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https://twitter.com/weinsteinlaw/status/1233623798273974273?s=21
Phew, thankfully trump seems to have finally stepped up to the office of president and has this virus 🦠 under control , back to normal folks....nothing to see here
Good piece in the Guardian written by someone who had the virus;
Going to be interesting to see what the government emergency measures are. Increasing class sizes doesn't exactly sound sensible - putting more people in a small space would hot house the virus.
Also wondering how long be for viral media contributes to viral spread - just a thought from watching The Last Leg last night and the 'morris dancing' around not shaking hands. I might be miss remembering the advice of Parkie from viz but 'no, xxxk, nothing' might be a better approach. If the advice is your risk is greater within 2m then keep your distance might seem better.
Going to be interesting to see what the government emergency measures are. Increasing class sizes doesn’t exactly sound sensible – putting more people in a small space would hot house the virus.
Got to keep the schools open even if teachers are dropping because as we all know schools are just looking after the kids so that the drone parents can keep working.
"Lots of people in masks with full trolleys and no antibacterial products left"
Brilliant. A masterclass in what not to do.
Go out and mix with a large group of people when you don't have to, wearing a pointless piece of equipment, panic buy and use an anti bacterial hand wash to protect against a viral infection.
Just brilliant.
What use is antibacterial soap?
many bactericides are also virucides even if not advertised as such. And indeed fungicide if you want to cover your bases.
However, these 'kill 99.9% of germs' - are frankly a waste - that's under lab conditions, not a quick wipe over and even if it did, when loads can be easily in the millions or billions, that might reduce it to a few 10's or hundreds of thousands. Add in the replication rate of bacteria.....and in a short time you're back where you were.
If we're being picky, antibacterial soap is probably not even more effective against bacteria than ordinary soap. It's marketing. The mechanical action of washing your hands with soap is what sanitises them, provided you do it properly.
But if the 'antiwhatever' label encourages people to wash their hands more often, and more thoroughly, then that's a good thing.
Got to keep the schools open even if teachers are dropping because as we all know schools are just looking after the kids so that the drone parents can keep working.
Yep, protect the economy. It might just be code for delay the inevitable.
“Lots of people in masks with full trolleys and no antibacterial products left”
Keep it simple is definitely better - bar of soap, bottle of bleach to dilute down.
Probably the thing that is missing is a good hand cream - Norwegian Formula or the like - from experience washing you hands for a required time becomes much more of a chore once you're skin starts getting raw and cracking.
Was intersting to see the news do a bit on how to self isolate when you have multiple people in the house. Looked a very cluttered kitchen to be trying to separate and sort. Next handy tip might be - de clutter, it's going to be a pain dealing with cleaning and separating in clutter.
Food deliveries should work over panic buying but going back to my favourite foot and mouth analogies. The milk tankers going between farms spread the virus in some areas. If it goes to food deliveries are we all going to need to start wiping down the deliveries with disinfectant. Just because you don't know what's happened before it arrives to you.
I've also been wondering how isolation works for people in poorer quality housing. There are often going to be places that suffer from damp and so mould. Potentially there's a double whammy there of creating an environment for chest problems before any virus comes into play. Couple that with people who are on zero hours contracts and so no work no pay means fuel poverty will exacerbate the situation further.
Atleast with mobile phones and a lot of people having location turned on its going to be easy to show exactly where you've been if you catch it. Presents a few worrying big brother issues though.
Brilliant. A masterclass in what not to do.
Go out and mix with a large group of people when you don’t have to, wearing a pointless piece of equipment, panic buy and use an anti bacterial hand wash to protect against a viral infection.
The masks provide a little protection and prevention as they reduce the amount of droplets a person produces when sneezing or coughing, standard masks won’t offer much prolonged protection from airborne viruses though. The sanitiser if 60% or greater based offers very good protection and prevention though.
Still panic buying really doesn’t help anyone though except some people feel better for themselves.
