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Just seen a bit in the guardian coronavirus news stream where the eu are urging the us not to block exports of vaccine or raw materials into Europe.
Nothing like a bit of double standards is there
I think with Biden in the WH, at least you won’t get petulant decisions. He’s already been rolling back from Trumps US/EU trade wars.
Agreed, it should at least be balanced.
Once we get below 50, will it still be in age brackets?
That's what they've said, roll out will continue by age as it's easiest and has the biggest impact on hospital admissions. I'm 50 in May so not sure what category I'll be in when I'm eligible.
Hmm, wonder if any of you guys know this one: I'm signed up with the Royal Voluntary Service as a Steward Vaccination Volunteer. No shifts available yet but just had an email saying that they're expecting things to ramp up from the 15th March. It also said that as volunteers we're in a priority group to get a vaccination ourselves so should get this when we have a shift. It linked to the guidance doc here that seems to confirm this:
So, my question is this: would it be wise / right / better to book a vaccination at one of the big centres now, under the healthcare worker section, to get it done and out of the way (and have time to take effect) before shifts start? On the booking website it says that you need to bring proof from e.g. an employer, but would volunteer status count?
(and have time to take effect) before shifts start?
yes
bloke in the queue in front of me was a volunteer (c35)
I’m a volunteer vaccinator with SJA. I booked through the healthcare system & got jabbed at the local hospital which was HC workers only. Nobody checked or cared about my ID, but I imagine any evidence of what you are doing would suffice.
Oh my god.... think I've dodged a bullet. I recently split with my GF after nearly 5 years together. I've just found out she is a rabid anti-vaxxer when it comes to COVID. She is determined all the scare stories about vaccines killing people are true.
Not sure if this has been covered earlier in the thread but there is a lot to read through. Is the Oxford AZ vaccine still in phase 3 trials or am I right that the trials were completed Nov/Dec?
The people in the trial will be continuing to be monitored for years. As with every trial.
The required data was achieved from the trial to prove efficacy of the drug. If has been signed off by the worlds medicine watchdogs.
Phase 3 of a trial is to prove that it works. The safety is proved earlier before this even starts.
As all conspiracy, a grain of truth is twisted to prove the aims of the twister.
That's exactly what I thought. Just wanted to confirm I was right
For the az vaccine some of the phase 3 trials have completed and now are ongoing or waiting for data reporting. The us has a major study nearing readout for the oz az vaccine
From (last) Monday Corona virus vaccines will be offered to anyone living in the UK regardless of immigration status - from Reuters.
My British relative in Switzerland still can't get any information on how to get vaccinated.
gray - I think you should do this now.
All the nhs staff, care workers and vaccination volunteers in our area are jabbed at the local hospital (which isn't a vaccination centre for the public).
Where are the reliable sources of information on the vaccines being used ?
That's a pretty broad question, what specifically? How they work? What they are? What sort of proportion has been administered of each? etc. Depending what you want to know would likely mean a different resource. I don't think one place has gathered all the info together completely (apart from here maybe, but our filing system is a bit crap)
They are all highly safe, they all work well, perhaps excellently, depending on your POV. There’s not really much evidence that one is better than another and I’m certainly not going to go all “oh I’d rather have X” when my turn comes in the next few weeks (52 here).
Where are the reliable sources of information on the vaccines being used ?
Linked regularly throughout this thread, though would be a long process working through it.
Invite for the jab arrived yesterday, Mrs S and I get our first jab in 9 days time.
To whomever sent by DM the link for booking the vaccines when it arrived it was still over 60's only. Thanks for the effort, I expect that the IT change happened in the dead hours of Saturday morning.
Invite for the jab arrived yesterday, Mrs S and I get our first jab in 9 days time.
I think they were saying over 50s invites from next week on the news this morning. NHS site is saying 56+ at the moment.
Cheers for that. It's main source was the Red Cross but found more info on the .Gov website.
More reading to do for me I think.
Never had vaccine before. (since young childhood anyway) so main concerns are side effects things like that.
Will admit to being not keen, but then I hate taking any drug.
Yes invitations for the over 56 - 59 age groups.
Unbelievably the Dr on BBC breakfast this morning saying that some people are booking more than one slot or even three, to make sure they get an appointment. This of course is taking slots away from others. This could be because they are getting an invitation from their Dr surgery also receiving one through the post, so this could be a genuine confusion. But some really are booking in too many.
