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Most voters intentions are based on a broad opinion of the best government for the nation as a whole, not self-serving obsession.
Amusing.
Since when did the Conservatives (or any party, for that matter) serve the interests of the majority of the electorate?
People are duped into voting on the basis of false promises and nice things. Most people rarely get a great return for their vote.
The ConservativeParty is an elitist party, always has been, probably always will be. The only section of society to ever really benefit in any significant way, from a Tory government being in power, are the wealthy elite. The rest are thrown scraps, to placate them. Sad thing is, too many people can't see past low interest rates, or cheap goods, to see the bigger picture. do you really think Cameron and his Chums really give a flying fig about people in housing estates in Blackburn or wherever? Course they don't! They're only interested in serving their own greedy selfish interests, let's be honest. The irony is, such folk might vote Tory because of what they (mis)believe the benefits will bring them. Mind you, Labour aren't much better, nor the Limp Dems (Nice one Kimbers). A sad sorry shower of shite the lot of them.
Is it time for a Swingometer yet?
Most voters intentions are based on a broad opinion of the best government for the nation as a whole, not self-serving obsession.
Ha ha! 😆
Very good!
Is there really any difference between the selfishness of MPs from any party? Some get into trouble for dodgyness whilst msot IMO are basically there to try and improve society. They just have different ways of going about it and often of what's most important.
The only section of society to ever really benefit in any significant way, from a Tory government being in power, are the wealthy elite
what rubbish.
do you really think Cameron and his Chums really give a flying fig about people in housing estates in Blackburn or wherever?
so you think IDS has just been swanning around the estates for fun these last 5 years then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Social_Justice
yep. that looks like the actions of someone who doesnt give a flying fig.
as I said above if you're going to go around patronising another party's voters you'd better realise you're insulting a lot of people. Probably members of your own family and friends. Bet you feel the big man.
IDS ?
Irritable Dave Syndrome
its like IBS only quieter.
Stoner
Of course the tories only act for the wealthy - that is their aim. Remember "trickledown"? The party of wealth and privilege.
I am sure IDS means well but nothing the tories have ever done improves the lot of the poorest people - infact the reverse is true and will be again if they get in again.
Cuts in public services - who uses them most - the poor.
You are the one being insulting - with your patronising attitude. Some of us can see thru the cant and bullshine of your beloved tories.
[img] 
?w=405&h=362[/img]
every time i see that picture i want to kill a kitten
If they're so concerned about social justice over bankers getting richer - why kill that bill I linked to earlier?
TJ, what's that picture meant to prove?
that i occasionally want to kill kittens ?
The problems of the sink estates are a direct result of the policies of the last Tory government. apparently their impoverishment was a price worth paying - and we are still paying now. Although thing haavce slowly improved since 97.
as I said above if you're going to go around patronising another party's voters you'd better realise you're insulting a lot of people. Probably members of your own family and friends. Bet you feel the big man.
Miaow...
Molgrips - that the tory party are the party of entrenched wealth and privilege.
so you think IDS has just been swanning around the estates for fun these last 5 years then?
Ah, IDS and the "Centre for Social Justice"...one of the greatest piles of stinking tory tokenistic (that's never a word is it?) shite in recent years. It's quite a worry that some of the ideas and reports it's published might actually be used in legislation in the near future. It's a 21st century "Back to Basics". You only have to read the list of publications e.g. "Why The Government is Anti Marriage" (yawn). The "quiet man" had to be bundled off to do something for fear of getting a whiff of leadership again. The fact that Frank Field (a parachute-pete) who I believe once described she who shall not be named as some kind of "hero" has involved himself with the "Centre for Social Justice" says it all for me.
Molgrips - that the tory party are the party of entrenched wealth and privilege.
Quite right, you'd never get Labour MPs coming from priveliged public school backgrounds.
The fact that I secretly fancy Frank Fields says it all for you too 😉
good grief trailmonkey - you cant possibly mean this lot can you?
* Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
* Hugh Bayley (City of York)
* Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
* Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
* Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
* Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
* Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
* Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
* Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
* Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
* Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
* Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
* Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
* Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
* Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
* Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
* Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
* Peter Hain (Neath)
* Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
* Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
* Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
* John Healey (Wentworth)
* Margaret Hodge (Barking)
* Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
* Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
* Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
* Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
* Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
* Jim Knight (South Dorset)
* Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
* Martin Linton (Battersea)
* Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
* Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
* Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
* Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
* John Mann (Bassetlaw)
* Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
* Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
* Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
* Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
* Chris Mole (Ipswich)
* Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
* Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
* Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
* Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
* James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
* Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
* Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
* Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
* John Spellar (Warley)
* Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
* Howard Stoate (Dartford)
* Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
* Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
* Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
* Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
* Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
* Michael Wills (Swindon North)
* Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
* Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)
Molgrips - that the tory party are the party of entrenched wealth and privilege.
I just see blokes in costumes.
And as trailmonkey pointed out.. Labour pollies are almost as priviliged. What's your point?
So what %age of the population are wealthy and privileged?
So what %age of the population are wealthy and privileged?
all of them to the one just above me or to the one just below me, depending on your politics, naturally.
😯
[img] http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CLCGguXpu7__WxCsAhjvATIIaWdO27C-o9o [/img]
See! They're watching us!!!!
Come on Stoner - let's keep it on topic
Landmark legislation that the Tories have introduced in the last 100 years We've had quite an extensive Labour list, how about a similar Tory one?
Molgrips - perhaps then you should look into it to see what these people are about if you don't understand the difference. This is a very small elite that control the vast majority of the counties wealth.