I'm more afraid of mass hysteria than the virus. Humans struggle to tolerate strangers at the best of times. I can imagine mass fighting in the aisles to get the last tin of Bigga peas at this rate.
Still panic buying really doesn’t help anyone though except some people feel better for themselves.
Making sure you have a couple of week's worth of food and essentials tucked away isn't really panicking. Even sensible Yanks agree:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/
I’m more afraid of mass hysteria than the virus.
it’s my understanding that alcohol hand wash is effective against viruses, particularly corona virus due to its structure (whereas it’s less effective against e.g. norovirus)use an anti bacterial hand wash to protect against a viral infection.Just brilliant.
There's a difference between anti-bacterial soap and alcohol-based hand sanitiser. The latter is a useful thing to have if you're out and about without access to handwashing facilities.
Personal bugbear - why do toilet doors generally open inwards? You wash your hands and then have to grab a handle which has been fondled by all the dirty buggers who didn't bother washing theirs.
Making sure you have a couple of week’s worth of food and essentials tucked away isn’t really panicking. Even sensible Yanks agree:
Correct it isn’t that’s called a big shop, clearing the shelves for months worth of supplies and products you’d never normally use in large quantities is
it’s my understanding that alcohol hand wash is effective against viruses, particularly corona virus due to its structure (whereas it’s less effective against e.g. norovirus)
Not always no marketing something as alcohol cleanser isn’t as good as ‘Anti-bacterial kills 99% of all germs’ it’s tends to be just a generic name people use.
Still panic buying really doesn’t help anyone though except some people feel better for themselves.
See you are still struggling with this one. It is not panic buying, it is just calm and planned buying. Topping up with slightly more than I normally would over the last few weeks. No panic at all and just front loading the cost of my shopping if nothing happens.
See you are still struggling with this one.
I’m not at all a few weeks worth of produce is normal see above.
@ferrals
Out of interest where were these people shopping wearing masks. I've not seen any.
Correct it isn’t that’s called a big shop,
I think it's unusual because a lot of people operate on a 'just in time' approach to grocery shopping, with a handful of supermarket trips a week rather than stocking up, meal planning, etc.
Shit just got real..
https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/02/men-scramble-to-find-a-personality-after-cdc-suggests-shaving-beard-to-stop-coronavirus/
When bog roll supplies run out, use yesterday’s newspapers – many of which are, correctly, described as arse-wipes.
With declining print sales that means many of us will have to resort to wiping with our laptops and phones. Bringing back haunting memories of Nizoral
Given the exponential transmission rate there ain't no stopping this. I more concerned of the dumb f!ck witts out there panic buying and stripping the shelves than dying of it.
Human are unable to stop pollution but Coronavirus can.
Coronavirus: Nasa images show China pollution clear amid slowdown
@jobro - apparently - but this was in swansea centre just after the news broke there was someone with coronavirus here. I've not seen anyone in a mask yet
Can confirm the beneficial aspects of Corona-virus on the environment, usually we get a pleasant 3-4 week window of clean air for Chinese New Year as the factories shut down but Im rather enjoying the extended break.
^^
Interesting what this says about humans I suppose?
The only thing that stops is polluting and killing ourselves in the long term is to be threatened with death in the short term.
Hmm....
We are screwed as a species I think.
So mobilising all those retired doctors and health workers eh? How's that gonna play out - you know from the Government that screwed-over the health service and their pensions: "Excuse me. we'd like you to come back to work and expose yourself to a virus that is particularly fatal to the elderly"...yeah, right
It will be fine, a WHO senior person just stated how Britain always comes together in time of crisis.
I think someone needs to tell her it is not 1942 anymore...
The kinds of people that this applies to though are in my opinion public spirited, helpful, and they probably will answer the call in spite of the way they've been treated and any risk involved.
I've always been of the opinion that solving problems that need expertise, requires people with that expertise to do it. Why don't we quickly train and equip the multitude of politicians, their family members that are being paid to 'run' their offices, their SPADS, their SPADS' advisors, and get them out on the front line swabbing suspected cases and deep cleaning infected areas for little over minimum wage. And meanwhile get all these recently retired doctors and nurses and NHS staff with the required expertise in to run the country through this crisis.