Yes invitations for the over 56 – 59 age groups.
Seems they've departed slightly from the jcvi groups as iirc that was "55 and over" in group 8. Anyone know if this is intentional or just a cock up by someone using ">" instead of ">=" in the data selection that they've then doubled down on (easy mistake in Excel ;))
“55 and over” in group 8
invitations for the over 56 – 59 age groups.
That discrepancy didn't even register when I read it.
It was 55 and over in earlier documents for phase 1, when the decision was made not to use occupation at all in phase 2 (beyond health and care workers) it had changed to 56. Might be some good maths that gave them the new banding… or it might just be an arse and elbow thing… I suspect and hope it’s the former… because it is confusing.
8 : All those 55 years of age and over
Unbelievably the Dr on BBC breakfast this morning saying that some people are booking more than one slot or even three, to make sure they get an appointment.
I'd be surprised if the NHS booking system would allow you to occupy more than one slot per NHS Number. As you say, I imagine that they are booking their slot in a more distant vaccination centre, then getting an offer from the local GP through the post, taking that up, and not cancelling the other one.
Group 8 is still 55 and over in the green book…
🤷🏻♂️
All the public communications of the past few weeks has been 56 and over.
Vaccination rates across the 4 nations seem to be pretty similar but I'm interested to see group 8 invites now going out and appointments booked. I'm 62 and according to the Omni calculator, if I was being vaccinated in England I'd be expecting it sometime after 10th March but here in Scotland it's no earlier than 15th April. Is this because ScotGov handled the Care Home thing differently and it is now giving all those second doses?
I'm group 6. Omni had my date range getting rapidly closer as time went on. Most recently 10/3 to 16/4, got it on Thursday! I think Omni might be pessimistically biased.
Out for a nice walk in the sunshine this afternoon...
"Conclusions: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency was not significantly associated with either number of infections, recoveries or mortality rate of COVID-19 among European countries. Thus, it is an important parameter to be considered when implementing preventive measures to face COVID-19."
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.21252885v1
Doesn't rule out a protective effect, because as with any covariate, the amount of variation that is explained is likely to be relatively small.
But it was a lovely afternoon.
And for a little comfort, Belgian sewer rats did not have SARS-CoV2 infection in a survey https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.06.433708v1 in the first study of its kind. I suppose we should be thankful for small mercies.
Your dog may, however, know that you are infected https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.434038v1 if a scent dog. Or it can smell the rats 😉
Quiet weekend work wise???🤣
You noticed. Was catching up on the literature - currently COVID is running at 40 preprints per day. Not just an epidemic of cases! Most of which can now be summarised as "we had some serum in the fridge and tested it against any variant we could lay our hands on". A lot of heat but very little light. One paper looking at recent serum showing it neutralised wild type, and the reverse has been less true.
Last week we found that our antibody produced a small response in hospitalised COVID patients in a platform trial called ACTIV-3 (any Pharma press release with the word "UPDATE" means negative trial), but this was not deemed robust and the study was stopped. This is not surprising. It's the fourth monoclonal antibody to fail. Antivirals need to be given early to have an effect. It's hard to isolate infectious virus 10 days after symptom onset.
I recently split with my GF after nearly 5 years together. I’ve just found out she is a rabid anti-vaxxer when it comes to COVID. She is determined all the scare stories about vaccines killing people are true.
More like dodged a rocket propelled grenade there pal.
“Conclusions: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency was not significantly associated with either number of infections, recoveries or mortality rate of COVID-19 among European countries. Thus, it is an important parameter to be considered when implementing preventive measures to face COVID-19.”
If it's not "significantly associated", why is it an "important factor to be considered"?
Not sure how accurate omnicalculator is for Scotland.
I’m 62 and according to the Omni calculator, if I was being vaccinated in England I’d be expecting it sometime after 10th March but here in Scotland it’s no earlier than 15th April. Is this because ScotGov handled the Care Home thing differently and it is now giving all those second doses?
Friend of mine in Edinburgh also 62 & phoned up the COVID helpline. She was told it will be next week although she is yet to be officially contacted.
I know it divides opinion, and not wanting to restart the fight, but good luck to all those returning to school today; parents, kids and teachers. It's still not normal and I know there is a risk involved but I hope it goes well for you all.
but good luck to all those returning to school today; parents, kids and teachers.
