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binners, that was Dr Caroline Johnson – my MP; a hospital consultant. I hope she’s a better consultant than she is an MP.
She's just been absolutely savaged by Emma Barnett.
She stated confidently that everyone was entitled to some sort of furlough. She then had it pointed out to her repeatedly that there are over 4 million people (I'm one of them) who are entitled to nothing at all. She said that she was unaware of this. The scary thing was that she wasn't bullshitting. It was obvious that this was the first she'd heard about it. 4 million+ taxpayers have had no income since March and absolutely no government help, and this was clearly news to her.
She then got very sniffy when it was pointed out to her that as an MP, maybe she should indeed be aware of this and not be making bold statements to the contrary
Seems my original assumption was right.... ****ing clueless!
This is no criticism of you AA, it is simply repeating what the government said about using testing to help keep schools ‘COVID safe’ when everyone was back to being onsite. They need to target the testing available to deliver what they promised, or schools will struggle more than necessary to stay open.
And just think, if the government prioritised the testing - both availability and turnaround - for key workers like this - then AA could already be back in front of a class.
Johnson is busy turning himself inside out at PMQs as regards COVID-19… he needs to stick to delivering what’s written in advance for him… he can’t answer any questions on anything, can he?
How would the school act differently? The head is aware of the situation and I asked if they wanted me to try and get tested.
I understand your point of view and in an ideal situation contacts should be tested regardless but they are not. Thems the rules, I dont like them but thats it. Anyway I’m off out on the turbo, speak later!
“Thems the rules”.....devised by bozos for bozos!
I think if you can’t/don’t want to get a test then you have to assume you have Covid based on your misses positive result and the fact you now have similar symptoms.
That being the case the school should really inform the parents of all the kids in your classes (and maybe even the whole year/school) that you most likely have Covid. This would hopefully ensure that any minor sniffles are not dismissed and the kids you have come into contact with have a much lower threshold for getting a test/isolating.
Contacts shouldn’t be tested ‘regardless’… but school staff, just like care home staff and hospital staff, should be
I agree.
And just think, if the government prioritised the testing – both availability and turnaround – for key workers like this – then AA could already be back in front of a class.
I dont think this is the case, I'm grounded regardless, this is because the infectious window is bigger than the testing window. I could have tested negative on monday gone to work wednesday and then be able to then test positive thursday.
“Thems the rules”…..devised by bozos for bozos!
If you cant be civil feel free to **** off!
Not directed at you AA, just saying the rules aren’t the best.
Ok apology accepted, tired grump and bored, sorry
Understandable.
Good interview from a lab in World At One just now... take away is... why the hell aren't we doing pooled testing (as TiRed suggests for classes)?!?
P-Jay, that’s a sobering tale, thanks for sharing it.
The assertion that over 80% of people will have it without even realising is quite startling, is that an actual fact, or do we not have the absolute proof yet…?
Please forgive the naïve question…
There is no absolute proof of much when it comes to Covid, it's just so new. It will be years before there are many really established facts and even then they'll be in review..
According to WHO and the Nursing Times more than 80% of people who have been infected with Covid will show either no symptoms at all, or such mild symptoms they could be disregarded as a cold / lack of sleep, a hangover even DOMs.
In adults it's young Women between 18 and early 40s who are the mostly likely to show no symptoms. They will all be contagious to some level, for some time, but there is a coloration between symptoms and contagion because "coughs and sneezes spread diseases" and if you have a mild fever you're obviously sweating so more likely to leave it when your hands are etc.
The problem is that 'we' don't have a 100% accurate Covid test, but it's not bad, we don't have a very reliable test to know if you've had it, the Antibody test can confirm you've had it. but a negative test don't prove you didn't at all.
No one 'really' knows how dangerous Covid to the population as a whole, but obviously we know how dangerous it is on an individual level because it's killed nearly 1m people.
So, lets say 40% of carriers have no idea, another 40% may think "it's only a cold" or just ignore it as something 'normal'. And it's possible to transmit it, even before symptoms show themselves and that is why it managed to reach every corner of the globe and why it's so important to Social Distance, Wear a mask, wash hands etc - it's entirely possible for 1 person with covid to infect another, a week later that person infects someone else and down the line 6 more times before it reaches the 7th person in the link so gets really sick.