I’m not at all a few weeks worth of produce is normal see above.
But I have more than that, and more importantly have ensured I have a lot of non perishables which I wouldn't normally buy (i.e. lots of tinned products and frozen stuff). Much more than I would normally have.
If I can' get to shops for 4 weeks due a combination of self isolation, shops being shut, deliveries not operating etc,. then 2 weeks of food is not going to cut it.
If nothing happens I just eat all the food and don't have to buy any shopping for 3 weeks.
You see, just a calm bit of planning.
It will be fine, a WHO senior person just stated how Britain always comes together in time of crisis.I think someone needs to tell her it is not 1942 anymore…
To be fair, I’m quite ok with the idea of working from home and then using my van to deliver food/consumables in the event of something serious that does severely affect people being able to get stuff. No idea how I’d go about that mind you. A Coronavirus food bank of some description.
So long as I don’t go to the office my interaction with vulnerable individuals can be limited to almost nothing and my age and health put me in a relatively low risk group.
Can’t say it’d be pleasant, but it’d be better than finding out some retired old dude suffered as a result of fear of exposure.
So mobilising all those retired doctors and health workers eh? How’s that gonna play out – you know from the Government that screwed-over the health service and their pensions: “Excuse me. we’d like you to come back to work and expose yourself to a virus that is particularly fatal to the elderly”…yeah, right
That proposal betrays a certain desperation.
There's only me and my wife. We could take a month or two unpaid at home if needed. The food would be crap but we could probably manage off the food we have in the freezer and non perishables (we tend to buy in bulk and get delivered topping up perishables).
However, my mum would struggle. She lives alone 2 hundred miles away and would be at risk in age terms. There must be millions like her. It's one thing being locked I. Your house on zwift and Netflix but it is t going to be like that for some. It will be scary and challenging. And that's of you are just waiting it out rather than feeling unwell.
I'm also worried about the public at large. There has been a potential case about a mile away from me. Ambulances and hazmat suits spotted. The shit on Facebook is unreal ignorance and panic. That type of behaviour is a real concern.
Doctors will do it. Of the ones I know anyway. They might hate the government but they tend to take the hyppocratic oath seriously and genuinely see their position and skills as a duty.
They might hate the government but they tend to take the hyppocratic oath seriously and genuinely see their position and skills as a duty.
I think you’ll find very few British medical schools actually use the Hyppocratic path or equivalent.
Doctors will do it. Of the ones I know anyway. They might hate the government but they tend to take the hyppocratic oath seriously and genuinely see their position and skills as a duty.
Possibly, but the ‘unwritten contract’ of loyalty to the NHS/state has been severely eroded by the unremitting screwing over of junior doctors over the years, more recently the pension issue where some older Drs have being paying more in tax than they actually earned and the impact on work-life balance of chronic understaffing due to wilful under-training against the population needs. Chickens home to roost etc.
Is now the perfect time to get Covid-19?
If it seems like it's going to become endemic across the world until everyone's got immunity or there's a vaccine (possibly > 1 year away) then either tucking yourself safely away at home for two weeks until it's over or a guarantee of a nice private room and ultra-attentive treatment at a hospital somewhere if needed seems infinitely preferable to waiting until the point where the hospital is replaced by bunkbeds in a football stadium somewhere.
dovebiker
Member
So mobilising all those retired doctors and health workers eh? How’s that gonna play out – you know from the Government that screwed-over the health service and their pensions: “Excuse me. we’d like you to come back to work and expose yourself to a virus that is particularly fatal to the elderly”…yeah, right
Yes - this seems bonkers. All those retired Doctors and health workers - the ones in the age bracket of increased mortality from this virus - will decide to put themselves, and their similarly aged spouses, at risk by working in the front line of the virus ... just bonkers!
As for panic buying; no sign of it around my local area. The supermarkets all had full shelves of antibacterial soaps/wipes etc, plenty bog rolls, and nobody wearing face masks.
