandemic earlier? Did we wait for their declaration before suddenly acting, or just carry on ignoring it, same as before?
*waves back from Sandiacre*
Ah, the posh end of Stabbo.....
Everyone on here called me out at the time for giving the WHO a hard time about their reaction to the pandemic but an independent panel have now come out and said it.
To save me rereading the entire thread, you were saying this back in February 2020?
So, is there any difference between last time we loosened restrictions (last year) and this time, other than the vaccine?
So, is there any difference between last time we loosened restrictions (last year) and this time, other than the vaccine?
Hopefully hindsight as to how peak stuff can actually get when we think its all over... But ultimately I would say no.
There are differences in the way we test and react to outbreaks, particularly around the new variants. We haven't taken the brakes off completely in one hit, although to counter that, schools will have been back a full term, so the opportunity for transmission is still there.
And while there are grumbling areas of higher rates in a few areas this time around, last time the virus had not been suppressed properly in a whole swathe of northern England. Greater Manchester barely got out of lockdown before it was back in 'special measures'.
But yes, vaccination is the route out of this, and that's the massive difference. But we shouldn't downplay the potential impact of non-fatal covid infections in the younger unvaccinated population. Which is why we should perhaps be sticking with some of the mitigations - masks, distancing - until more groups are vaccinated.
Re Australia I was rather shocked after a facetime with my sister in law the other day in which I was saying I hoped we could see them before too long and how was vaccination going over there? only for her to say she wasn't going to be getting a vaccine any time soon because of the blood clots and lack of vaccine testing and that this was quite wide spread thinking within oz because they is no hurry due to levels of covid being non existent. I get where they are coming from to some extent but if she and others don't get on and get vaccinated how does she expect Australia to open up and for her to ever see her siblings and parents again? I said that our perspective over here is that until the whole world is vaccinated this isn't over and that it's a team effort so perhaps she'll think about it as she's a sound and intelligent person.
Well I did my first gym session this afternoon and it was a mixed bag of experiences.
The rules say you should wipe down the equipment before and after you use it, most were doing the before but not the after. Some just didn't bother at all.
You're meant to wear a mask at all times you're not actually working out, this was pretty much ignored by half of the people in there.
Plenty of people in small groups sharing equipment and not being aware of others around them.
In the whole time I was there (45 minutes) I only saw 3 other people scan the check-in QR code so if any outbreak happens T&T have no hope of tracing everyone.
The staff were trying to control thigs as best they can but as it's a large warehouse and they also have to take care of people with questions, watch out for the perverts ogling the ladies (spotted a few), do their cleaning rounds and keep an eye on overall numbers they really do have a difficult task on their hands. It's pretty easy to control my exposure to other people's sweat by wiping the equipment but it's plainly obvious that it won't take much for lots of people to become infected if it gets in there.
So, is there any difference between last time we loosened restrictions (last year) and this time, other than the vaccine?
People seem to be much more reluctant to rush out and do what they want, taking it easy and avoiding the crowds. There seems to be much more general awareness that we need to be sensible overall, especially if the Indian, or another, variant takes hold. How long this will last is the question.
especially if the Indian, or another, variant takes hold
Looking at the data, that's not an 'if'.
Lowish numbers still, but doubling time (of detected Indian variant cases*) in Bolton seems to be roughly six days. In a week I guess we'll be looking for any increase in hospitalisation in key groups. And signs of breakout into the rest of the NW. Right on Boris' grand opening day. Fancy that!
Crossing everything that the vaccines will continue to be effective, more or less.
*partly due to surge testing, maybe? Turn over a rock and you will find more cases.
Guardian are reporting in the live feed that both Moderna and Pfizer appear to "neutralise" the Indian variant.
There was an article on an outbreak in a care home of the Indian variant. All patients vaccinated with AZ x2. 4 admitted to hospital (due to age, mild disease) no deaths.
So, public enquiry starts next spring. No chance of it reporting before the next election. How convenient.
Like you thought he wasn't going to get away with it? Pffft...
Guardian are reporting in the live feed that both Moderna and Pfizer appear to “neutralise” the Indian variant.
Yeah, I reckon we'll know for sure in the next couple of weeks. I'm hopeful.
In the meantime we need to crack on with vaccinating the 30s-40s. That for me is key to breaking the school-home transmission route.
That for me is key to breaking the school-home transmission route.
Definitely. I accept that the priority had to be with age and vulnerability but "if" the vaccine reduces transmission then that age group could be key.
