Forum menu
I'm sure all the celebrations are perfectly justified in the context of party and that apparently was oblivious to a former leaders behaviour until a formal complaint was raised after he left office.
What's important is that the process followed.....
It goes to show that even in the closest of political relationships lasting decades that you never really know the person that you spend campaigning, working and social time with.
Im sure Starmer will happily do so if hes asked again
Ross really has boxed himself into a corner tho, repeatedly making it all about breaking ministerial code & resignation hes now looking foolish
Sturgeon has once again made sure she apologised to the victims/accusers and her handling of the case did let them down, but Ross & the press have made sure that is not the big story
The backlash will now fall on whichever MSPs leaked the testimonies & Ross is going to be looking very hypocritical if he doesnt enforce his own stance on breaking the ministerial code when/if they are outed
That blowback could well gift the SNP those crucial extra few % points come May
https://twitter.com/Sheilam19534814/status/1373836343176990724?s=20
Oops
https://twitter.com/andywightman/status/1372845924263866368?s=20
Looks like Alasdair Allan, Maureen Watt and Stuart McMillan all breached the MSPs code of conduct.
Indeed Oops
Will Holyrood go after the leakers?
Looks like Alasdair Allan, Maureen Watt and Stuart McMillan all breached the MSPs code of conduct.
Eh?
Edit - in what way have they? I don't see anything covered by the code in their statements. Rather different to giving testimony to the press and to leaking partial conclusions which clearly is
I don't understand what Douglas Ross is hoping for with the Vote of No Confidence?
Option 1. Sturgeon wins. He looks like a political shit-stirrer who is distracting the government from "its important work at this critical time".
Option 2. She loses. Then what she has to go as FM? - John Swinney becomes acting FM. Is that what he wants? He'd rather see Swinney than Sturgeon run the country when we are in a crisis... holy shit he must hate Scotland! Then there's a hurried leadership election before May. The hard core SNP will still vote SNP. Some sturgeon fans may not like the new leader, but its hard to imagine any of them turning around so much to vote for the tories that just ousted her, so he's presumably getting the other opposition parties a few more votes! However, there are plenty of people in Scotland who (a) don't like the bad smell around all of this AND/OR (b) really don't like Sturgeon even if they may have some SNP sympathies. Depending who the new leader was they may actually be more inclined to vote SNP with a new leadership/cabinet than endorse the current muddle.
So what does Douglas Ross get from the vote?
|He was hoping the Hamilton report would be critical of Sturgeon and the Greens would vote for the no confidence motion
I'd guess the SNP want this to be over as soon as possible, so dragging it out any more will just leave more room for negatives, i think the saving grace for the SNP and voters is that Nicola Sturgeon is more likeable than Alex Salmond, god knows what is next is this saga, as the fallout between the two of them isn't over yet i bet!
So what does Douglas Ross get from the vote?
Air time, it's hard to compete against the daily party political broadcast covid update
A pat on the head from his handlers in Westminster ^ and a sticker saying “I’m a very good Tory”
I suspect Ross gets to say 'he tried' before being replaced as Tory leader after they lose seats in May
https://twitter.com/WhatScotsThink/status/1373908665082724355?s=19
|He was hoping the Hamilton report would be critical of Sturgeon and the Greens would vote for the no confidence motion
Yep
The rugs been pulled from under his feet on that one!
Bit of naughty editing on Wiki
Willie Rennie as ever manages to come out of it looking like an absolute prick. "The judgement from James Hamilton does not make the first minister’s resignation automatic" . Oh well, that's very good of you to say so. What a roaster... Especially considering he stood behind Alistair Carmichael's shitehawkery.
I suspect Ross gets to say ‘he tried’ before being replaced as Tory leader
I'm sure it's already been done on this thread but I did have to chuckle this evening on hearing the nickname Forres Gimp being used for him. Sums him up perfectly.
Sensible comment from Sarwar
Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, distanced his party from the Tories and indicated Labour would not back the Tory no confidence motion. “Unlike others, we have been clear from the outset that we would not prejudge the outcome of this inquiry,” he said.
“What is clear is that this entire process has deeply damaged public trust in our politics at a time of national crisis, and there are absolutely no winners today. At the heart of this are two women who have been badly let down by the government, and it remains the case that nobody has taken responsibility.”
doubling down on stupidity from Ross
Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, said his party did not agree with Hamilton’s assessment Sturgeon had an understandable memory lapse.
Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, said his party did not agree with Hamilton’s assessment Sturgeon had an understandable memory lapse.
The real memory lapse is the 20years before the allegations were made that nothing at all happened before the first alleged activity and that she neither saw or knew of such activities
Or did Salmond suddenly resort to his inappropriate behaviour out of the blue?