The weak as piss measures are the result of political calculations, most likely by Dumb Dom himself.
They are trying to give the populace enough rope again, so stricter measures can be phased in. And they are hoping it can be done with some clickbaity stories about illegal house parties to portray themselves as the reluctant parent having to discipline the unruly kids.
It is a strange way to fight a pandemic, but not when you look at who is in charge.
They are trying to give the populace enough rope again, so stricter measures can be phased in.
And with that, it then means when the economy tanks and job losses are through the roof, then it was the populous to blame and not the government.
Buck passing you say? Who'd have thunk it. Get ready for... "companies should have been preparing for this mess we've created, even in the middle of a pandemic we failed to keep under control"... in just three months time. Wrong thread? Sorry. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all.
Wrong thread? Sorry.
It is all one big 'life-thread' of ****erdom when you think about it.
So cases starting to rise, and hospitalisations following as predicted.
How long until we run out of PPE again? I have ZERO faith that we have sensibly stockpiled for the winter.
I have ZERO faith that we have sensibly stockpiled for the winter.
I suspect that what awaits us now is groundhog day as all the mistakes from February onwards are repeated in the same order
I wish you were wrong, but..........
No one ‘really’ knows how dangerous Covid to the population as a whole, but obviously we know how dangerous it is on an individual level because it’s killed nearly 1m people.
That's about the size of it. Watching Squire Swayne of New Forest West on the TV this morning he seemed to be of the opinion we should have just had a herd by infection blitz in the summer. As ever my view is the whole death or wellness is overly simplistic. There is much made of the economic, psychological and social damage of measures to disrupt transmission chains. There will be a lot economic, psychological and social damage cause by unchecked infection. I think we could assume that if infection is running rampant at some point people become very scared or super cautious and go into isolation themselves. Then we are at lots of dead or debilitated and severe economic shock.
In short no or low damage solution despite what the earnest excuse brigade seem to think.
Another large leap in cases today 6,178
Daily deaths have doubled to 34 as well...
I suspect that what awaits us now is groundhog day as all the mistakes from February onwards are repeated in the same order
Don't worry - the odds are on there being a whole host of new and exiting mistakes for us to watch being made, not just all the previous ones all over.
How long until we run out of PPE again? I have ZERO faith that we have sensibly stockpiled for the winter.
There are plenty of thrusting, buccaneering new companies on the radio offering PPE for a price.
Where there's money to be made....
So what’s this about? 48hrs and still no test for junior. Yet my Mrs bumped into a friend of hers who’s an NhS manager. She says most of the test sites down south are empty of people, and they’ve bags of tests ready to go.
Wtf?
I suspect that what awaits us now is groundhog day as all the mistakes from February onwards are repeated in the same order
Worth repeating. We’ll still hear ‘unprecedented’ plenty of times, and the suggestion that no one warned of, or expected, this second spike. We should still avoid the worst of the damage and deaths though, because no matter what the donkeys in charge get wrong, the medical profession is now far more prepared for this, and more members of the public know not to wait for the government to act to do what is required of them at work, home and play.
Kryton, regrettably there's nothing unusual in that; I posted up there ^^^ about my experience of trying to book a test anywhere within a reasonable distance of Lincoln.
Email your local MP to express your concern but don't expect much by way of a response; I'm still waiting for my MP, a hospital consultant, or one of her staff to respond to me.
Whoop, got a test booked tomorrow midday for me and Jnr. Although I'm not looking forward to it now, more for his schools/benefit.
An odd feeling though because if one of us tests positive, both kids are off school for two weeks and I'm not racing next weekend.
Down the throat until you gag then wiggle around a bit; after that, waaay up your nose for a 10 count.
Can you guys settle a debate for me. Now 14 days from the contacts first symptoms would include 2nd. But it says isolate until 2nd to me that means out of jail on 2nd, go to work that day. Views?
As you have been identified as a contact of someone who has recently tested positive for COVID-19, you must now self-isolate as soon as possible and stay at home until 2nd of October. You must do this even if you do not have symptoms or you get tested and receive a negative result. This is because you may still be infectious with COVID-19. The link below contains more information.
Good luck Kryton, fingers crossed its negative. What race you doing?