So, public enquiry starts next spring. No chance of it reporting before the next election. How convenient.
Well, given the next election can be whenever he chooses, why would you expect otherwise? 😁
No chance of it reporting before the next election.
Its not like the terms of reference will allow it to do any damage anyway. Might be a few inconvenient interviews but the only time an inquiry will come out against the target is when the people commissioning it want it to.
Not looking good in Bolton and Glasgow according to BBC articles today, on the face of it we could be opening things up just as the Indian strain starts to spread through the unvaccinated younger generation, at the very least.
There is apparent rapid growth of variants with the S-gene (SA and India), as a proportion of all cases and absolute numbers in some regions. Looking hard at regional hospitalisations for signals. I suspect that there will be protection from morbidity but perhaps less for symptoms - which may drive an increase in testing and hence cases. We shall see soon. UK variant will essentially be gone by June, The previous wild-type with Spanish mutation disappeared just as rapidly.
That for me is key to breaking the school-home transmission route.
There are lots of ways to break the transmission routes, and keep schools open. We’re leaning on the vaccines as if they are a silver bullet, and everything else can be dropped more or less straight away. No masks for older teens from Monday is still crazy if you want to reduce spread while we get the vaccines rolled out to all.
You learnt from our failure with the initial lockdown and quarantine, hopefully you can learn from our success with the vaccine
errrrr...... no. It's true that the UK has contributed a lot of data demonstrating how to royally **** up a pandemic response, but it was doing that AFTER other countries had shown pretty clearly how to do those things successfully - so not super helpful. Believe me, everyone over here was looking at the laundry list of errors made by the UK in utter disbelief that you* could be so stupid.
*not YOU you, obviously.
The UKs vaccine success is entirely to do with early procurement, and the fact that the UK was in a very bad state at the point the vaccine was rolled-out. Those two things have guaranteed both the supply and the demand for jabs. It's of course true that the distribution of the jabs has been very successful - and I think we're all equal-parts amazed and relieved that bojo and chums haven't found a way to also **** that up.
Australia ordered a load of vaccine too - many times more than is required to vaccinate the whole country, but presumably on less favorable contact terms, as we are still supply constrained, so distribution is somewhat of a moot point.
Re Australia I was rather shocked after a facetime with my sister in law the other day in which I was saying I hoped we could see them before too long and how was vaccination going over there? only for her to say she wasn’t going to be getting a vaccine any time soon because of the blood clots and lack of vaccine testing and that this was quite wide spread thinking within oz because they is no hurry due to levels of covid being non existent. I get where they are coming from to some extent but if she and others don’t get on and get vaccinated how does she expect Australia to open up and for her to ever see her siblings and parents again? I said that our perspective over here is that until the whole world is vaccinated this isn’t over and that it’s a team effort so perhaps she’ll think about it as she’s a sound and intelligent person.
Yes, treatment compliance is always going to be an issue when you are trying to treat/prevent a disease which is having close-to-zero impact - see also hypertension. Australia's last, single covid death was 21 Oct 2020 - so people just don't see the jab as a priority in the same way that people in the UK do, our response has been too successful. I'm hoping the Indian situation will wake people up a bit. I think there is a lot of PR work to do - there are of course the same stories about clotting etc over here as in the UK, but not the corresponding success story about declining deaths/admissions and "reward" of easing of restrictions to motivate people to get the jab.
I will be getting my jab in the next few weeks I think, as will most of the people I know - however, there is a really significant chunk of Australian society who only see the risks of the vaccine and no benefits.
Australia are publishing a plan shortly outlining the plan to relax border restrictions. It seems inevitable that this is going to be linked to both personal vaccination status, and population vaccination level. That should focus peoples minds a bit.
Bit of advice regarding home test kits (from the NHS)
I'm due to visit a friend next week who is medically vulnerable, along with doing what I currently can to avoid (thank you WFH) infection and setting the visit itself up (outdoors, plenty of distance) I've a pack of LFR kits arriving.
Is there a strategy for using these to get better results, I'm both possibly over thinking this and also naive to their use having never used them before.
I was wondering if two test in a day are more likely to catch an infection. I'm told they're not the most reliable but I'm unsure I'd they have a bias to false positive or negative results?
Mrs Routes uses them twice weekly. If it's good enough for NHS staff visiting vulnerable patients in their homes and undertaking personal care then I'd think that was ok for you too.
* Appropriate PPE is also used of course.
Yes, the kids do the twice a week, so I'd suggest the morning of the visit and 3-4 days before is as good as it's likely to get.
