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(you can tell us, everyone important already knows where you are as you paid by card)
I know where the other guy was, 'coz I licked a pound coin.
told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me
….and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.
Ah so no wonder there are so many conspiracy theories
Just to clarify, by accepting to pay with a phone you just confirmed you don't give a toss about invasion of your privacy.
If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?
What kind of reasoning is that? A quick look through history will reveal that a lot of people have been wrong about a lot of things for a long time.
As I tell my son, do you want to prove you are correct or be happy.
All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?
It does matter in this case. Because we live in a society, and we have a moral obligation (if you believe in morals) to conduct ourselves in a way that does not harm others unnecessarily. So people need to think about their power trip/patriotic glory fantasy and work out if it’s worth the risk, and what will happen if you’re wrong. And how important is it for you to feel good about your country when other people are struggling to eat or earn a living.
But of the 52% that voted for Brexit many said being poorer, not having food and breaking up the UK was a price worth paying. Others said it wouldn't happen ... they voted for a fantasy.
Many of the strongest Brexit votes were areas where people will be hit the hardest yet they still voted for it.
So the question really is do you want to be correct and people to starve and be homeless or be partially correct ?
I'd rather be wrong than correct.... I doubt I will be but hey ho... that's democracy.
But of the 52% that voted for Brexit many said being poorer, not having food and breaking up the UK was a price worth paying.
Many are saying it now but the numbers saying it at referendum time were vanishingly small. This is revisionism at it's finest, they insist they "knew what they were voting for" but the definition of this changes on a weekly basis.
Just to clarify, by accepting to pay with a phone you just confirmed you don’t give a toss about invasion of your privacy.
Is having someone know you were at a car park 'private' information? What if you passed someone you knew in the car park? I don't consider where I went on a Sunday to be private information for that reason.
As I tell my son, do you want to prove you are correct or be happy.
I don’t get how it’s a choice?
Son: The nice men who want to fix our country said that want to put our neighbours the Brunners on the train and give them a free shower? It seems wrong. I heard awful things.
Father: Yes son. I had my suspicions. Felix and Irma asked if they could hide in our cellar, but I’d prefer to be happy rather than proven correct. So we bought them some nice soap instead. Shall we wave them cheerybye?
Son: Are we happy now father?
Father: Yes, very happy, son.
Molgrips
Is having someone know you were at a car park ‘private’ information?
It's minor private information... by itself it's probably trivial
What if you passed someone you knew in the car park? I don’t consider where I went on a Sunday to be private information for that reason.
but if that same person wanted to see exactly what you bought, what internet you browsed... wouldn't you start to think it a bit worrysome? Perhaps on the way home you stop for fuel and buy a coffee... and again you don't mind....
I don’t get how it’s a choice?
Mum: You need to practice for your guitar lesson on Tuesday
Son: My guitar is on Monday
Mum: That's what I said
Son: No you said Tuesday
Mum: Don't tell me what I said
Son: but you said Tuesday
Mum: Right that's it no cycling this weekend
vs
Mum: You need to practice for your guitar lesson on Tuesday
Son: My guitar is on Monday
Mum: That's what I said
Son: OK
or
teacher: this is how sea stacks form
son: no its not
teacher: noone asked you shut up
son: but that's not how they form
..
homework: describe hoe sea stacks form
He took the smart option and wrote the incorrect answer that got marked correct
Sounds like a race to the bottom to me.
I took the red pill and the blue one; now I don't know who is mad.
homework: describe hoe sea stacks formHe took the smart option and wrote the incorrect answer that got marked correct
Are they formed with a hoe 😉 ?
Sorry - go on, give us the incorrect answer for a giggle.
Cougar
Many are saying it now but the numbers saying it at referendum time were vanishingly small. This is revisionism at it’s finest, they insist they “knew what they were voting for” but the definition of this changes on a weekly basis.
Sure but how is that different to say revisionism of a religion other than timescales?
Even timescales are probably not that different...I'm pretty sure in the weeks after the crucifixion for example stuff said to be fact changed weekly... then at larger intervals as time passed
It's not long ago people were being burned for heresy for things that are now accepted as fact.
Before that some got eaten by lions for being stubborn
Sure but how is that different to say revisionism of a religion other than timescales?
One is changing facts and the other a bunch of stories? Might as well argue over the origin story of Spider-Man at that rate.
I'm not really sure even what relevance that question has. If we answer "it's exactly the same" or "it's totally different," in either case is the next question not "so what?"