Well I've been out for a beer for the first ****ing time this year.... Got one I have no useful contribution to make. I hummed and hawed all day.. . Should I go? One mate, 11 months since I'd had a beer in a pub with mates (young family intervenes) it feels good. Maybe everyone should get a ration book of passes. You can have a small social once a month, hand your ticket in at the bar.
Right, back to lock down now... I can do this for a winter
Good luck Kryton, fingers crossed its negative. What race you doing?
Thanks. Im confident it is negative, Jnr is much better today. A Gorrick 3hr on Saturday.
Whoop, got a test booked tomorrow midday for me and Jnr. Although I’m not looking forward to it now, more for his schools/benefit.
Its no biggie dude I have done it twice. Yes its a little uncomfortable but its all over in like a minute.
From The Times on wednesday...
https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1308673213254299648?s=20
So much for following the science.
It’ll be evidence from the nudge group, not evidence provided on whether it’ll affect transmission directly.
Nudge to further restrictions in preparation for further restrictions.
Rather than just being honest and trustworthy, which they don’t know how to do.
And suddenly an app appears!
Took my daughter for a Covid test on Tuesday, she’s asthmatic, was poorly last week and developed a cough over the weekend. Doctor recommended the test.
We live in Bedfordshire, fairly rural but MK, Bedford and Northampton all reasonably close.
I made the request online, offered at least 6 walk-in centres within 10 miles and 2 drive in centres, within 30. All same day appointments with plenty of options. Really easy to book, we opted for drive in 22 miles away. Upon arrival it was really well organised. We were there about 20 mins, got there about 15 mins before our appt and were seen straight away. She’s 11 so I had to do her test. No other cars came in for a test while we were there.
Got her results back yesterday morning at 10am (negative). Her test was at 3pm the day before. I’m actually very impressed with the entire process.
Other areas appear to be different. But I found organising and taking the test easier than trying to speak to the GP.
It’ll be evidence from the nudge group, not evidence provided on whether it’ll affect transmission directly.
Nudge to further restrictions in preparation for further restrictions.
Rather than just being honest and trustworthy, which they don’t know how to do.
This.
These prats in 'government' know how ineptly they have been handling this, so they've resorted to giving the populace enough rope again. They are more concerned about the politics than the virus.
I've got to say, I don't get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all. If you're so inclined, you build up your drinking to reach maximum pissedness at closing time and adjusting that won't change behaviour one iota, just the timing of it.
Yet it ****s up food places, who now can't do a 7pm and 9pm sitting, and of course when drinkers are still behaving entirely predictably gives this useless Gov someone to blame. Which of course will be proportionally the younger generation again.
The 10pm thing is just indecision from.a weak PM
Wants to be seen to be doing something, doesn't have the courage to shut pubs again
I’ve got to say, I don’t get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all. If you’re so inclined, you build up your drinking to reach maximum pissedness at closing time and adjusting that won’t change behaviour one iota, just the timing of it.
Or people will just continue to drink like normal then go to their friends house for another few hours which is most likely. The majority of transmissions seems to be coming from people mixing in homes I dont get why England don't follow Scotland and do that.
Also, we finally got a track and trace app... im sure it will be world beating!
"Evidence"
LOL
Anyone who believes 10pm closing will make the least bit of difference is out of their tiny mind. R is up around 1.3-1.6, means we need to cut our total contacts by at least a third, probably better to aim for half to suppress the virus, which was what Johnson explicitly stated was his aim.
(this is why the R number has some salience as opposed to just thinking of the doubling time)
I am not sure this is the right thread - I did haver - but has anybody else noticed more Scottish politicians on the main news since UK Gov stopped BBC showing Ms Sturgeon's briefings? Is this the law of unintended consequences? I have seen Mr Swinney and Ms Forbes on the main BBC news about the pandemic this week I am sure that is a new thing!
Don't get the 10pm too.
If its about people being drunk why not just ban the sale of alcohol at 9.30 and then at 10 all alcohol must be removed from tables with food and soft drinks served as normal.
Kryton, regrettably there’s nothing unusual in that; I posted up there ^^^ about my experience of trying to book a test anywhere within a reasonable distance of Lincoln.
@Frank - did they offer you a test at Humber Bridge? I pass there twice a day and there hasn't been more than half a dozen cars at the test site since it opened (apart from staff cars of course) Must be loads of capacity there
Is this the law of unintended consequences?