You patronising arse TJ.
My point was that you are being anti-tory because of their backgrounds, (apparently) not because of what their policies are or how they think.
I am anti-tory because of the last two 🙂
and while we're in here, TJ, I would value your critique of this piece by Fraser Nelson:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5885398/why-we-shouldnt-confuse-poverty-with-inequality.thtml
I have a lot of time for Fraser Nelson, although the Speccy can get a bit too Daily Mail for me much of the time, he is a very lucid, analytical tory.
What's your view on equality and poverty? One and the same issue or not?
I like the naievity of those that think that the so called wealthy and priveliged will only flourish under one party or the other..............
almost as much as the naievity of those that think that the so called poor and under priveliged will only suffer under one party or the other
sorry uplink. you're quite right.
Im off for a bit for work but if it's a quiet night on TV tonight I may well be back...
Labour must have been good for the poor and under privileged - there are loads of them now.
Stoner, you're doing a lot of cut, copy and pasting today fella. You're lightning with a mouse...I can't believe you'd have typed all those that quickly.
Now, you know me, I'd never judge someone on their education (mind you, you must be pleased with a Cambridge double over Oxford...the boat race [i][b]and[/b][/i] University Challenge) 😉 It's very rarely up to the person which school he or she attends (many would say even university destination are largely decided by one's parents & secondary school), and if one attends a "good" school, it's more likely that one will then attend Oxbridge, Durham, St. Andrews etc (and the other top strata Universities, but I'm not acquainted).
But how would you equate how the decision which party one then joins?
EDIT: And I too have strayed wildly off topic...apologies
I would say (and it's only opinion mind, don't go chewing my head off, as I'm off down to the rowing club to do a bit of social climbing after this post, so will be defenseless) that if one decides to join the Labour Party or Lib Dems, then one at least started out with more of a sense of social justice and caring about those less fortunate than if one joins the tories. Of course, power will inevitably corrupt some, whichever party they join...
There must be loads of big issue, social legislation that the Tories have introduced.
I just can't for the life of me think of any - can anyone?
And as trailmonkey pointed out.. Labour pollies are almost as priviliged. What's your point?
With the emphasis on "almost". The point being that the likes of the possible future PM and Chancellor come from a even Higher education(wealthy-exclusive/priviliged)than those on that list.
It's not a surprise that so many Labour MP's have come from that educational background, they are the party of the middleclass after all.
Labour must have been good for the poor and under privileged - there are loads of them now.
Like with most of their policies, they inherited them from the previous Government.
Interesting piece stoner. The two are linked but not the same clearly. Also poverty can be absolute or relative. A basic bias in that piece tho. Inequality does matter greatly - but poverty matters far more.
Molgrips - you asked the question of what the picture meant. I answered it. Its important to remember where people come from socially as it colours their views and biases.
deadlydarcy - i think you theory only applies to conviction politicians not career ones, thus its's largely a dud.
uplink - MemberThere must be loads of big issue, social legislation that the Tories have introduced.
I just can't for the life of me think of any - can anyone?
council house sales? changed the social and political landscape irrevocably. For the worse IMO
Maastrict treaty. Biggest pooling of sovereignty ever
uplink - without looking Im not that sure we should see much grand social legislation from the conservatives. The conservative philosophy has always been one of the small state. It is in the ethos of the party. In fact it would be proof of their success if you couldnt find any! (now that means you had better go off hunting! 😉 )
as the Fraser Nelson piece alludes to, labour measure their success on the [i]intent[/i] of their bills, not the output.
got to go now.
i think you theory only applies to conviction politicians not career ones, thus its's largely a dud.
I know what you mean tm.
Conviction politicians are the only ones I'm interested in...be they blue, red, gold or green. I'd rather sit down and have a pint with Norman Tebbit than Frank Field. (but both conversations would end in fisticuffs I think)
well it was lawson who first came up with the idea of pension holidays for businesses
thats a big social issue thats affected most of us
uplink - without looking Im not that sure we should see much grand social legislation from the conservatives. The conservative philosophy has always been one of the small state. It is in the ethos of the party. In fact it would be proof of their success if you couldnt find any!
Easy to find the small state mentality . Privatisation. What a success for the shareholder that was.
And what a total F*ck up for the UK.
New Layabout:
Countryside Rights of Way Act of England and Wales (unfortunately restricted to pedestrians)
Scottish Devolution (As a Sassanach I agree wholeheartedly with this one and would probably support further separation if a majority of Scots supported it)
Finally some investment in public services, but overcooked it a bit!
Tory:
Channel Tunnel?
Reduction of national debt
Yuppies
buzzlightyear i think youll find the reduction of national debt was about the oil boom arather than any amazing financial cunning
and it was the previous labour government who did all the hard work getting the americans to come here and get the north sea 'online'
Just listened to Nick Clegg's opening gambit
He refers to the "mistakes" & the disaster of the last 60 years under the big 2 parties
I dunno, given we were a totally broken country [in every sense of the word]at the end of the last war, we've done OK IMO
He's maybe been on another planet
TJ;For a man who likes to make a little dig at Christians,you have more blind faith than any I know.I look forward to WHEN labour lose (with your beloved all-party-to-all-men coming last).Perhaps you will leave the UK as a protest.
I don't. As shit as Labour are, the prospect of having the most inept bunch of Old Etonians ever fills me with dread.
CallMeDave can't even lock his bike up properly, ffs. 🙁