I'll second this. A colossal amount of work has gone in to try and make a success of it.
Got one back today, the other goes back tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice all. I called the volunteer line to ask whether I should book a vaccination through the NHS booking system and they essentially said "erm, dunno - maybe call 119 and ask them", so I did that and they essentially said "erm, dunno, but if you bring proof that you're doing something relevant then it'll be fine", though they couldn't really confirm whether being a steward volunteer was relevant. So I'm still a bit torn - it seems 99% certain that printing out the email from the volunteer service that says "you are in a priority group because of your role", along with the NHS guidance that says volunteers definitely count, would pass any checks on the day. But I'd still feel pretty queue-jumpy if I don't have any shifts booked by then (or indeed ever!), especially as there's definitely an element of subconscious selfishness involved in my thought processes. Hey ho. Happy Monday everyone! My kids are back in (primary) school today. One very happy about it, one not really.
My kids are back in school today and it felt really good to see all the smiles on the kids, parents and teachers faces! Back home now and I'm going to miss them loads for the next few hours, but might get more work done!
Gray - you absolutely are entitled to a jab for stewarding at vacc sites. All our SJA volunteers get the same. You come under the “front line Healthcare” bracket now.
In my area we were given a link to a separate booking site, but I think it may now just redirect you to the main booking website where you can say you are healthcare. Nobody at a vacc site will even bat an eyelid about you getting a jab. Anything showing your volunteer status will be fine - if they even look!
It has been proven already that there is a reduction in transmission from vaccinated people. You will be coming into contact with some vulnerable unvaccinated people, so you are getting it for them as much as yourself.
If you are struggling to get an appt booked PM me and I’ll see if I can find you a link.
Well done for stepping up to help 👍
WRT schools, I’m concerned, but think it’s correct. My only thought would be “should we wait to Easter?”
My son has been struggling for motivation the last few weeks. He us bright and enjoys school, has a laptop freely available, and his school provides full online lessons. If he is struggling many will be a lot worse.
Our daughter has just completed her mocks, so won’t really see much educational benefit on return, as they would normally be prepping for exams she won’t be taking. She really needs some interaction though as a 16yo girl. She is quite shy and will find it tough to reintegrate with the outside world.
If it’s not “significantly associated”, why is it an “important factor to be considered”?
Which is why I quoted it 😉 . Scientists. Objective? Paul Feyerabend is probably closer to the way science really works than Karl Popper's view of falsification. Feyerabend was Popper's student. I was fortunate enough to attend a course on Philosophy of Science in my degree taught by Popper just before he died.
@dantsw13 - thanks, I've just booked myself in for the site near me for a couple of weeks time.
Numbers still going in the right direction again today, under 5000 cases in a long time.
What sort of rise in cases are we likely to see now schools are back? If we see a certain rise, will the government be too cautious and push the dates out?
Going from last year, school transmission isn’t measured/noticed… it’s only on later community transmission resulting in symptomatic cases that the rise is picked up. What difference lateral flow tests on schools will make this time, who knows. Some schools around here only have a 25% opt in from parents so far.
I’d suggest that is possibly evidence of their general Covid attitude, and explains why some areas never fall.
My area is really interesting cases wise. Rural East Sussex.
We were lowest in the country for the whole pandemic up until November when the Kent strain hit us. Then Hastings was the worst in the country over the 2nd spike. Now we are lowest again.
I don’t think schools will close again now fully stop. It’s the “get vaccinated ASAP & take your chances with long Covid” plan now. Boris wants to claim victory by summer no matter what.
I’d suggest that is possibly evidence of their general Covid attitude,
That attitude is common in areas where people can not afford to be told to isolate and not go to work.
and explains why some areas never fall.
I agree.
You've only got to look at Leicester for the worst case of numbers never fall!
Kelvin - I agree that cost is a big issue. Silver spooners in govt just don’t understand.
I don’t think schools will close again now fully stop. It’s the “get vaccinated ASAP & take your chances with long Covid” plan now. Boris wants to claim victory by summer no matter what.
We have to move on at some point.
Went back to school to get tested and it seems like a massive operation. Test wasn't as bad as I thought it would be which was nice. Back home in time to go out for a ride.
Larry - that is true. How much benefit will the kids get in 3 weeks before Easter, vs how much lower will cases be then?