Beeb always strives for balance tbf, even during brexit they had a load of utter retards on. It's not always a good thing, but at this time, I think it is.
I must admit that the 10 p.m thing did completely baffle me (people would go to the pub earlier,go back to houses after shutting time) so the fact SAGE has said that it is nothing to do with them then suddenly it starts to make sense. (in that Bozo is making it up as he goes along)
The testing capacity limits aren't about the test centres themselves, it's about the capacity of the labs to process the tests completed from them and home testing. IIRC the health secretary said at the weekend we're still at a limit of 250k per day.
RM.
The 10pm thing is just indecision from.a weak PM
Wants to be seen to be doing something, doesn’t have the courage to shut pubs again
Bluff, bluster and bullshit.
It is all he has, ever has had and ever will have.
Us proles are just along for the ride.
Got her results back yesterday morning at 10am (negative).
Great news and glad it went smoothly.
Could it be they were advised a curfew might be needed from 22:00 and Team Boris has gone for a fun time alternative? Same as everyone else I can just see this resulting in more drinking at home before and after. Plus a rise in the unsanctioned events / raves / parties. Guess this winter is going to get the measure of our humanity.
you must now self-isolate as soon as possible and stay at home until 2nd of October
Any views on this am I free on 2nd or on 3rd because 14 days isolation means out on 3rd
I'd say it says you are free to go about your business as you wish on the 2nd
I’d say it says you are free to go about your business as you wish on the 2nd
Thats what I said, mrs anagallis disagrees
Its no biggie dude I have done it twice. Yes its a little uncomfortable but its all over in like a minute.
Yep, a few gag moments was the worst thing, the nasal bit I didn't mind. Junior though managed to puke up some bile by jabbing it down his throat too much.
I found the whole biological warfare style experience worse on my anxiety than the test itself TBH.
Don’t get the 10pm too.
Who knows.
Maybe its the nudge unit at work - two weeks time, 9pm, two weeks after that, 6pm, leave hospitality venues open, but maybe not at peak drunk hours.
Maybe it was just made up in front of the cameras.
Maybe it was deemed to look good about doing something whilst not actually doing anything.
To me it just seems to have a flavour of fail about it.
So our world class test track and trace strike again.
Partner told people in house isolate for 14 days from symptoms, that means freedom for me on 3rd.
My email said
stay at home until 2nd of October
Partner just got text saying I stay at home until 14 from the test day which means freedom on 4th.......
****ing shambles doesnt even cover it!!
I’ve got to say, I don’t get why the change to 10pm closing will have any effect at all.
Purely anecdotal, but I've walked past our local spoons the last 2 nights and it's been dead both nights, a quite incredible difference on the usual.
Its busy every night normally, and rammed thu onward.
That’s odd, because on the gov website it says 10 days from symptoms or if symptom free 10 days from the test (if positive). So is it 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, or in your case 15 days?
'Students studding in Scotland can't go home for Xmas'.
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
Going from one household to another I'd imagine.
That’s odd, because on the gov website it says 10 days from symptoms or if symptom free 10 days from the test (if positive). So is it 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, or in your case 15 days?
Thats for the person who tested positive.
The confusion seems to lie in "close contacts" are from day of symptoms, whilst household members are from day if test.
Students studding in Scotland can’t go home for Xmas’.
What is the law are they breaking if they do?
Yep, once they've left home they become a separate household, and if households can't mix....
DOH
Trust me, thats not "busy in London". It also conflicts with the news this morning where the additional Police patrols reported no issues and a quiet evening. Also quite obviously the letter of the CoronaLaw appears to be flouted a lot in that video.
Who's right?
‘Students studding in Scotland can’t go home for Xmas’.
I think Margaret Atwood is interested. I can think of a few laws, none COVID19 related 🙂
Time to dust off the smallest violins again: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54289715 FFS, given the figures involved I'm sure they have that themselves down the back of a sofa...
I'll send a hat round!
Don’t get the 10pm too.
Here in Wales / Cardiff some our biggest problems managing Social Distancing etc have come from people heading into 'Town' for a night out. We have very few clubs left now, just massive bars that you have to queue and pay to get in, had little or no seating and dance floors. Night clubs in all but name. They did make changes to reopen during the summer, but about a dozen of them were issued with Covid warnings and a few forced to close, but it's really hard to get drunk people to SD.
