A guy at work claims to have never received any vaccinations, not even a tetanus. He also claims to never have been I'll.
WTAF!
@tpbiker absolutely. Ultimately it's been about power and money, but religion is the vehicle.
You’re conflating life threatening choices with non-life threatening choices?
You conflated legal with illegal earlier on with TJs drunk driver analogy.
I'd imagine a lot of folks who ain't up fir being jagged could potentially have anxiety or other mental health issues, it's not really a stretch to think so, is it?. So, mibbe not the nicest thing to say, eejits, stupid etc....
I'd keep my nose out as its none of my business
No beer - I don't care what their reasons are - I am not having anti vax idiots ( and thats what they are) putting me in danger.
they have the choice not to have it, I have the choice to make sure their stupidity does not put me in danger
rushed through the trials and inevitably some corners will have been cut in the process
Have a listen to that podcast with the people who developed one of the vaccines. To be honest, I now have more sympathy with the “microchip” people
So why does it normally take so long then? Obviously something has been fastracked somewhere and that means corners being cut otherwise all vaccines would be made in less than a year, they dont delay the others just for the sake of it.
Just to be clear, i u derstand why they have done tbis way this time and agree with it (i have had one dose of pfizer and am due another shortly) However, to say that tje long yerm effects have been as well tested as vaccines which have been around for donkeys years is clearly not true.
A covid jab is proba ly more risky than a tetanus jab but not as risky as getting covid
andrew
Its merely a modification of other vaccines / produced using the same methods and its had far far more effort put into it than anything comparable hence being created quickly
You've no idea the amount of validation etc that goes in, even at the basic manufacturing level. We make a pretty basic antibiotic, it's been about for decades, but all those standards have to be met, so much documentation that goes through loadss of different depts and regulators, auditors etc.
The effort to push through was quite incredible.
Our own vaccination wasnt ready to be used, and looks like it'll be delayed til autumn. If it was as easy as some suggest, and corners cut, that wouldn't have been kicked back.
And I'm just an engineer pleb in the big cog! What do I know?! 🤣
So why does it normally take so long then? Obviously something has been fastracked somewhere and that means corners being cut otherwise all vaccines would be made in less than a year, they dont delay the others just for the sake of it.
Some very knowledgeable people have answered this question on this very thread at least half a dozen times. Maybe just go back & read it. Alternatively: TLDR. The vaccines have had virtually unlimited resources thrown at them, and stuff that gets done in sequence has been done in parallel.
Thanks StW you've been as helpful as ever.
Once 90%(ish) of the population are vaccinated the disease will probably disappear
Just like the flu!....oh, ..wait
Say what??? There have been numerous cases of religious genocide and persecution in the past decade or 2.
In the UK?
You conflated legal with illegal earlier on with TJs drunk driver analogy.
No, I suggested that one risky thing wasn't as disparate from another risky thing as you seem to be insinuating. Not sure what legality has to do with anything here.
So why does it normally take so long then?
Because we're not 'normally' crisis-managing a global emergency situation and resources are finite.
to say that tje long yerm effects have been as well tested as vaccines which have been around for donkeys years is clearly not true.
Is it? It might feel that way but it's not 'clearly' anything of the sort.
If you and your friendship group agree on everything on threat of expulsion I’d just call it what it is, grab some Koolaid and have a party.
It does get a bit Wild Wild Country sometimes but I'm ok with that 🤪
Just like the flu!….oh, ..wait
There is no such thing as "the" flu and nothing even remotely approaching 90% of the population has ever been vaccinated against any of the influenza strains.
Just like Smallpox. Oh, wait.
Just like Polio. Oh, wait.
Just like Measles. Oh, Andrew Wakefield.
To the OP it wouldn't bother me. But if it bothers you say.
How sure is she about Covid? She’s not going to get pregnant if she’s dead
Not much risk of dying to a healthy woman in her 30s is there?
My BIL is anti vax, his reasons are that big pharma are getting rich out of it & Boris & his mates will be making a fortune. He mentioned the blood clot thing but this holds little value as he’s a fairly frequent long haul flier. My wife has told him that if he’s ever hospitalised with COVID he’ll have an injection every day to reduce the chance of blood clots.
I despair.