Air time, it’s hard to compete against the daily
party political broadcastcovid update
He could try having something to say - then presumably someone would broadcast that. Of course its difficult for him to say anything which (a) isn't bonkers AND (b) isn't perceived as agreeing with the SNP AND (c) isn't in contradiction with the UK position. Obviously the middle of the 3 being the greatest sin possible. The funny thing is that the people/press who seem most upset about any party political element are the same people who keep asking stupid political questions each day... and probably the same people who would complain that the gov are not communicating their message effectively if the meetings were stopped.
I suspect Ross gets to say ‘he tried’ before being replaced as Tory leader after they lose seats in May
Is this like School where everyone gets a shot of being the Milk Monitor?
Sarwar is smart - he realises that the absolute haters are probably going to vote Tory and not change their view, and the hardcore nats will vote SNP no matter what, so his best chance is to mop up the people disgruntled with the lot of them - who just want them to run the country and stop bickering over something which really is of interest only to the politically sensitive, rather than the masses.
Now that one is a very good point.
My guess? It was not "seen" for two reasons - one his power and two " its just Alex being Alex" Its also possible that he hid it well and / or the behaviour got more blatant over the years
But thats only my guess.
Harvie /statement
He pulls no punches
“I’ve never seen a committee process more compromised by leaks, MSPs pre-judging the evidence, and party politics over-riding the public interest. What should have been an examination of how women were failed and how we could prevent that from happening again has turned into a complete farce.
“There were serious questions that needed to be answered by this committee, that’s why we supported its creation, but it’s clear that a number of committee members have absolutely no interest in establishing the facts or seeking to create a supportive environment for women to bring forward complaints. Instead they have bought into Alex Salmond’s conspiracy hook, line and sinker in the hope of securing a political scalp.
“It’s also clear that a number of members of the committee have breached the MSP code of conduct by leaking information to the media. Perhaps more astonishing is that committee members actually giving TV interviews in the midst of their deliberations.
“This week a complainer felt it necessary to issue a statement via Rape Crisis Scotland after David Davis MP took to his feet in the Commons to use parliamentary privilege to throw around yet more of Alex Salmond’s conspiracy theories. It is utterly disgraceful that the women at the heart of this saga have been so let down by the process that they’ve felt the need to do this.
"The Scottish Greens have said throughout that we will examine both the committee report and the Hamilton ministerial code inquiry before drawing any conclusions. Despite the indefensible behaviour of members of the Committee we are still willing to do so, but their actions have clearly destroyed the credibility of their own report before anyone has had the chance to read it."
I think Harvie has hit the nail on the head with a few of his statements on this.
Committee report is out ( being discussed on the Guardian blog)
The final section of the committee’s report covers the Ministerial Code. The committee agreed that James Hamilton’s report is the most appropriate place to address the question of whether or not the first minister has breached the Scottish ministerial code
so thats Sturgeon out of danger given Hamilton clearly stated she did not breach the ministerial code
It was right that the Scottish government reviewed its procedures; indeed, it would have been extremely remiss if they had not. It is clear there was a determination to change the culture of the organisation and to ensure everyone is treated with dignity and respect.
That Salmonds conspiracy theories blown right out of the water
Looks to me like Wightman has had a large part to play in the writing of the report and has done a good job in steering the report to be fair minded and to mitigate partisan ship from the rest of the members.
someone who IMO has had their reputation enhanced thru this.
Looks like Alasdair Allan, Maureen Watt and Stuart McMillan all breached the MSPs code of conduct.
I missed they had put out a press release on Friday. apologies to Scotroutes
Perhaps defensible as they are allowed fair comment as individuals but perhaps not
Still not as bad as the tories and labour but pretty dull actions
Well well well
confidence vote on Sturgeon fails badly. tories the only ones voting for it and the actions of the tories loudly critised by labour and lib dems who abstained.
Ross and Davidson have badly overplayed their hands and look very foolish
Harvie
Mr Harvie says members of the inquiry committee pre-judged the evidence by making multiple pronouncements during the course of its work.
He says those MSPs had committed a "disgraceful betrayal of trust" of the original complainants, and that what should have been a serious inquiry had "descended into farce".
Rennie
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie says the women who complained have been "failed".
He adds: "When they stepped up we were not there for them."
Mr Rennie adds the Conservatives were "only interested in removing Nicola Sturgeon from office rather than the facts of this terrible series of events".
He continues: "They have undermined the integrity of the independent investigator."
Sarwar
Anas Sarwar cites the fact the Conservatives lodged the vote of no confidence on 4 March, before the Hamilton inquiry or the committee inquiry had concluded, as evidence of "an opposition guilty of playing grubby party politics on an issue as serious as sexual harassment".
"This is a day of shame for our parliament," he says.
"Scotland deserves a better government. And it deserves a better opposition."
The Scottish Labour leader says he accepts the conclusion of both inquiries but says nobody "has taken responsibility for the catastrophic failings by this government".
There are still "serious questions" for permanent secretary Leslie Evans and the first minister, he says, because "the buck ultimately stops with her".