One is changing facts and the other a bunch of stories?
To you and me perhaps but others see them as facts.
I mean there is being stubborn and allowing you and your child to be ripped apart by wild animals..."in a sure and certain knowledge of a resurrection"
I'm pretty certain the NHS won't be seeing another £350M a week any time soon (until inflation makes that about Euro15) but I'm not so sure I'd let my son be ripped apart to prove the point.
Might as well argue over the origin story of Spider-Man at that rate.
Somewhere on t'interweb it's probably happening right now.
To you and me perhaps but others see them as facts.
The thing about facts, you see, is they are or they aren't. They do not require things like "belief," they are not at the whims of opinion. It doesn't matter what you or I may think. Even if you believe something really really hard it doesn't magically make it true, as much as the more gammony brexiters would like that to be the case.
As you said yourself, "I’m pretty sure in the weeks after the crucifixion for example stuff said to be fact changed weekly… then at larger intervals as time passed" so given that the very earliest scraps of documentation we have were written a century or two after the alleged event, how reliable would you hazard they are? Of course it could all be true, but it's a very long chalk from being a "fact."
Compare and contrast with the events of the last four years which every single poster and reader on this forum has lived through and has first-hand direct experience of.
I’m not so sure I’d let my son be ripped apart to prove the point.
Is this not a similar argument to saying you're not racist? Ie, it's not enough to not be racist, we should be striving to be anti-racist.
If you're not calling out bollocks then you're complicit in this fake news era, you become part of the problem. Lying on your homework is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things (I don't even know what a sea stack is so your kid is one up on me already) but at what point do you draw the line and make a stand? What if next week's homework is "how the holocaust never really happened"? Challenging people is how we, collectively, get smarter. I mean, this is literally how science works.
If it were me I'd be wanting to give the correct answer backed up with evidence and cited sources so they couldn't argue. But then as regular readers will know, I'm a contrary git. "Conform" be damned. Baaaa.
"and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower" - sorry to be pedantic, but shouldn't that be exactly half the population...?
You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn’t worked a day in his life.
Who’s the mad one?
The one with a poor grasp on how equitable carehome provision is 🙂
I think the coming years will take it's toll on people who are emotionally invested in being right on social media. It may slowly dawn on them, in reality, people aren't going to run everything by them first. Demanding answers to leading/closed questions of their framing won't yield the results they want.
The wannabe Brian Clough's are going to have a torrid time and should set aside plenty of time to win the battles!
I wonder if the film The Matrix wasn’t actually a Hollywood film but actually a documentary and its real.
Well, I recently saw an article on Flipboard which quite seriously posited the idea that there’s a ~50% chance that we’re living in a simulation...
How do we win against that?
We can’t, they’re the ones possessing the secret inside knowledge about How Things Work And Who Are The Ones In Control - actually it’s a confederation made up of alien lizard people and The Illuminati, with George Soros as a Dominic Cumming analog
The average person is a bit thick, and more than half of the population is of average intelligence
This needs unpacking. I'm of average intelligence so it's not going to be me to do it. Soz not soz.
“and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower” – sorry to be pedantic, but shouldn’t that be exactly half the population…?
No, you're excluding the median. You've got some average, some higher and some lower, so "average intelligence or lower" includes both the latter and the former.
Yes intelligence differs between people, as does the ability to question based on intelligence, think about whether something sounds right, do a bit of research/thinking yourself.
However, has the above dropped in the last 50 years or are people and governments just abusing it more?
People may not be mad, just not armed to deal with or dismiss what they are hearing/told probably mixed in with a bit of prejudice.
Cougar
in either case is the next question not “so what?”
The thing about facts, you see, is they are or they aren’t. They do not require things like “belief,” they are not at the whims of opinion. It doesn’t matter what you or I may think. Even if you believe something really really hard it doesn’t magically make it true, as much as the more gammony brexiters would like that to be the case.
Compare and contrast with the events of the last four years which every single poster and reader on this forum has lived through and has first-hand direct experience of.
It's a lot of perspective....
Take "control of our borders".
When the rest of Europe closed theirs we were inviting football fans from Spain on a piss-up in Manchester...
I'm sure that wasn't what the gammons imagined but yep "The UK stuck it to the man"... and that seems good enough for them.
I'm equally sure that when the Reesse-Moggs talk about control of the borders what they really mean is replacing jobs held by UK and Europeans with less expensive immigrants/migrants. Again, not what they imagined it to be ...