I don’t claim to be right or wrong, but I am nervous.
How good is the govt record on getting it right on these things?
Opening for 1 day post Xmas and sneering at the opposition before a complete u-turn?
Nervous? Or cautious? Either way, I think we all should be…
He makes it sound like someone else came up with this plan.......
So what does this really mean? There seems a collective sigh of relief at the current rapid drop of deaths and cases, but now we're to expect a rise again.
Ok, so we need to get back to "normal", but are we then to have to get used to thousands of cases and hundreds of deaths per day? I guess this happens with the Flu and its become a background issue (sadly) but i fear wandering around in an immediate post pandemic society (we arent even there yet) is a high anxiety situation.
Kryton - hopefully the vaccine programme has broken the link between cases/admissions/deaths.
Cases may* rise, but this time it doesn’t mean necessarily more admissions and certainly not the deaths.
Chris Whitty explained it when the roadmap was released:
Most deaths in the top 4 groups. A lot of the hospitalisation come from the other 70+ categories.
The school opening date was set to be 21 days after all the 70 y/o had been jabbed, so the vaccine immunity has kicked in.
Add in the fact that vaccines do reduce transmission to a degree, and all the time our position gets better. We are turning Coronavirus into a flu-like disease we can live with.
Well, that’s the plan anyhow. Hopefully masks & testing in schools will also help.
There seems a collective sigh of relief at the current rapid drop of deaths and cases, but now we’re to expect a rise again.
I would be very surprised if there was no rise following a relaxation of lockdown. Hopefully vaccination will be a mitigating factor and we won't see a repeat of the massive peak which has just passed. Will there still be hospitalisations and deaths? Yes of course.
Less hospitalisation and a lot less deaths. But yes, still some.
In normal times 1700 people die every day in the U.K.
13 women die of cervical cancer each day I heard on R4 today.
We certainly haven’t/won’t eliminate coronavirus. I do see return to school as the first stage of learning to live with it. I certainly won’t be sprinting to a pub as soon as it opens though. Contacts will be far less than previously even when restrictions are lifted.
Thanks dantsw13, I hadn’t linked that plan up in my head, that’s encouraging. I think at least people with above average generalised anxiety e.g. me will be wearing masks, avoiding mixing and crowds on the tube etc for some time yet.
I think its all well and good until someone gets covid and the has long covid to deal with. Tell that to the teachers that risk catching it. 3 weeks to mingle and 2 weeks without schools testing over easter potentially means a increase of positive cases in the first week return from easter. Bojo and chums claim summers here and it will be fine. They dont care about the new cases just reduction on the NHS load. The number of deaths of 1700 whilst not good makes worse reading when you add the covid deaths on top. 4.7k today makes me very sad
The number of deaths of 1700 whilst not good makes worse reading when you add the covid deaths on top. 4.7k today makes me very sad
4.7K cases, not deaths. Deaths today was 65
I would imagine kids will need to have a LFT the day before returning after easter.
Except for all the kids not taking part in testing due to lack of parental consent.
Tell that to the teachers that risk catching it.
Haven’t you heard? Schools are safe.
Haven’t you heard? Schools are safe.
Reclassify everything as a school and we’re good to go 😉
I suppose safe is a relative term,always had a laugh with the whole meeting people inside, 1.5m distance was it,easier to achieve in a country pile than a housing association flat.
Anyway I’ve more faith in the scientists,chemists etc who are getting us out of this, the politicians well would it really be bad if we put them against the wall this one time 🙂
I'm struggling here with what some of you actual want ? Do you want no schools to go back ? Ever ? Or until what criteria have been filled ?
Not sure who that’s directed at, but schools have never closed. I wanted the use of (and the funding for) blended learning from September, using additional public buildings not just packed schools, and for no child to have been away from school for any extended period of time. We keep going for an “all pupils on school premises 5 days a week” approach, and ending up with half of kids stuck at home for months on end instead.