It "cheapens" the parliament, he believes, for the government to attack the work of the committee, which risks "calling into question the verdict of every committee of this parliament ever".
As for the outcomes of the two investigations:
Sturgeon - damaged but not sunk. Showed clear lack of judgement in talking to Salmond on multiple occasions and getting party and parliamentary matters badly conflated. But she did not deliberately mislead holyrood nor did she lie. I personally accept her reasons for her mistakes but that does not excuse them and I don't expect everyone to agree
Salmond - all his conspiracy theories shown to be rubbish. Thats surely the end of him politically.
Tories - badly over played their hand and now look completely foolish still after Sturgeon to resign when her conduct while poor is nothing compared to everyday behaviour from tories at Westminster. I particularly loathe the way the kept on asking Sturgeon questions to which she could not and should not have known the answers in order to make her look shifty
Evans - her position is untenable and she must resign and if she does not then she must be sacked. Very interesting that Baillie and others shifted their focus to her not Sturgeon. I hope Sturgeon does not compound the errors she made by expending political capital on trying to save Evans
the conduct of the investigating committee stinks and no one bar Wrightman comes out of it well
However to me there are some positives in that it shows Holyrood have robust procedures to investigate such ballsups. Remember when Johnson was grilled under oath for 8 hours for lying to parliament? Me neither Remember when patel resigned for an admitted breach of the ministerial code? Me neither
A sorry and tawdry affair
Two people enhanced their reputations here. Harvie and Wrightman. Everyone else is diminished to one degree or another but I am pleased that Sarwar and Rennie recognized the poison from the tories and called them out on it
Evans – her position is untenable and she must resign and if she does not then she must be sacked.
How's that going?
Early days.
Its certainly a test and there are others in the civil service who also fell well short of the standard of behaviour required.
It will be interesting to see if Sturgeon expends political capital on trying to save her but I would not have expected her to go yet given the reports only came out so recently.
Ask me in a week or so.
Edit
If Sturgeon circles the wagons to protect Evans then its compounding her mistakes and will diminish her
So where are all the "Sturgeon must go" posters now?
So where are all the “Sturgeon must go” posters now?
There’s an advertising truck driving round the Grassmarket etc with “Nicola is a Liar” plastered all over it.
Who 🤔
So where are all the “Sturgeon must go” posters now?
Maybe they’re updating their banners to ‘Forres Gimp must go’ - Tories must be due a leadership change about now surely 😀
Maybe they’re updating their banners to ‘Forres Gimp must go’ – Tories must be due a leadership change about now surely 😀
They should do it on a rota, each MP leads the party a day a week with a day off on Sunday!
Thats a not unreasonable statement from Salmond. Good for him. I said much earlier he had to choose did he want vengeance with a scorched earth result or to simply see that those responsible for the errors are held responsible
I am glad he appears to have chosen the latter. there is no doubt that serious errors were made here by a variety of people and that needs to be dealt with.
With regard to Evans - she is also entitled to due process and that cannot be instant. What happens over the next few days will be telling. I don't think she is or should be the only one on a shoogly peg.
I hope it is the only legal action that I am required to take.
I would feel happier if we had a little mea culpa from Salmond - its been conspicuous by its absence.
Maybe I missed his apology?
So AS is letting the matter draw to a close by instructing his legal team to pursue a civil servant, thereby perpetuating the 'SNP Baaaad' media frenzy? Perhaps if 'Eck had kept his grubby paws to himself, none of what is now a whole series of shitshows would have been set in motion. He's as inadvertently useful to Unionism as Boris is to Nationalism.
Maybe I missed his apology?
He apologised to Ms A immediately after the event. The apology was accepted. She was offered an alternative post but she carried on working for him for several years.
A public acknowledgement he did wrong would be nice and would help repair the damage to his reputation.
he also apologised in private to 3 other women he groped did he not?
Private mediation for actions like this when there is such a huge power imbalance is not an acceptable way to deal with these sorts of issues in the workplace. If I had done at work what he has admitted to I would have been sacked and lost my registration - and quite rightly so. and thats just for the actions he has admitted to.
the real tragedy in all this to me is that if he had been slapped down properly years ago ( IIRC the first instances that have come to light are 2007) he might have altered his behaviour and avoided all this.
Scotroutes - do you really believe his action that he has admitted to are acceptable?
he also apologised in private to 3 other women he groped did he not?
What 3 would they be?
As per normal legal practice the names are not available but it came up in the inquiries that he had done so. IIRC ( and I cannot be bothered to check) at Edinburgh airport in 2017 and another incident in 2007?
Scotroutes – do you really believe his actions that he has admitted to are acceptable?
As per normal legal practice the names are not available but it came up in the inquiries that he had done so. IIRC ( and I cannot be bothered to check) at Edinburgh airport in 2017 and another incident in 2007?
Quite.