I guess the people panic buying now are the harbinger to the sorts of people who go out and buy 20 pts of milk and 25 loaves of bread when they see threat of snow on the TV.
If you think about places where thousands of people congregrete indoors for extended periods then the whole Ibiza nightclub scene has to be up there
Lots of hot sweaty people raving away for hours with depleted imune systems through drink and drug and lack of sleep, most of whom will have flown there , and taken part in sexual activity ( apparantly ) Perfect breeding ground for virus growth and distribution, then they fly home and share it betweem another 300 people stuck in a metal tube with re-circulated air for 2hrs
win win
S'pose any concert venue ticks alot of boxes as well mind, as do night clubs in general
Blimey, entire city lockdowns being held as options for the UK.
Been isolating as a family since Tuesday now after N Italy ski trip and eldest boy developed cough/cold. It's never gone beyond that symptom wise and neither have the rest of us in the house developed any symptoms at all so probably nothing.
He does have some (in the past) respiratory medical history though so after speaking with 111 the NHS nurses came round, got kitted up and took a sample Wednesday with three day turn around stated. Still awaiting result and going slowly cabin feverish now. We know others that were tested have had results but 111 know nothing re access/delivery of results and I'm not keen to add to what must be an overwhelming amount of incoming contacts at all points for the NHS...but also keen to be able to return to some normality next week. Not least a bike ride with some mates!
erfect breeding ground for virus growth and distribution, then they fly home and share it betweem another 300 people stuck in a metal tube with re-circulated air for 2hrs
Air flow on a plane is top-to-bottom, not lengthways throughout the cabin. The air goes through HEPA filters which will filter out the virus. If your neighbour has it and coughs on you it's a different thing.
So mobilising all those retired doctors and health workers eh? How’s that gonna play out – you know from the Government that screwed-over the health service and their pensions: “Excuse me. we’d like you to come back to work and expose yourself to a virus that is particularly fatal to the elderly”…yeah, right
It’ll work out quite well. Lots of retired doctors now do locum work as it pays extremely well, they not exactly elderly either.
drink and drug and lack of sleep, most of whom will have flown there , and taken part in sexual activity
Not a bad way to go.....
12 more cases in U.K. Now. The thing of concern seems to be that two cases have no travel or contact history, suggesting it is wider in the community than generally believed
12 more cases just confirmed in England..
I suspect well have a few hundred more in next 48 hrs and it'll grow exponentially from there.
"Given the exponential transmission rate there ain’t no stopping this."
Except it's not exponential. If it was there would be millions infected already with deaths in the hundreds of thousands, instead of being a tiny fraction of the usual flu deaths...
Cheesus, you lot are as bad as the daily wail!
The thing of concern seems to be that two cases have no travel or contact history, suggesting it is wider in the community than generally believed
1 currently has no known contact history out of the 12.
First confirmed case in Greater Manchester reported at 14:15. Linked to travel to N. Italy.
I think the OP's thread title will become increasingly ironic over the coming weeks.
12 more cases in U.K. Now. The thing of concern seems to be that two cases have no travel or contact history, suggesting it is wider in the community than generally believed
Of course it is wider. 100's of people in the UK will have it, they just don't know it as 60% of people who have it are not particularly unwell.
So worst case at the moment is that there are 2 confirmed cases who have possibly caught it from someone else in the UK rather than from a known hotspot. Not panicking yet.
A few more cases in Bavaria.... Strangely all around Munich, but not in Munich, fortunately.
Exciting times.
Just been out for coffee and cake with a friend. She's from South Tirol.
Her brother is under official quarantine. He works alongside the one guy who has officially tested positive in the region (colleague was previously in Lombardi).
Her brother has to stay indoors and check in pet telephone every three hours and give his temperature readings.
Crazy.
Drac
It’ll work out quite well. Lots of retired doctors now do locum work as it pays extremely well, they not exactly elderly either.
