A bit of a rant here, but our two 17 year old daughters have just started to learn to drive, and some of the behaviour I have witnessed from other drivers has been unbelievable – overtaken (when we were slowing down and indicating right) on a narrow residential street, overtaken on solid white lines on the brow of a hill, aggressive driving, driving much too closely (one particular driver – who happens to be a near neighbour – came up behind us very quickly and sat right on our boot on a national speed limit). People turning right directly in front of us, leading to near full emergency stops. The list goes on. Is this a normal attitude to learner drivers because it is shocking – surely people should be thinking 'hey, they are inexperienced, probably quite nervous, I understand that they may not always drive perfectly so I will give them more room and be patient'? Unbelievable!
Just sounds like regular shit driving. Maybe you are more conscious of it being in the passenger seat next to the kids - I know I was
Dash cam. And use it to record and send off to the rozzers. You get 7 days to do it, it's great sport.
I think a lot of it stems from people assuming learners are younger people and can therefore be bullied on the road.
I have an L plate on my motorbike (done CBT and doing big bike test later in the year) and I'm 51.
I got horribly cut up when going into a garage the other day - turning in left, my right of way, BMW cut across me from the other side of the road without indicating 😠
Luckily I got on the brakes and avoided his passenger door.
When I got off the bike and took my helmet off, ready to have a proper go at him, he seemed properly taken aback that I wasn't a youngster...words to the effect of he thought a learner would be younger.
I still called him a ****-wit 😁
Sounds like learners get treated like cyclists.
Sounds like learners get treated like cyclists.
The similarity is the attitude that drivers must get in front of the learner/cyclist, even if they are travelling at the speed limit. I first noticed this when my girls were learning to drive, regularly being over taken on roads where I never get over taken despite travelling at similar speed.
It is really striking just how the sight of L plates brings out shocking behaviour from other drivers.
Unfortunately I have seen several cases of learner drivers being tailgated then overtaken in a narrow road because they were driving according to the speed limit or within the limit.
Also very often I saw people getting really annoyed when someone wanted to park at the road side parking space by slowing down and trying to reverse park but couldn't, because the car behind was driving simply too close to their rear let the other driver reverse park.
I think it is just the way people drive in the UK.
When I took my UK driving lessons (well I was already driving for at least 15 years in the far east) my driving instructor was rather happy with my alertness of other drivers around me. Well, I had to out of habit because in the far east if I didn't check my rear view mirror, a big lorry might just turn me into metal sandwich by rear ending me with knackered brakes.
Drivers in the UK are generally good but many are impatient especially towards learner drivers, bikers, cyclists and including me when I drive within the speed limit (FFS! The road is empty and if I wish to drive at 50mph in 70mph limit at night you don't have to drive behind me ... I have 1.6 litre engine and yours is only 1.2 litre and I can outrun you anytime)
People are increasingly selfish and impatient. I drive a lot with work and see it every day - thoroughly depressing.
Sounds like learners get treated like cyclists.
Yeah, I think there is quite a bit of that mentality – they are slow, so I need to overtake/get aggressive etc.
I mean, would you really overtake here (in a Citroen C3, so not exactly rocket-powered).
Sounds like learners get treated like cyclists.
One of the reasons I passed my test first time was because I'd done so much cycling so I was very used to how I would be treated on the roads - constantly being made to feel like I was in the way or just an annoyance to get past as soon as possible no matter what the road conditions might be like.
I remember both me and my instructor slamming the brakes on, full emergency stop scenario when someone pulled straight out of a side road in front of me. The instructor yelled a few obscenities at the other driver and then later on said "oh yeah, don't say any of that on your test!"
It's not just learners though. Try driving at 20mph in a 20 zone and see how irate the drivers behind get. You'll always have someone 6" from your rear bumper. Driving standards are generally abysmal and the sheer amount of tech and distraction in modern cars doesn't help either.