If you’re not calling out bollocks then you’re complicit in this fake news era, you become part of the problem. Lying on your homework is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things (I don’t even know what a sea stack is so your kid is one up on me already) but at what point do you draw the line and make a stand? What if next week’s homework is “how the holocaust never really happened”? Challenging people is how we, collectively, get smarter. I mean, this is literally how science works.
Well, how about history "We do not use BCE, BCE is used by people that don't believe in God"
He was truly shocked... he wanted to ask "so what if you're say Jewish" but he didn't.
If it were me I’d be wanting to give the correct answer backed up with evidence and cited sources so they couldn’t argue. But then as regular readers will know, I’m a contrary git. “Conform” be damned. Baaaa.
Me too but who's to say it makes us happier?
MR. HARRY BLACKITT: Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed
MRS. BLACKITT: What are we dear?
MR. BLACKITT: Protestant, and fiercely proud of it
MRS. BLACKITT: Hmm. Well, why do they have so many children?
MR. BLACKITT: Because... every time they have sexual intercourse, they have to have a baby
MRS. BLACKITT: But it's the same with us, Harry
MR. BLACKITT: What do you mean?
MRS. BLACKITT: Well, I mean, we've got two children, and we've had sexual intercourse twice
MR. BLACKITT: That's not the point. We could have it any time we wanted
MRS. BLACKITT: Really?
MR. BLACKITT: Oh, yes, and, what's more, because we don't believe in all that Papist claptrap, we can take precautions
MRS. BLACKITT: What, you mean... lock the door?
MR. BLACKITT: No, no. I mean, because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid- sixteenth century, we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue
MRS. BLACKITT: What d'you mean?
MR. BLACKITT: I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with you,...
MRS. BLACKITT: Oh, yes, Harry
MR. BLACKITT: ...and, by wearing a rubber sheath over my old feller, I could insure... that, when I came off, you would not be impregnated
MRS. BLACKITT: Ooh!
MR. BLACKITT: That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen- seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas,... [sniff] ...and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom! Oh, no! I can wear French Ticklers if I want
MRS. BLACKITT: You what?
MR. BLACKITT: French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress
MRS. BLACKITT: Have you got one?
MR. BLACKITT: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.'
MRS. BLACKITT: Well, why don't you?
MR. BLACKITT: But they-- Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien episcopal supremacy
The thing with "being in a car park not being private information" is that not quite directly how it works.
First it isn't governments using this information at the moment (although the strong suspicion is that some are gaming the system), it is commercial companies ie google and facebook.
So when you are placed in the car park, that information becomes part of the predictive model they are building of you, to keep you engaged on their products. If for example you happen to be placed at carparks outside cycle shops more that average, they can feed you content about cycling.
Now that sounds quite positive, but their algorithms show that negative content drives engagement more than positive, so a larger percentage of the content being fed to you will be negative than is being produced, a lot of positive content just will not be shown. More anti cycling rants, less epic wilderness backpacking trips.
The same principles will be applied to petreolheads, driving division and anger which is where subversive governments and populist politicians are taking advantage of the "free" system.
Now I love google maps etc as much as anyone and consider it an advantage in modern life, but I am uncomfortable about the information it gathers and how it could be potentially used. I would absolutely support legislation that sandboxes information for use within the restraints that it is gathered, ie google maps data stays within google maps and cannot be used for any other purposes, Or at least gave a reasonable subscription option that enforced that.
Well drafted sandbox laws could also benefit health research, raising public trust in anonymised mass data can be a good thing. It can be used for benefit but it should be controlled and not just left to the free market to decide,
poopscoop
What if all the things I think I’m right about,well, it turns out I’m just not.
Or maybe it's just that about half the population are below average intelligence and get their info from red-tops owned by right wing billionaires...
half the population are not reading the red tops, they are getting more targeted BS via Facebook and other social media sources.
It is not just lower intelligence - there are elements of racism, selfishness or just not having any empathy.
Lots of intelligent people are also being led down artificial information paths as well, dare I say that the arrogance and pride in thinking its just everyone else who is stupid and falls for it, actually makes you rather susceptible to misinformation. We all need to educate ourselves about how information is misused and protect ourselves from it.
@Molgrips
Sorry rushed answer I was going out riding (more on that later**) but ...
MSP
The thing with “being in a car park not being private information” is that not quite directly how it works.