It’s right that schools should be prioritised over businesses and leisure in terms of staying/being open. But that should have been paired with prioritising schools in terms of mitigations as well… and that meant space and barriers (fewer kids in school buildings, and older kids using masks in classroom settings). Blended learning would have enabled those that had to isolate this last Autumn and Winter to keep up with more of the work they missed as well. But now? What would I want? Two things… no Big Bang return to schools buildings, have only a few years in each day, and then working from home the following day… or alternate weeks. Yes, more work for teachers and a pain for parents and their employers… but that’s what “prioritising schools” means. Second thing, they should have vaccinated school staff three weeks before the “return”.
it's directed at 'people' in this thread, no-one in particular... but many seem to be frothing about school, so i'm asking.... what do you see as the correct process if what the government are doing now is wrong.
Not sure who that’s directed at, but schools have never closed. I wanted the use of (and the funding for) blended learning from September, using additional public buildings not just packed schools, and for no child to have been away from school for any extended period of time. We keep going for an “all pupils on school premises 5 days a week” approach, and ending up with half of kids stuck at home for months on end instead.
It’s how smart you play it, we need everything open in a way that doesn’t continue the boom and bust tactics.
The stats I saw today on school testing uptake were very high. As ^^^ I’m sure some areas will be different.
Kelvins post on school opening all sounds sensible to me. Too late sadly.
Ah should have said ‘you’, I moved countries during COVID and it’s very,very strange as still working from home not only do you forget the days but the country as well.
Not sure how/when I’ll get my COVID shot but on the upside I’ll have a nicer beach for my staycation 🙂
So what does this really mean? There seems a collective sigh of relief at the current rapid drop of deaths and cases, but now we’re to expect a rise again.
A lot of people really do need an attitude adjustment over their behaviour (not aimed at you, obvs). The current round of vaccination is being presented as an endgame, but it's just a step in the arms race. We need to get kids back to school and allow businesses to open, but that can only work if there is heightened vigilance and the type of behaviour which gives us a chance to drive down numbers and reduce the signal to noise ratio so the health authorities can bring resources to bear on the next stage of the battle, which is potential vaccine-evading mutant strains. We know these are coming, and with a third of the adult population vaccinated, but many thousands of others carrying the virus, this is the perfect opportunity for them to emerge.
Here's a little example, tucked away among the 'lineages of interest' - shorthand for 'strains we're worried about', but it shows the problems that the mobility of people could cause.
First identified in late January in Kent (as usual), almost immediately into London, then Edinburgh, then Manchester. Loads of mutations, so its interaction with the vaccine isn't fully understood yet.
Hopefully, once the weather improves, numbers will be reduced enough so that potentially-difficult strains such as this can be tracked and controlled, but we all have a part to play in giving the virus as few opportunities to travel as possible.
Question..
All adults are going to be offered the vaccine by end of July however is the intention to offer all adults a booster every year? Or just the vulnerable groups?
I'd assume they'd probably want to offer everyone, especially if other countries have limitations on travel for those not vaccinated. But if that's the case how would they possibly manage the ongoing rollout? The Herculean effort to get everyone jabbed in 6 months is truly epic, however hardly sustainable on an ongoing basis.
You'd probably only need half number of the jabs you are giving this year as its boosters so only one shot for everyone, plus you have a year to do it rather than 6 months. But even still, how could that possibly be managed without a permanent army of vaccinators in place?
All adults are going to be offered the vaccine by end of July however is the intention to offer all adults a booster every year? Or just the vulnerable groups?
I'd assumed the latter. Do it with the flu jag. Maybe extend the age qualification slightly as they already did this year.
Or hope that we develop a nasal spray that folk can do at home.
An optimistic viewpoint would be that you'd offer at-risk groups a jab on the same basis as the current annual flu vaccination, based on likely-to-be-dominant strains at that point. It depends on the effectiveness and longevity of the vaccine, the ongoing level of mortality and morbidity in other adults, and raw case numbers going into winter. This year I'm hoping they'll get back around the whole adult population in Autumn/early winter this year with the revised vaccine - Novovax is due to come on stream in August/September, I think, so maybe that will be developed with this in mind.
Well, if you’ve now got 10,000 volunteer vaccinators, that’s 6000 people each to vaccinate.
Take out all the social distancing & PPE requirements then it would be a lot quicker.
If a booster campaign started in September I reckon it would be completed by Xmas. Then maybe every 2 years?
I also read that many 2nd gen Covid vaccines are designed to be more resistant to mutation.
One of the experts on the Zoe Webinar stated that there are only so many mutations possible in key parts of the virus whilst maintaining the ability to transmit to humans. This is unlike flu.
Are all the vaccines spike protein based?