When you're on the receiving end of it, even more so when sat in the passenger seat with one of your kids driving it really sucks and there are some absolute bastards on the road who really want permanent bans.
But I still reckon there are many more kind, calm and sensible drivers than the knob heads. Sadly it's those that really stick in the memory.
It’s not just learner drivers unfortunately , just being on the same bit of tarmac at the wrong time is enough to set of some of the entitled wazzocks.
A case in point from the beeb today
BBC.CO.UK
The way i understand it, not being a tin box owner, is its all based on trust.
Trust that the guy in front isnt going to do anything untoward. He's going to potter along, mirroring the car in front, and not suddenly stop or turn or do anything each and every tin box owner has long practiced doing.
Learner drivers are like the loose cannon. They're unpredictable.
Or its maybe just some drivers are total ****ers, who arent chill enough to accept some people are new to the game.
Going back to the OP, when that idiot (the near-neighbour) was right up the back of our car, I waved my hand out of the window in a vain attempt at making them comprehend what they were doing, but they still sat there, all the way home, right up the back of the car. My daughter has forbidden me from speaking to them... To be fair, I have seen them since driving badly (when not instructing), so it is clearly their problem.
@Johndoh - sorry to hear that you're having alot of negative experiences on the road. I hope that it's not putting your daughters off driving.
At the risk of 'outing' myself as 'one of them' - I happen to be one of those people who enjoy driving for it's own sake, in the same way that I enjoy cycling for it's own sake, so I sincerely hope that your daughters can find similar experiences.
If I can offer a couple of thoughts, admittedly unsolicited on your part, so if they are unwelcome please feel free to disregard:
- Have you considered one of the advanced driver courses for your daughters or for yourself? Perhaps through IAM? I have done this course myself (and passed the test) and would comment that the term 'advanced' is a bit misleading, 'super safe' is probably a more suitable term. This may give you the confidence and skills to deal with some of the challenges which you (plural) are facing on the roads.
- For some additional instruction, Ashley Neal's YouTube channel offers some food for thought. Perhaps this video about dealing with a tail-gater is pertinent?
I absolutely feel your pain. You've basically described an alarmingly high proportion of drivers in Hampshire.
Currently teaching my son and there's a lot of people round here who drive aggressively, thoughtlessly and carelessly around learners.
Undertaken at high speed on Saturday morning doing 40 in 40 while preparing to join a right turn lane.
Tailgating, cutting in close in front (I mean for the love of your own bodywork just how thick do you have to be to cut up a Learner), overtaking on roundabout exits but not managing to keep the car in your own lane, barging.
If you have the impulse control of a toddler you don't belong behind the wheel.
(And by "you" here I mean the idiots not the OP). 🙂
Sounds like learners get treated like cyclists.
Sadly yes for both groups. My son is a roadie and a learner poor lad.
Try driving at 20mph in a 20 zone and see how irate the drivers behind get.
Any speed limit, coming home tonight I dropped to thirty in the thirty zone and some muppet in a beemer sat on my tail all the way home, I just stick to the limit, it's an ancient motor, if I had to brake suddenly it'd hurt them more than me!
But yes it's no fun on the roads, too many idiots.
The way i understand it, not being a tin box owner, is its all based on trust.
Sensible drivers accept that everyone else on the road could be a complete idiot and drive accordingly.
Many people turn into ****s when they get behind a wheel. This is hardly news to anyone who's ever used a road, especially a cyclist.
- Have you considered one of the advanced driver courses for your daughters
I think we need to get them to pass their standard tests first LOL! But they don't lack confidence, and neither have been put off driving – my post was about my observations, not their feelings.
L plates do seem to attract the attention of a certain kind of throbber, the kind who believe they shot out of their mothers fanny a fully formed driver themselves (did I get that through the swear filter?) My kids driving instructor had many tales of shocking behaviour from other motorists when driving himself between lessons, so it's definitely a thing. P plates have the same effect, my kids refused to use them once passed because they could become just another driver without the 'why don't you bully me' flag.
