[Closed] What if much of the world isn't completely mad and it is "you"?

Or it doesn't really matter what you do. Stuff will be much the same.

There are a LOT of people that would agree with every statement above. Is it me, am I the one not seeing the complete picture here?

Have a discussion with the people that would agree with every statement above and you will soon see what thinking (or lack of thinking) has led them to think like that.
You will then be better placed to know if you are mad or not.

Don't we all spend most of our lives trying to answer this question with our inner-monologue?

Questioning what we think and why we think it - I think I do. When it's an important subject I try to find the reason I think something, examine it for logic and sense and then wonder if that 'logic and sense' are just logic and sense because of my personal perspective.

Either way it's a tough question that can only be approached by sharing your thoughts with others and aggregating their opinion with your own before deciding if you are in fact right or not.

Good luck :o)

Bad analogy because.... Science - most of the revolt is just down to people not wanting to look at the facts and going down a rabbit hole of cause/causation. 2+2= 17200

A clearer analogy would be.

You work all the hours scrimp and save and put a nest egg asside for retirement.

You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn't worked a day in his life.

Who's the mad one?

*Also taking it away from being another covid thread where it's heading perrelously close to

Who was it who said "I thought they were mad, they thought I was mad, darn it if they didn't go and out vote me"

A clearer analogy would be.

You work all the hours scrimp and save and put a nest egg asside for retirement.

You end up in the same care home as bob who hasn’t worked a day in his life.

As analogies for ‘has the world gone mad’ - ^ That’s as ‘clear‘ as mud!

our inner-monologue?

You mean The Voices, right?

Perhaps the ultimate madness is never to at least question if I am mad?

I always try and make an argument for the 'other side' just to see if I can make it stack up.
Sometimes it's pretty confusing as you start to follow lines of reasoning (Climate change being a natural cycle caused by sun spots, etc lead me down some interesting paths), but mostly you end up better prepared to support the position you had in the first place.

I'm as daft as a box of frogs and i've made my peace with that.

Just live your own reality.

With your Brexit question we will have the answer soon enough. Already you can see that a lot of the objections people raised at the start have turned out to be quite on the money (vast armies of border inspectors, how Brexit will work with the Good Friday agreement and so-on). And other problems that no-one even anticipated such as the Kent exclusion zone.

So - this illuminates how to answer your questions. Make a testable hypothesis. If you can't test it, it's just a belief.

So mask wearing - how could we find out if it makes a difference?

Oh, and politicizing this (as Trump has deliberately done for example) means you can't have a rational debate. It's pretty irresponsible in my opinion. Even if he's right about masks, he's wrong about the way he's gone about it (and a whole lot more).

Don't worry about madness... or not.

Follow the evidence, you know like actual evidence not stories and lies you can easily drive a bus through, avoid the usual logical fallacies, and see where it leads you.

That may very well be a different place to 'the masses'.

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

It certainly is and that is largely because it is people who do ask the right questions rather than just listening to what someone like Farage tells them.

Or it doesn’t really matter what you do. Stuff will be much the same.

In a very German manner

Bottom line is that people work on emotion. They think things that they like thinking, because they crave dopamine. This is true of EVERYONE, you and I included. However, thinking of yourself as being wrong or having been wrong is a downer so they make up all sorts of mental leaps to justify whatever position they previously held, even if it were wrong. They just believe what they like believing.

So in the case of Brexit, they LIKE the idea that their country is powerful and important. The papers played to that, pitting the UK against its allies in the EU, because people buy papers that contain things that make them feel good. So they feel good about Brexit, and they cherry pick the articles that allow them to justify that because they don't want to be wrong.

Me, I place value in rational analysis and understanding, that's where I get my dopamine hit. Or rather one of the places I get it - another is feeling together with my allies. So naturally, that leads me to being pro Brexit for obvious reasons.

Likewise, some people don't want to think bad of the prime minister because it's a downer to think that we have a moron in charge. Unless you've already decided you don't like him, in which case complaining about him reduces the downer you feel from him being in charge.

It is you for sure, am me, and a lot of other people.
It’s the black and white thinking that is the problem I rekon- nhs sink or swim- what if they just managed to stay afloat-
maybe bojo (**** btw) is doing a ok job - not utterly shit but not amazing either.

We seem to make up our minds and then find the information to back up our views- easy with Covid because even similarly qualified scientist can’t agree.

@701arvn good to see clever sounding people validating the ideas I came up with as a student 🙂

I wonder if the film The Matrix wasn't actually a Hollywood film but actually a documentary and its real.

Why do you think I drink through this crazy straw? Not so mad now am I.

As analogies for ‘has the world gone mad’ – ^ That’s as ‘clear‘ as mud!

well yes -when you use partial quotes it tends to have that effect.