In normal times a lot of these places are like the 'Wild West', there's a huge police presence to handle the violence and at least in the past there have been pop-up Field Hospitals just to try to keep people who have drunk way too much out of A&E.
My personal belief is that by going for a 10pm curfew they're making these sorts of places less worth making the trip to, to reduce the numbers and make it more manageable.
That's not to say that even 'normal' pubs don't get more rowdy as it gets later, working in Bars and Pubs long ago there's a big difference in 7pm and 10pm, and most pubs are terrible places for an airborne virus in Winter, low ceilings, little ventilation etc.
Caerphilly was the first local Welsh area to go into lockdown and they made a lot of effort into policing Pubs and Bars, their numbers started to drop within a few weeks and they may come out of lockdown soon, which will hopefully reverse the idea of this inevitable march towards a huge upturn in infections.
RCT which went into lockdown later has continued to see numbers rise, only in the last week they've started to crackdown on pubs and bars, which will hopefully turn the tide.
I think a 10pm curfew combined with table service and a limit of 6 per group is a good starting point. It's trying to find a balance.
Asking venues to temporarily close or limiting to take out only will probably mean most places with have to call it a day.
Surely a 10pm curfew means increased people on tube & bus at chucking out time
Appreciate it means less time drinking & mixing, which reduces spread
And also that balance needs to be struck for business
But Belgium's curfew was cited by Hancock as being their model & while it seemed to have slowed cases over the summer, they are rising again now & looking at stricter lockdown
For many reasons distancing, masks, WFH, etc spread here should be much less than it was in 1st wave
But seems very naive to be sitting here again looking at Europe, shaking our heads & assuming we are not on a similar trajectory
Ha! Appart from the fact that I wish I was still 'studding'.....
Can the PM/Govt just say it's illegal and it's is? What is the current law they have broken? What will they be charged with in court?
It's mental to even suggest students can't go home for Christmas. Many have 4 weeks off, accommodation may not be available, catered halls won't be providing meals, it's an additional cost, kids away from home for the first time, under these conditions. It's unenforceable, impractical and ethically wrong. This would only be appropriate under full country lockdown and then the Cummings defense would come into play, people might feel they would be better off elsewhere despite being told to stay put, if it was Ok for Cummings......
Can the PM/Govt just say it’s illegal and it’s is? What is the current law they have broken? What will they be charged with in court?
My understanding is that in Scotland, two households can't mix under the Covid laws? Need one of our Scottish residents to confirm.
MCTD Correct.
What will they be charged with in court?
I've not read up on it tbh, as I won't be breaking this particular law, but if they haven't made it law, then good old 'breach of the peace' can be dusted off. And it wouldn't go to court, it's a spot fine, which increases each time yer a dick.
It is. And also is in Northern Ireland, much of the North of England, and in a lot of South Wales. It's just a fine if you are caught though... some will consider that cheaper than staying put... especially if there's no on site learning, no social contact, no catering, inadequate kitchens etc. But it if the Unis double down and throw people off of courses, and out of halls... well, I don't know what to think about it to be honest. I think that Unis should have just said when the A level results mess was ongoing... "distance learning, stay at home, all going well we'll get together in person after Xmas"... but they couldn't afford to without support from the government at the time... and there's no point looking to them for any forward planning... ministers have been sent out to do the media today to share one message... "no one thought that this would happen this autumn"... gaslighting liars that they are... they said what was needed to return to education this autumn... and they failed to deliver any of it in time or to the required scale.
Seriously useful session:
cheers BillMC
I think a 10pm curfew combined with table service and a limit of 6 per group is a good starting point. It’s trying to find a balance.
But it doesn't stop the fact the main point of transmissions seems to be people visiting homes. All people will do is oh its 10 i still want to drink lets go to so and so house.
the main point of transmissions seems to be people visiting homes
When we actually have a fully working track and trace system... we'll see. Detecting transmission in homes is easy peasy. The focus on the transmissions at home happens to fit in very well with the government's decision to ask people not to visit each other at home, but keep going out...
Anyway, strong graph work (in a social context) by Christina Pagel. Thanks for sharing Bill.
My local news said that of 23 cases this week 6 were in a police station, another cluster in a care home and that 5 were "specifically related to schools or nuseries" so the data seems to be around, why us this not feeding thru' a a national level?