I assume they are the same people who think that incessantly and continuingly honking on their horn when they're stuck in stationary traffic will solve the problem.
i too am doing the learner driver thing and i did it 10yrs ago also - its pretty scary out there for learners.
to be fair she did a longer drive and most drivers on the main roads were OK. its the 'local' bits that brings out the worst in people.
i too am doing the learner driver thing and i did it 10yrs ago also - its pretty scary out there for learners.
to be fair she did a longer drive and most drivers on the main roads were OK. its the 'local' bits that brings out the worst in people.
Yeah my son ditched the P plates almost instantaneously, they did seem to attract dickheads.
When I'm in the van which doesn't accelerate particularly quickly (particularly when fully laden with bikes, kit, etc), I get people trying to get ahead and save themselves circa 15 seconds even when I'm driving at the speed limit.
At the end of the day dickheads are going to dickhead, you just need to be hypervigilant. It's almost good they learn this with an instructor in the car with them rather than being lulled into a false sense of security.
Why people stress themselves out trying to save seconds/minutes by risking an accident on a journey whilst in an air conditioned vehicle that has comfy seats and your choice of tunes I will never know.
Another one here. When my son put on P plates he seemed to become a target. They were removed within days.
Policing priorities are not on the roads ('cos war on motorists init) - therefore all sorts of stupid behaviour goes without action which reinforces the belief that it must be ok.
I didn't see too much L-specific angst but most of my kids instruction was in liveried dual control hire vehicles. If I was looking to find an "excuse" for generally not giving ordinary L plate drivers a wider berth it might be because there's so many people driving round with L-plates 24/7 who clearly aren't supervising a learner at the time. More cynically they might assume liveried vehicles are driving instructors with dash cams. Of course its ironic because if you are going to take your chances doing it when the car is likely well maintained, has two sets of eyes and two brake pedals seems a better plan than when the passenger has no direct control and hasn't been specifically trained to spot idiots!
See, it's not just cyclists having issues - the roads are where nobs can reach unfiltered levels of nobberdom.
All drivers should re-take a test of some sort periodically and re-do it as a basic requirement after a certain no. of points, or fault accidents etc. Driving as a privilege not a right - don't care what you shell out monthly on it or whether you need it for work etc it's your actions/decisions, your risk.
Sadly I think that would make very little difference. They would just do their "re-test" and then revert to driving like a knob again.
The only way is far more road policing and outright bans for repeat offenders.
Sadly I think that would make very little difference.
If you worked in heavy industry you'd be checked on safe operations basics once a year. Not checking is certain to let standards slip while reviewing with a stop for the worst drivers would improve things - the Q is by how much. Say it cost £100 every 7 years but you can need a re-test for basic offences, it could help. It's an incentive, or friction for those who think they know better. Tends to have an effect.
It's not just learners though. Try driving at 20mph in a 20 zone and see how irate the drivers behind get.
i was doing 23 in a 20 on Monday. Long stretch of road into London, few traffic lights or crossings, just a nice road. Of course I was on a bike. The driver yelled something out of the window about bus lane… i politely pointed to the big 20 painted on the road and left her at the next queue of cars.
I always give learners space and time when I am driving. Taught my two and know that we were all learners once. The best drivers never stop learning. I’d happily have a retest every 5-10 years. My son is retested every six months in his day job.
Sadly I think that would make very little difference. They would just do their "re-test" and then revert to driving like a knob again.
You're missing a main point about re-testing. That it's easier to stay compliant than it is to forget and re-learn.
I have worked in financial services and have trained out compliance for many years in a company where non-compliance was previously the norm. More frequent testing works as, once the initial shock is dealt with, standards rise. They're never perfect, and there's always someone winging it and getting away with it, but it does align folks with the standard.
Also, many young drivers have telematics policies so for a year or so they often are literally being monitored non-stop post-test. (I'm not saying this is an answer, but it's an interesting thought).