My point being hes correlating that people who are not following the science and making shit up might not be the mad ones.

that in its self is madness -

Try something tangible where there are two clear non fictional paths rather than a science based argument vs fictional arguement.

molgrips

Me, I place value in rational analysis and understanding, that’s where I get my dopamine hit. Or rather one of the places I get it – another is feeling together with my allies. So naturally, that leads me to being pro Brexit for obvious reasons.

Just wondering if the 5th from last word is the one you intended? Not judging if it is, just interested.

Perhaps BJ honestly is doing the best he can for the country in tackling Covid?

Just to highlight one point, Is Boris doing the best he can for the Country?

IMHO It's probably more nuanced than a simple Yes or No, but is he doing the best HE can do, the answer is probably yes. I very much doubt he's part of some global conspiracy to enslave us, or he's actively trying to kill as many people as possible to try to save the economy.

If you asked an ITU Doctor, they'd probably say no. Faced with an endless stream of suffering and death and with a lifetime of medical knowledge to hand their onus will be entirely on the real world medical issues. They may think the only course of action would be to enforce a very strict lockdown until we can test a vaccine at a normal pace or at least until Spring.

If you ask an Economist, they'd also say no, the constant change in plans and restrictions is causing businesses a lot of pain at the worst time for the UK. They will likely call for a pretty 'nasty' solution that accepts more deaths and less people being treated who potentially could survive covid otherwise to help the economy.

And the list goes on, a mental health expert will no doubt be focus on the high level of stress in the UK at the moment, Social Workers will want more financial support for people etc etc etc.

The Government and their advisers have to balance all that information to try to come up with a strategy that does the least harm, and we should never forget that there isn't a road map for this. This is a new and unique problem facing the world.

Is he doing a good job over-all? I think he's doing okay, but really Covid needs exceptional leadership and he's not that. His biggest failing seems to be he's lead by emotion and is unwilling to accept inconvenient projections until they happen. New Zealand and China are probably the standard on which all others will be judged. They both acted decisively and 'went hard'. The rest of the world including BJ said the cost of their actions was too high, but as the concept of costs have shifted, it seems theirs will be a very small one.

I think we'd doing about on-par with the rest of Europe, other countries have been hailed at being the 'gold standard' for Covid at various times, but in others they've suffered terribly. Belgium is doing about worst at the moment.

But, he's doing a lot better than any Twitter 'expert' or right-wing blow-hard who thinks it's all just "common sense" would do.

Yes, because most of us (here on STW) are probably in the minority on most issues when compared to the global population.

The main question is if it is possible to have one single worldview that is "right", and the more important question is whether it matters to the cold, dead, incomprehensively massive universe.

Also, can some please stop the simulator - I want to get off.

Is he doing a good job over-all?

No, absolutely not. Not even because of the quality of the decisions he's making or not making but because he's fundamentally failing in his primary role as the leader of the country.
The prime minister needs to look like he knows what he's doing and project that reassurance to the country and he's just not doing that.

Contrast his handling with that of Nicola Sturgeon. They're making fundamntally the same decisions at roughly the same time but, pretty much every day since March, Nicola Sturgeon has appeared on TV at lunchtime and consistently briefed the country on what is currently happening and has openly answered questions and provided reassurance that they're doing the best, based on the information to hand, which she has complete and comprehensive knowledge of because she'e read and digested her brief.
Boris appears only briefly and occasionally when he can't realistically send some other meat puppet to do it for him and always appears ill informed and provides vague and often contradictory information. Any hard information is usually leaked by a "government source" befeore he tells us anything.

Ignoring the politics or the actual decisions made...it's about reassurance and informing the public, projection of competence and appearing to be a leader.

Boris is utter shite at it. He's not doing a good job.

Perchy are you broken ? You don't normally talk as much sense and truths 🙂

Not broken.

Slightly cracked perhaps 😉

Seems that OP is engaging in a form of ‘auto-gaslighting’?

ie imagine if you lived in a country where the majority believed in a flat Earth.

You may then wish to ‘smooth’ and quiet your brain down by instead ‘choosing‘ to believe (say) that flat-earthers may be right after all, and that you’re the ‘mad’ one.

But flat-earthers assumedly number currently less per population than Brexiteers and Trumpists (there are of course overlaps and correlations) ... so you still feel on ‘safe’ ground. Not because the facts and evidence and science support your position, but because you don’t feel like ‘the odd one out’. Like the sore thumb.

*edit:

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/unlearning-self-gaslighting

Molgrips

Bottom line is that people work on emotion. They think things that they like thinking, because they crave dopamine. This is true of EVERYONE, you and I included. However, thinking of yourself as being wrong or having been wrong is a downer so they make up all sorts of mental leaps to justify whatever position they previously held, even if it were wrong. They just believe what they like believing.