So I’ve just booked my jab for tomorrow. Hopefully don’t end is as rough as when I actually had COVID 🤞
Curious though. Seeing as we (38-39yo) are allowed to pick an alternative to AZ if we want. How many of you will take it and what preference have you got?
Pfizer or Moderna?
If the alternative, why? Because of the blood clot issue or because you feel they are ‘better’.
I really don’t know what to choose. I was fully prepared to have AZ if that was what was given on the day but know wonder if Pfizer is better for example.
I’m sure @Tired mentioned he had AZ but would have picked Pfizer given the choice (although I may be misremembering). Why, because of the clot risk or some other reason?
Wow - so calls from the scientists now to delay the next two phases of opening up based on nervousness of the Indian variant.
Boris of course I suspect is being economically driven to state that he's not seeing any causes for concern currently we'll be going ahead.
Oh dear, haven't we been here before albeit sans vaccine?
Are scientists calling for a delay - I can only see headlines saying it's a concern and being watched?
But yes, I wouldn't trust Boris. I can see 21st June being pushed back though. Just having preliminary conversations at work about a partial return to work
RDL -82 - As I understand it, you won't get a choice. You'll only know when you get to the vaccination centre.
A lot of vacc centres do multiple vaccines, but normally only 1 at a time. As a 39 y/o you should now be booked into a Pfizer/moderna session.
As I understand it, you won’t get a choice. You’ll only know when you get to the vaccination centre.
thanks. Seen that now. Was a misunderstanding on my behalf regarding a ‘choice’ and getting to choose one or the other vs just being given one of the others.
I’ll take any. I was always prepared to and still am of it came to it, my question was more because I thought we may have to pick and in that case the natural curiosity is ‘which is better’ if there really is a ‘better’.
See what tomorrow brings.
Let us know how you get on?
Not sure if already posted but people over 18 in three wards of Blackburn are being offered vaccines.
Boris of course I suspect is being economically driven to state that he’s not seeing any causes for concern currently we’ll be going ahead.
I don't doubt part of his thinking is I need to save the economy and really he does. He needs minimal covid devs and minimal economic disruption sadly they don't go hand in hand. However Johnson has this absolute desire to please people which i think overrides his economy thinking... hes basically the worlds worst beg friend. What this does mean is u-turn after u-turn depending on which person hes trying to get to like him.
We vaccinated loads of 18+ in Eastbourne last weekend as we had a fridge full of short-dated Pfizer that needed using up. The queues were massive!!!
Joepud nails it.
Surge vaccinations not ruled out says No 10
The younger age groups will be offered the vaccine from next week, when surge testing will also take place, Blackburn and Darwen Council said.
Seems very sensible
So there is good in the world - our company have just told us we all have Friday afternoons off until 1st October to "enjoy lost time with our friends and families over the summer period.
Blimey.
Seems very sensible
But no masks in schools from Monday.
And indoor social eating/drinking is back.
I suppose it’s fingers crossed time.
Very worried that we’re acting as if the only tool that matters is vaccinations, perhaps because it’s the only tool that’s been delivered well. Not sure vaccinations are really key to containing these new variant related outbreaks.
https://twitter.com/smyth_chris/status/1392835390399291393?s=21
According to the PHE the highest prevalence is in the 10-19 y/o.
Kids went back after Easter 2 weeks ago, since when the cases have risen amongst them.
So from Monday we are removing the need for masks amongst that exact age group.
Following the science my a@@e!!!!
Not sure the Blackburn system is well set-up anyhow. Folk from non-Blackburn postcodes can book in, reportedly.
But no masks in schools from Monday.
And indoor social eating/drinking is back.
I suppose it’s fingers crossed time.
If we had a working track and trace system this shouldn't be an issue. However it seems to be dysfunctional for some reason and is letting things slip through its fingers every time we get close to suppression of the virus.
They've been giving a vaccine to 18+ in Elgin area too due to a surge in positives amongst younger folk there.
Feels like we are rapidly approaching another "following the science" crossroads, where Boris is going to ignore SAGE until the Indian strain is rife among at least the unvaccinated young throughout England, until it's too late in a few weeks time.
But then so far, Sturgeon and Drakeford haven't beaten Boris to the reactive punch.
At least the secondary school kids don't have to wear masks from Monday and people can have a pint inside and out of the cold, eh?
Schools are safe.
Unlocking is irreversible.
Let the bodies pile up.
our company have just told us we all have Friday afternoons off until 1st October to “enjoy lost time with our friends and families over the summer period.