Some very knowledgeable people have answered this question on this very thread at least half a dozen times. Maybe just go back & read it. Alternatively: TLDR. The vaccines have had virtually unlimited resources thrown at them, and stuff that gets done in sequence has been done in parallel.
Not on this thread but on the main CV19 thread.
Most of the delays in trialling medicines are down to resource; identifying people to take part in trials (virtually unlimited candidates here); time taken by people to analyse data (everyone stop what they're doing and come and help with this); time taken by regulators to review the submissions (put this one to the front of the queue and everyone work on it)
As someone said earlier, if it takes a man a day to dig a hole, if they put two people on it and dig it in 1/2 a day, is the hole no longer a hole?
Your friend is in one of the very hard to reach groups. We have done two things:
- lead by peer example, then give people time to come around.
- remind people that vaccinations are about protecting others not the individual. Basically you’re a selfish arse freeloading on others if you don’t get vaccinated. Just using nicer language. So far only one of my guys hasn’t got vaccinated.
I’m of the opinion that the stick we now need is: no vaccine, no pub, no cafes, no buying booze (yes I realise what this last one will lead to).
What do you do when your best mate is anti Vax?
Bin him or her off. Why waste time on selfish twunts?
Is he Anti Vax or is he just anti this vaccine?
It’s easy to see why so many people are choosing not to have this. It’s easy to believe they are all tin foil hat wearing nutters or just selfish but away from the conspiracy nuts there are rather a lot of very well respected and highly qualified scientists, doctors and epidemiologists that are against the vaccine.
Mix this with the adverse affects and you get resistance. Personally to date I know of 3 people that have suffered adverse effects, a friend suffered nerve damage immediately post second jab and still can’t work, a guy I know blacked out after first jab and had to be hospitalised and a friends 16 year old daughter has not had a period for 7 weeks since second jab.
I think the thing really causing the most reluctance now though is people getting ill despite a double jab. For example I read this week that in Bradford Royal Infirmary half the Covid patients are already jabbed.
So you can start to see that the decisions people are making does not necessarily make them “idiots” or lesser beings to the rest of us. Perhaps they are simply making an informed choice.
It’s easy to see why so many people are choosing not to have this.
It's really not.
Perhaps they are simply making an informed choice.
No, they're really not.
Their choice to make though.
but away from the conspiracy nuts there are rather a lot of very well respected and highly qualified scientists, doctors and epidemiologists that are against the vaccine.
There are?🤔
Crikey..I'm as pro vax as they come and think those that don't get a jab are absolute idiots, but I can't believe so many folks would bin off their best mate if they didn't get it! Maybe you don't value your mates as much as me, but my best mate I've known since I was 3 and I'd literally take a bullet for him. Id certainly not cut him off because he didn't get jabbed.
friends 16 year old daughter has not had a period for 7 weeks since second jab.
Are 16 year olds even offered the jab?
Their choice to make though.
Indeed it is - and I would fight for them to have that right
that does not mean that I would continue with them as a friend and they certainly would not be entering my house or getting within 2 m of me
As Duir said there are plenty Doctors,scientists and ‘smart’ people refusing this vaccine.
Bollox - citation please
Not much risk of dying to a healthy woman in her 30s is there?
Yes.
Next question?
My BIL is anti vax, his reasons are that...
... he's a moron?
It’s easy to see why so many people are choosing not to have this.
It is. Of course it is. But.
there are rather a lot of very well respected and highly qualified scientists, doctors and epidemiologists that are against the vaccine.
Are there? Name one.
Crikey..I’m as pro vax as they come and think those that don’t get a jab are absolute idiots, but I can’t believe so many folks would bin off their best mate if they didn’t get it!
It's a non-issue for me because I exercised quality control decades ago. I do not have anyone I'd class as a "best mate" who would be variously anti-vax, brexit-voting or exhibiting any other form of random ****ery. I excised my life of assholes two decades ago because life's too short. I'll chat and debate with those people online or in pubs and I welcome it, but they aren't any shape of 'friend' that I recognise.
@cougar, he’s always been the one that went against the grain, according to my Mrs. Always goes against best advice etc, maybe a moron but just retired at 55 & is very well off. Won’t get to enjoy it if the worst happens though will he.