Practically all the locum Doctors I see within my line of work would not be described as newly retired; vast majority are early thirties ... certainly not the newly retired Doctors the government are referring to. So mixing the locum Doctors with this group and suggesting the governments plan would work quite well is plain daft and ill informed.
Practically all the locum Doctors I see within my line of work would not be described as newly retired; vast majority are early thirties
Yes as I say locum work pays well so you get lots of retired doing it or those with families doing it. It’s like a zero our contract but pays very well they’re not all elderly.
Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission
on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
"For countries with imported cases and/or outbreaks of COVID-19
1. Immediately activate the highest level of national Response Management
protocols to ensure the all-of-government and all-of-society approach needed to
contain COVID-19 with non-pharmaceutical public health measures;
2. Prioritize active, exhaustive case finding and immediate testing and isolation,
painstaking contact tracing and rigorous quarantine of close contacts;
3. Fully educate the general public on the seriousness of COVID-19 and their role in
preventing its spread;
4. Immediately expand surveillance to detect COVID-19 transmission chains, by
testing all patients with atypical pneumonias, conducting screening in some
patients with upper respiratory illnesses and/or recent COVID-19 exposure, and
adding testing for the COVID-19 virus to existing surveillance systems (e.g.
systems for influenza-like-illness and SARI); and
22
5. Conduct multi-sector scenario planning and simulations for the deployment of
even more stringent measures to interrupt transmission chains as needed (e.g.
the suspension of large-scale gatherings and the closure of schools and
workplaces).
"
I was wondering the other day whether there was an evolutionary social imperative for the younger generation to cough,splutter and infect as many of the older generation as possible.
Take it with a pinch of salt but I was speaking to someone in the trade today and 2021 bike ranges are in danger of not happening, especially ebikes. Already theres a 4 month backlog and theres discussion on whether to delay 2021 bikes to much later or just jump to 2022
And simultaneously both myself and SWMBO develop sore throats and runny noses.
Anyone want to place bets?
I was wondering the other day whether there was an
evolutionarysocial imperative for the younger generation to cough,splutter and infect as many of the older generation as possible.
I see where you're coming from and I here you, but unfortunately the young will suffer disproportionately as usual. The economic impact of this will be potentially more devastating than the effects of the virus. Seeing as we have created a culture where a high percentage of the working population barely make ends meet anyway, people living paycheck to paycheck, zero hours, generation rent etc...when workplaces grind to a halt and businesses faulter how are people already on the financial limit going to pay their bills from self-isolation? They won't. Was speculating earlier that one possibility for that scenario could be that government forced to implement interest free loans for businesses/ individuals affected, to enable people to self isolate for potentially long periods...the economics of this is presumably uncharted but could potentially just be absorbed into the national debt.
Interesting thing if people are paid to be at home but can't do their work from home...what to do to stave off cabin fever. Other than the usual box sets and talking baloney on the internet have worn off, what to do...art? crochet? Or maybe we can be gainfully employed by the government as stay at home social media troll farms, enhancing our new found position alone in the world by manipulating and undermining foreign powers, as has been done to us - the average STW user would be well skilled for this new frontier....
Blimey, entire city lockdowns being held as options for the UK.
Yeah but these will be those unimportant northern cities not the proper southern ones. I mean who would notice if we just built a big fence around Sunderland.
Anyone noticed Iplayer has 12 monkeys available at the moment?
Interesting website for stats on the virus..
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
And simultaneously both myself and SWMBO develop sore throats and runny noses.
Er...you have a cold?
Yes as I say locum work pays well so you get lots of retired doing it
Doing locum work means not retired. If you continue to do any clinical work you have to remain on the medical register, complete revaluation etc. Once it lapses you aren’t going to be able to treat patients, no indemnity etc.
I think you are confusing those who may have left a partnership or substantive post, possibly taken their pension and gone back to work. They ain’t retired.
My partner retired last month. He says he waiting by his bat phone for the call to don his cape and come to the rescue. I suspect he is joking.
I mean who would notice if we just built a big fence around Sunderland.