Lots of intelligent people are also being led down artificial information paths as well, dare I say that the arrogance and pride in thinking its just everyone else who is stupid and falls for it, actually makes you rather susceptible to misinformation. We all need to educate ourselves about how information is misused and protect ourselves from it.
Now what I really wanted to say is that by agreeing to all this little "conveniences" you and I are saying it is OK to collect and use our data in any way possible.
MSP
Now that sounds quite positive, but their algorithms show that negative content drives engagement more than positive, so a larger percentage of the content being fed to you will be negative than is being produced, a lot of positive content just will not be shown. More anti cycling rants, less epic wilderness backpacking trips.
Now I love google maps etc as much as anyone and consider it an advantage in modern life, but I am uncomfortable about the information it gathers and how it could be potentially used.
So to paraphrase multiple ex-social media execs from "the Social Dilemma"
Who is paying ... ? Lets say advertisers or people who want to rig elections ... so what is the product? The answer (without getting even deeper) is WE are the product. We are what is being sold both our time/attention and ourselves as a revenue.
If you go even deeper.... then its suggested WE are not the actual product but changing our behaviour is the product. I've seen how its popular to blame racists and say "they were always racist" for example... but the reality is in many ways that making them racist was the product someone paid for.
So today I was at Hindhead and parked at the NT.
Technically I could have taken the membership but it's in the OH's car... so I go to pay....
No cash, No cards... phone a number or DL an app.
So with this thread in mind... I phone the number... to be told (sic) Please DL the app or the process of registration with this 3rd party company will take over 5 mins.
OK, I think... I'll DL it ... WTF
So... App store and DL on 1 bar to find out "This app will not work on your phone as it requires IOS something" ... my phone is on 12.4.8 anbd say's ""up to date" or last version for my iPhone 6 at least.
So call back and start registration on the phone to be told again to DL the app but I persist.
At exactly 5 mins my call is simply terminated....
So I see a ranger type guy talking to a lady...and amble over.... seems she has the exact same problem. Lucky he says "don't worry we won't be checking today"....
So WTF requires a later version of IOS than an iPhone6 will support? I mean they just need me to type a reg, stick a location code and pay? As a side note I wonder if the NT realise they have excluded people with "older" and "non really smart phones" (you know the sort we buy elderly relatives) and what's happening to all this extra info this "kind company" are collecting?
I think we ned to know 2 things
A. How the teacher thinks sea stacks are formed. And
2. What was the reason the old chap sans tin foil hat was parkimg in a public car park for 40p
Then we can judge his motives and madness unilaterally
So WTF requires a later version of IOS than an iPhone6 will support?
I know right? It won't work on my Commodore 64 either.
Could be all manner of reasons. Apple likely 'improved' an API this it uses, there's only so far an app can provide backwards support for and that's a six year old handset you've got there. Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn't contain, even.
It’s a lot of perspective….
That's the point I was making. A lot of this is about perception but that doesn't change facts, it just means they're wrong.
Well, how about history “We do not use BCE, BCE is used by people that don’t believe in God”
He was truly shocked… he wanted to ask “so what if you’re say Jewish” but he didn’t.
Honestly, (lockdown permitting) I'd be paying a visit to the school at this point. Your lad is being taught by a moron.
BCE has been in common use for centuries including, as you say, by Jewish scholars and its modern usage is intended to be inclusive. To say it's [exclusively] used by people who don't believe in god is flat out wrong. See my previous comment.
Me too but who’s to say it makes us happier?
No idea what makes you happier but I prefer thinking for myself.
Could be all manner of reasons. Apple likely ‘improved’ an API this it uses, there’s only so far an app can provide backwards support for and that’s a six year old handset you’ve got there.
Yep imagine if I didn't get new phones for no reason and I was still using my iPhone4... that still works perfectly well but can't get UK 4G (but could in America)
Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn’t contain, even.
Could be that it requires hardware that your phone doesn’t contain, even.
That would be even spookier ... not content with tracking everywhere I go to a few feet it requires "more" hardware to pay a parking charge?
Stop for a minute and think what is driving demand?
What exactly is it demands a pensioner needs to buy a new smartphone for every couple of years?
My mum (80) uses texts and sometimes email and has been known to use the Amazon App but she usually phones me and asks how to do it... that's about it. Usually tasking photos of the screen with her iPad to text me "how do I". she certainly couldn't tell you what iPhone or iPad she has..