So in the case of Brexit, they LIKE the idea that their country is powerful and important. The papers played to that, pitting the UK against its allies in the EU, because people buy papers that contain things that make them feel good. So they feel good about Brexit, and they cherry pick the articles that allow them to justify that because they don’t want to be wrong.

But maybe that is sane?
If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?
All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?

Go and watch the social dilemma, it really explains a lot of how people are fed information today, they (the media) don't care about its accuracy as long as it keeps you online and watching adverts.

Last week I was paying to park my car using an app. Foolish, yes, cause it costs me an extra 40p, but whatever, I did it. A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. And that we must fight to ensure Brexit happens before a vaccination program begins because the we can move beyond Covid. And that the bible foretold this. If that's sanity then I feel better off mad, and for the avoidance of doubt, it's not sanity. It's ridiculous, sometimes dangerous, nonsense. CSB!

It's all about perspective.

I may think that the people who voted for Boris are all mad but then most of them will think me mad for not voting for him. Same with little things too like I eat cereal dry as I don't like the way wet cereal feels in my mouth or that I will happily go out in the wet and ride my bikes round a trail. We all presume our view is the right one unless we actively go looking to challenge it and see if it stands up to scrutiny. The mad people are the ones who don't do that IMO.

Saying all that my default position is that I'm the mad one as I do so many things that aren't the social normal!

I've just been arguing on twitter about PCR tests, he's telling me all about how it's a deep fake, leftist conspiracy theory, Wikipedia is too,
I've spent the last 20 years doing PCRs and sequencing, and this guy who's obviously never picked up a pipette in his life apparently knows more than me.

How do we win against that?

There are a LOT of people that would agree with every statement above.

The thing you have to remember is,

The average person is a bit thick, and more than half of the population is of average intelligence or lower. Once you accept that you're surrounded by ****ing morons and moron apologists, the world becomes much easier to understand. It's a bit like driving / cycling on the road and defaulting to assuming that everyone else is out to kill you.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me.

....and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.

It’s all about perspective.

It's all about numbers. "Normal" is simply going with the majority. If ginger kids made up 90% of the population no-one would be picking on them at school; if most of us were born short-sighted then ol' Specless Two-Eyes would be getting a kicking.

I was raised to believe that being 'normal' was something to reject, that you should celebrate standing out and being different rather than following the herd. Which probably isn't normal. QED.

If 52% of people think like that then maybe there is something in it?

What kind of reasoning is that? A quick look through history will reveal that a lot of people have been wrong about a lot of things for a long time.

All a bit matrix and is the steak real and does it really matter?

It does matter in this case. Because we live in a society, and we have a moral obligation (if you believe in morals) to conduct ourselves in a way that does not harm others unnecessarily. So people need to think about their power trip/patriotic glory fantasy and work out if it's worth the risk, and what will happen if you're wrong. And how important is it for you to feel good about your country when other people are struggling to eat or earn a living.

….and yet he was driving in a car with a registration number, registered with the actual goverment whose database of both vehicles and owners is connected to a national network of ANPR cameras.

And think of all the collective DNA on those coins!

I would like to state for the record, that I have never, not even once, jerked off into a parking machine change collector.

Now, I think it's about time I logged into LinkedIn

I find this forum is generally quite good at poking holes in rubbish arguments.

It certainly is and that is largely because it is people who do ask the right questions

I fear that somewhere on a forum called something like RightWingBigotTrackworld someone will be saying exactly the same things.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. .... If that’s sanity then I feel better off mad,

He was doing the sensible thing (paying 40p less) for non-sensible reasons. Were you doing the non-sensible thing (paying 40p more) for sensible reasons?

I think that tells me something very profound, but I can't work out what.

Yes, having the "right" answer does not guarantee your chain of reasoning is/was also right.

But, conversely, having a sound chain of reasoning is a guarantee your answer is far more likely to be "right".

Don't start with the answer, get attached to it, and make up some false reasoning.

Nature doesn't care about emotions.

CAN WE HAVE THE REAL PERCHY BACK SOON?
as much as what he wrote makes perfect sense,it feels wrong
come back all is forgiven apart from being a QS of course

Everything I say always make sense.

To me at least.

A (normal looking) man paying (40p less!) for his parking with coins told me that by paying with my phone I was allowing the world government to track me. And that their control of me would only increase after vaccination for Covid because the vaccine has a nano tracking gel in it which means they will know my every thought and deed. …. If that’s sanity then I feel better off mad,

I'm more disgusted that somewhere feels they can charge card users more than cash users in 2020.
Where was it? (you can tell us, everyone important already knows where you are as you paid by card)