Well, they might not an improvement
Er…you have a cold?
Nah, it’s defo Coronamersebolacataids
that’s a great link cloudnine. There’s some other funky stuff on there such as
https://www.worldometers.info/bicycles/
Once it lapses you aren’t going to be able to treat patients, no indemnity etc.
Talking to my wife about this (also an NHS consultant) she pointed out that most of her colleagues who’ve retired recently have gone in the last year of a revalidation cycle, then let their registration lapse.
anyone thought of air con,and the risk it poses for the virus breeding, air con on a lot of trains, coaches and planes nowadays as well as cars.
Chap i used to work with was an air con specialist and his advice was soon as the temperature goes colder, turn up heating full in car open all vents and windows, and then put hand through window and turn on car and let it run for 10 mins, to blast all the nasty stuff out of the filters etc, as soon as you put the heater on youre waking up the bacteria that like warm surfaces/filters to live on.
Possibly few will put it down to marketing, or codswallop, but he believed it and so did his customers. Try it and see,Next winter.
Doing locum work means not retired. If you continue to do any clinical work you have to remain on the medical register, complete revaluation etc. Once it lapses you aren’t going to be able to treat patients, no indemnity etc.
Well yes I’m aware that being a registered HCP myself. It’s still retired but keeping registration open by doing enough hours to keep registered. I suspect it’s these and recently retired ones that is what is actually meant, remember we’ve only got the media report on this.
Chap i used to work with was an air con specialist and his advice was soon as the temperature goes colder, turn up heating full in car open all vents and windows, and then put hand through window and turn on car and let it run for 10 mins, to blast all the nasty stuff out of the filters etc, as soon as you put the heater on youre waking up the bacteria that like warm surfaces/filters to live on.
bacteria and viruses aren’t the same thing. Viruses aren’t even strictly speaking alive so they don’t need anything to ‘live’ on
Drac
Well yes I’m aware that being a registered HCP myself. It’s still retired but keeping registration open by doing enough hours to keep registered. I suspect it’s these and recently retired ones that is what is actually meant, remember we’ve only got the media report on this.
My God!! - some people are hard work!!
If Doctors are doing enough hours to keep registered then they are not retired; and government have actually stated its the recently retired doctors and nurses who would be asked to return - what exactly are you finding difficult to understand about that?
I was wondering the other day whether there was an evolutionary social imperative for the younger generation to cough,splutter and infect as many of the older generation as possible.
Was chatting to an actuary about the possible economic benefits of this pandemic on a number of levels. Savings in social care bill and housing supply pressure are obvious. Massive inheritance (and associated tax windfall) also.
I was wondering the other day whether there was an evolutionary social imperative for the younger generation to cough,splutter and infect as many of the older generation as possible.
Was chatting to an actuary about the possible economic benefits of this pandemic on a number of levels. Savings in social care bill and housing supply pressure are obvious. Massive inheritance (and associated tax windfall) also.
Am I the same species as people who think about life in these terms?
Am I the same species as people who think about life in these terms?
You'd hope not right...
raybanwomble
Member
It’s mildly amusing that the demographics most likely to die from this or get shafted by the government are the ones who mostly voted for brexit.
Unfortunately there are certain types of people who post on STW who actually find it mildly amusing that certain people will die as a result of this virus. Hate filled scum bags.
And simultaneously both myself and SWMBO develop sore throats and runny noses.
Meh.
Mrs_oab has aching muscles, headache and had a bad cough for a week. I've a sore throat and a bit muscle ache for a few days.
We've a cold. She has it worse as she has no immune system.
the economics of this is presumably uncharted but could potentially just be absorbed into the national debt.
did you catch the GE result in December
Am I the same species as people who think about life in these terms?
Err, that is their job you know.
My God!! – some people are hard work!!
Indeed they are. The retired GPS I know who do locum, there’s a lot as I’ve worked across small GP areas for 30 years, call themselves retired as they’re only working as they please. Retired does not necessarily mean stopped working altogether.