[Closed] we will remember them

Me too, suited and booted, to remember friends and colleagues who haven't come back, those who have been injured, those who are currently deployed, and those who will deploy in the future. And importantly, to remember the families of those who serve.

Ill be wearing my poppy and Regimental tie with immense pride. I hope everyone else will too.

Yep im sat in uniform waiting to march out onto plymouth cenotaph

Poppy on. I'm on call, but will be ignoring any incoming calls at 11. The only other person working here today is ex-RGJ so he'll be doing the same.

My parents have been selling poppies for the past week or two, only one negative reaction...an Iranian fellow who accused my dad of being 'a murderer'.

Me too, suited and booted, to remember friends and colleagues who haven't come back, those who have been injured, those who are currently deployed, and those who will deploy in the future. And importantly, to remember the families of those who serve.

I guess I'll get slated for this, but why is Remembrance Day only about remembering those in the armed forces and their families, not civilians?

My local Cenotaph is the Cenotaph, so gets rather busy.

Will be at another, smaller memorial in town for 1100. Then a stroll to the Field of Remembrance at Westminster later on.

bravohotel8er - Member
My parents have been selling poppies for the past week or two, only one negative reaction...an Iranian fellow who accused my dad of being 'a murderer'.

I trust your parents were suitably defended by the public? Hope so anyway.

I guess I'll get slated for this, but why is Remembrance Day only about remembering those in the armed forces and their families, not civilians?

Not by me you won't. Stats suggest that serving in Afghanistan is about as dangerous as working on a farm in terms of deaths per annum. Cannot recall when last our local high street was closed to remember the farmers who died putting food on our tables.

patriotpro - Member

bravohotel8er - Member
My parents have been selling poppies for the past week or two, only one negative reaction...an Iranian fellow who accused my dad of being 'a murderer'.

I trust your parents were suitably defended by the public? Hope so anyway.

Yes, passers-by objected to the gentleman's remark with some rather 'robust' comments!

Fair point Grum and not unreasonable. Remembrance Day is about remembering those who have given their lives in conflict and that means predominantly the Armed Forces. But it would be callous to disregard the contribution of civilians.

mtbfix - Member

I guess I'll get slated for this, but why is Remembrance Day only about remembering those in the armed forces and their families, not civilians?

Not by me you won't. Stats suggest that serving in Afghanistan is about as dangerous as working on a farm in terms of deaths per annum. Cannot recall when last our local high street was closed to remember the farmers who died putting food on our tables.

If you cannot see the difference between the two then you won't possibly understand any explanation.

We're fortunate enough to live in a country where we're able (within reason) to say what we like, however sometimes it's probably for the best if we don't bother.

mtbfix - Member
I guess I'll get slated for this, but why is Remembrance Day only about remembering those in the armed forces and their families, not civilians?
Not by me you won't. Stats suggest that serving in Afghanistan is about as dangerous as working on a farm in terms of deaths per annum. Cannot recall when last our local high street was closed to remember the farmers who died putting food on our tables.

Start another thread if you want a remembrance day for farmers as this is not the one. ➡

bravohotel8er - Member
patriotpro - Member
bravohotel8er - Member

Yes, passers-by objected to the gentleman's remark with some rather 'robust' comments!

Good 🙂

Start another thread if you want a remembrance day for farmers as this is not the one

Why? Are their lives less important?

zokes - Member

Start another thread if you want a remembrance day for farmers as this is not the one

Why? Are their lives less important?

Look over your shoulder. You may be able to see the point somewhere in the middle distance.

Whilst I agree that others who have died are also worthy of commemoration, the purpose of this day is not to remember everyone who has ever died, in the history of the world, it is to remember those who have lost their lives whilst serving their country in conflicts here at home and around the world.

Do we remember the enemy combatants too? (who after all were sometimes "right") How far back do we go in our remembrance? Only sometimes it seems that anything before the Great War doesn't really matter.

it is to remember those who have lost their lives whilst serving their country in conflicts here at home and around the world.

As opposed to those minding their own business whilst being killed by those serving someone else's country?