I don't think my Mum is an atypical NT patron either... (or FC come to that, I pay for her annual parking at Gisburn Forest) judging by the people in the car park today. Other than a few yummy mummies in 4x4's and the three of us, Blake Sampson and the Ranger guy I didn't see anyone looked under 65. (and I'm not far off either and I'd guess the Ranger Guy also)
The idea I "need" a new phone whilst the old one still works is to me no different than I need a new bike because they changed the colourway or change my clothes because of whatever colour is in this autumn. It's endemic from white goods to cars to clothes... producing masses of waste and pollution.
No idea what makes you happier but I prefer thinking for myself.
Erm yep but that doesn't mean I need to think for a moron (actually self ignorant) person as well.
Your lad is being taught by a moron.
So it's 2 things ....
1) Belief
2) belief
It's very obviously incorrect factually... some Jews obviously believe in god and use BCE but fact doesn't matter because of reasons 1 and 2.
I’d be paying a visit to the school at this point.
Which would doubtless end with me calling someone a moron and being told I'm not respecting her religious beliefs.
Probably more to the point though to what end?
I'm sure my kid wasn't the only one thought "what a crock of shit" but ultimately its just one letter.
That’s the point I was making. A lot of this is about perception but that doesn’t change facts, it just means they’re wrong.
Yep but my experience (which is hard won) is you aren't going to change it but you can make yourself unhappier trying, especially when the person has 1 or 2.
Take the "control of borders" ... technically it's sort of correct but it's absolutely not what they believed it meant.
Take evolution and arguing for a missing link being well missing...
Take "flat earth" ... it's actually hilarious to even argue about the shape in 3 dimensions if you know maths and physics.
What's common about these 3? It doesn't matter how much EVIDENCE they made their mind up to be ignorant. Photo of earth from the moon "faked"... DNA "made by god".... "control of borders" (See Monty Python)
Ugh so why are (were) we letting in these Spanish football fans from a Covid epicentre?
Cos we can... noone can tell us (the UK) what to do....
Ugh but noone was telling us what to do....
The EU said we had to....
No they didn't
blah blah....
EU army ... bananas ..blah blah
"I've been mad for ****ing years, absolutely years, been
over the edge for yonks,
been working me buns off for bands...
I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...
very hard to explain why you're mad, even
if you're not mad..."
@cougar
Popped into my FB feed ... "Why facts don't change our mind"
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnyer.cm%2Fs4GTa3P%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1CyTyxce4Z3OUE_oaWIjzLKxtJRb4zaCAnrFNtROO0VN-0qyq3HS5maKo&h=AT0wyTrianPHG47GnFo-Rr9mWAR43VvLr0R2Jo7MxR20mZ3wuTH6L8zfCaAhjpC4AFzHnXhXw7zMKjilt8gonKg-Ytjph5hJPtLczSSlJMapfKbm5WgBjW_3RbY3yw-FfA&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c [0]=AT36fg56zpCA6b-KuC5nAfRZ7Q5jqCFY6rhogbWc_sXNQeDRByizHTVXpBoJ7Tb_4EtmoS1-ytRcOSZBnwzDbkO4YGdgGyKAxHhX2gaWrwAG_-0aVyipUVms3IOO1n5cS-KekZHsFm02yIb6T8ExUSip-R3QFW_LlRw0n4lseYQIpEG1CVzEmbLGbs1Eds7cjE3Qjgazx2NdzA
Here's that link in a less horrendous format.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
Yep imagine if I didn’t get new phones for no reason and I was still using my iPhone4… that still works perfectly well but can’t get UK 4G (but could in America)
Different countries use different systems and frequencies. That could easily be a hardware issue (I don't care sufficiently to google).
That would be even spookier … not content with tracking everywhere I go to a few feet it requires “more” hardware to pay a parking charge?
It might, for instance, require a physical security chip dedicated to handling the cryptography between you and the remote servers. I've no idea what Apple are putting in their phones.
Stop for a minute and think what is driving demand?
What exactly is it demands a pensioner needs to buy a new smartphone for every couple of years?
Whatever is driving demand, I'm fairly sure it's not pensioners. Maybe it's people expecting their six year old phone to do everything a modern one does?
It’s very obviously incorrect factually…
And this is coming from a teacher. What's their job, again?
Which would doubtless end with me calling someone a moron and being told I’m not respecting her religious beliefs.
You can respect her beliefs whilst challenging the fact she's wrong. I'd rather have thought you'd paraphrase the 'moron' bit a little more delicately.
Probably more to the point though to what end?
It's not just your child she's lying to.