That's fantastic. Hope you can make the most of it.
Jnr's college are encouraging mask wearing from next week but not enforcing it. He's just got his joining instructions for their DofE gold expedition after half term.
Leaving aside the Boris dithering aspect, bloody annoying to have another fast spreading variant appear as we are unlocking again.
In other news, a mate who works in IT has just been taken on to look at the track and trace system. He says its as bad as we think it is.
Rather him than me.
In other news, a mate who works in IT has just been taken on to look at the track and trace system. He says its as bad as we think it is.
Why doesn't that surprise me. I have worked with gov on the odd thing a few years ago (im a digital designer) and their grasp of technology and how stuff work its truly baffling. A serious lack of digital maturity
My lad's school secondary school is keeping mask use, including in classrooms. Anyone else heard similar? It's based on government advice... do we think the government are preparing parents for this?
No, mine are going with gov guidance. 😣
That’s the thing, this is gov guidance. For regions where cases are high in that age group. The messaging seems to be that the no masks thing is the whole of England, but the details say otherwise.
This is worth reading in full. Research on airbourne transmission was misinterpreted for decades and doctors believed that particles over 5 microns weren't a problem - the number should have been 100 microns.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
Japan will declare a state of emergency in three more prefectures hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic, Economy Minister Yasutoshi Nishimura said on Friday, in a surprise move reflecting growing concerns about the virus’s spread.
Hokkaido, Okayama and Hiroshima will on Sunday join Tokyo, Osaka and four other prefectures under a state of emergency until May 31, said Nishimura, who is also in charge of coronavirus countermeasures.
The government had originally proposed a more targeted “quasi-emergency” declaration for Hokkaido, Okayama and Hiroshima, and two other prefectures. The lesser declaration now covers eight of Japan’s 47 prefectures.
“There were various views expressed at the meeting (with experts). Based on those views, we retracted our original proposal and came up with this new one and got approval for it,” Nishimura told reporters after the meeting.
The rising state of emergency declarations come as Japan grapples with a surge of a more infectious strain just 10 weeks before the Tokyo Olympics are due to start.
Experts say medical resources are being pushed to the brink, while Japan’s vaccination drive has been the slowest among advanced nations with just 3% of the population vaccinated, according to Reuters data.
A serious lack of digital maturity
We sold off the expertise in the 80's. A policy failure of gargantuan proportions similar to the fibre mistake made by the same government.
We should remember these when politicians claim to be infallible and point out that some curiosity and humility are better traits.
My kids' school are keeping mask wearing due to being in close proximity to the school closed with 100+ cases
My kids’ school are keeping mask wearing due to being in close proximity to the school closed with 100+ cases
Friesland?
My lad’s school secondary school is keeping mask use, including in classrooms.
Sound decision. It's madness to ditch the mitigation at this point, especially in the north of England. My two are into the final furlong of their assessments now. Can't come soon enough.
That’s the weird thing, why remove this mitigation at all right now? Rather than finish what is left of the term with mask wearing, and hopefully be able to offer a more normal experience in September? Mask wearing could well make the difference between keeping schools open to finish the term or not.
Will 'reminder' invitations be sent out in the future to people who have not had a vaccine in the 50 plus aged groups?
Surely a doctor's surgery will have the information as to who has or hasn't had the jab in the more vulnerable aged groups.
Research says it's a combination of mask wearing and ventilation that reduces transmission. One without the other doesn't work. Madame handed out a detention last week to a kid who tried to close a window. What's the advice on ventilation in British schools?
Same Ed (well today anyway)… windows open.
Ventilation advice carries on from Monday actually (but without the masks)....
7. Keep occupied spaces well ventilated
Good ventilation reduces the concentration of the virus in the air, which reduces the risk from airborne transmission. This happens when people breathe in small particles (aerosols) in the air after someone with the virus has occupied and enclosed area.
When your school is in operation, it is important to ensure it is well ventilated and a comfortable teaching environment is maintained.
These can be achieved by a variety of measures.
Mechanical ventilation systems
These should be adjusted to increase the ventilation rate wherever possible and checked to confirm that normal operation meets current guidance and that only fresh outside air is circulated.
If possible, systems should be adjusted to full fresh air or, if not, then systems should be operated as normal as long as they are within a single room and supplemented by an outdoor air supply.
The Health and Safety Executive guidance on air conditioning and ventilation during the COVID-19 pandemic and CIBSE COVID-19 advice provides more information.