People change, grow apart or whatever all the time, as above I wouldn't cut someone off for not having it but I'd kinda lose respect for them and be less keen to hang out with them.
What about the Millions of people dying of starvation yearly or from diarrhoea yearly?
Literal whataboutery. Is not having the CV19 vaccine going to help them somehow?
Notice there’s no figures for double jagged who’s in hospital. I personally know lots of double jagged ill with Covid.
Oh god, not this again.
Of those that die in car crashes, the vast majority, virtually all, were wearing seatbelts. So we should do away with them, right?
The vaccine is not 100% effective. It will not protect / save everyone. If we had 100% vaccination rates there would stlll be hospitalisations and deaths. Just whole load less than without. There are 50,000 new cases per day currently, but deaths are less than 1 in 1000. It was more like 1 in 70 or 80 before. Why do YOU think that is.
What about the Millions of people dying of starvation yearly or from diarrhoea yearly?
Literal whataboutery. Is not having the CV19 vaccine going to help them somehow?
In the context of the ‘medical emergency’ and speed of vaccine
Although ivermectin would have been a lot quicker, cheaper and more successful.
Notice there’s no figures for double jagged who’s in hospital. I personally know lots of double jagged ill with Covid.
Yeah this is a classic example of people thinking they have the ability to look at evidence when they really don't.
There's a strong correlation between double jabbed people and very old people, and very old people are far more likely to be hospitalised with covid...
Thirdly, what about AZ recipients? Are we second class citizens or just untermensch trash like the unvaccinated?
You're more likely to have a better and longer lasting T-cell response.
Erm because of the previous waves and the delta getting more transmissible but not as deadly
Notice there’s no figures for double jagged who’s in hospital. I personally know lots of double jagged ill with Covid.
Oh god, not this again.
Of those that die in car crashes, the vast majority, virtually all, were wearing seatbelts. So we should do away with them, right?
The vaccine is not 100% effective. It will not protect / save everyone. If we had 100% vaccination rates there would stlll be hospitalisations and deaths. Just whole load less than without. There are 50,000 new cases per day currently, but deaths are less than 1 in 1000. It was more like 1 in 70 or 80 before. Why do YOU think that is.
Although ivermectin would have been a lot quicker, cheaper and more successful.
Who says?
I would...tell them I value them as a friend but are concerned by their attitude to covid vaccination and, for that reason, will limit contact to outdoors only - and maintain sensible precautions, even if they don't/won't.
If they won't accept that...tough because I won't risk my health for the sake of their misguided/wrong view.
Health first; everything else is secondary.
Although ivermectin would have been a lot quicker, cheaper and more successful.
Who says?
Lots and lots of Doctors
@grum try Google but it’s probably been censored out
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TG6BuSjwP4o
Although ivermectin would have been a lot quicker, cheaper and more successful.
Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug. True is shows activity against RNA viruses in lab culture but at high concentrations not suitable for humans. There is no data to prove that it has any effect on sars-cov-2 infections. You'll have to wait for large scale studies before claiming that.
Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug. True is shows activity against RNA viruses in lab culture but at high concentrations not suitable for humans. There is no data to prove that it has any effect either. You’ll have to wait for large scale studies before claiming that.
Exactly! Why didn’t they do that study when it was proven to work and been used safely for years! Surly a lot quicker and cheaper.
Ahh cheaper..repurpose = no £££$$$
Noticed today Canada has signed up to 2024 with Pfizer for Covid Boosters
@grum try Google but it’s probably been censored out
Oh cool a YouTube video by a former producer of Fox & Friends, seems a legit source of science knowledge.
@grum the original video from dark horse podcast was taken down. Censorship
I guess your to intelligent to go listen to it though
This maybe apocryphal but an acquaintance was trying to purade me there is a correlation between those in the younger age brackets electing not to have the vaccine and those doing bonus related sales jobs. i.e. the sort of people who do self orientated me me me style jobs making self orientated me me me style vaccine choices.
Getting the jab for me was ENTIRELY about the benefit to the community. Those that look at the odds and make the decision to not get jabbed based on the risk to themselves without thinking out about the broader context I will always think less of. I'd put them in the same lump of folk as the fly tippers - not out and out villains but those who the rest of us would probably get along better if they were to not be around anymore. The clagnuts if you will.