Natural ventilation
Opening windows (in cooler weather windows should be opened just enough to provide constant background ventilation and opened more fully during breaks to purge the air in the space) and opening internal doors can also assist with creating a throughput of air.
If necessary external opening doors may also be used (as long as they are not fire doors and where safe to do so).
To balance the need for increased ventilation while maintaining a comfortable temperature, consider:
- opening high-level windows in colder weather in preference to low level to reduce draughts
- increasing the ventilation while spaces are unoccupied (for example, between classes, during break and lunch, when a room is unused)
- providing flexibility to allow additional, suitable indoor clothing
- rearranging furniture where possible to avoid direct draughts
Heating should be used as necessary to ensure comfort levels are maintained particularly in occupied spaces.
Here's the new face coverings advice...
Based on the current state of the pandemic and the positive progress being made, it is no longer necessary to recommend the additional precautionary face covering measures put in place from the 8 March.
From 17 May, in line with Step 3 of the roadmap, face coverings will no longer be recommended for pupils in classrooms or communal areas in all schools. Face coverings will also no longer be recommended for staff in classrooms.
In all schools we continue to recommend that face coverings should be worn by staff and visitors in situations outside of classrooms where social distancing is not possible (for example, when moving around in corridors and communal areas).
Where schools are delivering education and training, including extra-curricular activities and wraparound childcare, in a community setting (for example, library or community centre), staff and pupils will be exempt from the legal requirement to wear a face covering if they are in a private room or the premises has been exclusively hired for the sole use of its pupils and staff.
The reintroduction of face coverings for pupils, students or staff may be advised for a temporary period in response to particular localised outbreaks, including variants of concern. In all cases, any educational drawbacks should be balanced with the benefits of managing transmission. The Local Action Committee structure (bronze/silver/gold) should be used in such circumstances to re-introduce the use of face coverings. Immediate outbreak response (at the level of individual settings or a cluster of settings) remains for local directors of public health to advise on.
Children and young people aged 11 and over must still wear a face covering on public transport. In accordance with advice from PHE, they must also wear a face covering when travelling on dedicated transport to secondary school or college. This does not apply to children and young people who are exempt from wearing face coverings.
posted in error
O think I posted last week about the primary school my youngest daughter attends nursery at, it had reception and years 2 to 5 isolating. They went back Monday. Yesterday year 1 got sent home to isolate. Today the school say, confirmed Indian variant cases, siblings of isolating kids also to stay home and next week phe have PCR surge testing at the school.
This is crystal palace btw, not Bolton.
We kept our daughter off nursery a few days last week, she's been back this week.... Will make a decision over the weekend about next week.
Wife had her 2nd dose of az yesterday, feeling bkeurgh again but not so bad as 1st time.
Yesterday I heard on the radio that the Indian variant was the second most prevelant in the UK, and may even overtake the Kent.
Only about 2 weeks ago I'm sure we were all wringing our hands about flights from, and red listing India; to not let this new variant in.
Is there a way to know how long its actually been around, and where it came from?
MCTD
Friesland?
yup - fairly obvious from the not so posh end of Risley 🙂
Just had my Pfizer jab! Looks like they've got to the 36 year olds in my area (West berks) as my mate also got the text as the same time as me (i'm 39).
So far maybe a little bit of a sore arm?
RDL -82 – As I understand it, you won’t get a choice. You’ll only know when you get to the vaccination centre.
You can have a choice, or at least you can in west berks - when I got the text from my surgery, I called them and asked if I got to express a preference as I was under 40. She gave me the number of the covid team for the area, and they were seemingly delighted to tell me the choice (Pfizer or AZ) and booked me on the Pfizer day. From her reaction to the question, it sounded like they were geared up to dealing with it like that.
From what I understand the pzifer jab has a slightly higher effectiveness and less bad side effects - seems like a no brainer.
Just had my Pfizer jab! Looks like they’ve got to the 36 year olds in my area (West berks) as my mate also got the text as the same time as me (i’m 39).
How west - I'm 30 in Bracknell? Trying to work out the schedule, some places seem to get through a decade in a week.
Yesterday I heard on the radio that the Indian variant was the second most prevelant in the UK, and may even overtake the Kent.
Will overtake. The Kent variant will vanish almost as quickly as it turned up, as something more transmissible has arrived.
We've just been told to invite everyone over 16 for a jab. We're in inner city Manchester
How west – I’m 30 in Bracknell? Trying to work out the schedule, some places seem to get through a decade in a week.
I'm in woolhampton, my mate is in Stratford Mortimer.