I'm just not sure how i feel about remembrance day any more.... the hypocrisy of warmongering politicians laying wreaths while their bank accounts fill with money from arms dealing is just too much.

i will stand in silence for those who gave everything to defend this country when it was under attack, for their bravery and selflessness as i always do.

but there is certainly conflict within me about it when i consider the motivations of the more recent conflicts such as Iraq, where our country illegally attacked another, for financial profit at the cost of so many thousands of civilian lives

maybe this isn't a day to consider the politics of our forign policy but then again maybe this is exactly the day to do that, for surely this is a day for remembering just how terrible war really is, and for encouraging a stop to armed conflicts

Just got back. There were a few people hanging around but it appears the main ceremony is later. Don't they have watches?

*edit* re - posted on t'other thread

Look beyond the nationalism,poor sods have been killed , maimed and living in fear on duty through no fault of their own. Remember the individuals.
Theres a soldier who lost 3 limbs and lives in a tower block. Lets hope his life is made a bit easier through funds raised.

I wonder whether Mr T. Blair asked for an appearance fee?

I was helping to clean a local cenotaph yesterday, leaves etc and had to explain to several of the helpers what Rememberance Day was. I was astonished they didn't know.

I will remember the fallen.

@jonah tonto I understand exactly where you are coming frm but its the soldiers we are remebering not the plitocians. These guys made huge and often the ultimate sacrifice in many cases defending us. Occasionally such as Iraq in an illegal war but that does not prevent us remebering those doing their jobs for us. Its a shame that the politicians didn.t do theirs.

I won't poat my thoughts on the Iraq war as itts abut remembering our heros today.

[img] [/img]

Very pleased that we still know how to conduct Remembrance day with dignity and that we stop to remember all those who suffered in combat. Long may it continue.

[img] [/img]

i hope my comment hasn't caused offence, i was just voicing my internal conflict. i do have great respect for those we are remembering today.

I think we all feel that conflict jonah..

What we chose to do with those negative emotions is what defines us..

Do we let them fester & burn & grow to a point at which they dictate our actions?

Or do we chose to let them go on this day & instead concentrate on those feelings, that though sad, ultimately are more positive & constructive..

I wear my poppy with pride.

Well said mrlebowski. I don't think anyone took offence Jonah

There are some ***** on here Jonah. You are not one of them.

It's important to remember that the Armed Forces are apolitical and serve the Queen, not Parliament. Remembrance Day isn't about glorifying or legitimising any conflict - all those who have seen it first hand know how dirty and horrendous it is. Today's about remembering those who have selflessly offered themselves to serve and protect this country.

The only statement that should be made through remembrance should be along the lines of, "Thanks for everything you did".

People can make their political statments some other time.

Went to the service at QE hospital, birmingham. The names of those who in the last 12 months were flown back but passed away there were read out. It was a morning for remembering; no chest beating or high jacking as some seem to think. My partner is one of several hundred medical personnel stationed there, who also spend their time serving the public on the wards

I don't think I'd be brave enough to fight in a war - I might be, but I hope I never get the chance to find out.

Other people are - and a lot of them have been damaged and killed - I owe a debt of gratitude.

I don't much care for the political points on rememberance day - the rights and wrongs of Bomber Command in WWII for example - because that's not what it should be about. Those discussions are for another day.

They had a veteran on the BBC remembrance programme last night who'd flown 60 missions over occupied Europe in WWII, more than likely by them time he was ten years younger than me now. God only knows what he saw, felt and has lived with since.

Was at my son's rugby club. They got all the kids in a big circle for the 2 minutes silence. Was quite moving.
I used to have very negative feelings about the rememberance - those who should remember - the war mongering politicians, never learn the lessons of the past, so we remember those who fight their wars for them.

I didn't go this year, first time in a long while, no real reason, I didn't buy a poppy either, there's still one attached to my car from last year.

That said it and it generally wasn't a reaction to what I'd describe as extreme mawkish behaviour by 'slebs' and anyone remotely in the public eye, with whom I've no wish to identify, I still have a couple of moments to myself reflecting on what all those folks who gave their lives in the two defensive conflicts would think about the way things have turned out.

The bomber boys will no doubt be pleased they got a memorial at last but would probably wonder why it took so long and how the money had to be raised.

We managed to organise a two minute silence on a busy surgical admissions ward.

Fair number of old war veterans among the patients - it was an honour to look after 'em.

It is an honor to show respect to all who have gone before and still go where most won't or don't want to.
It boils my p*ss when people don't or won't show that respect.
I wonder how many of the keyboard warriors on the "other" thread would mouth off the same faced with some of those veterans and their families :-/
I've lost count of the school friends, acquaintances, friends, family and comrades that are no longer around and they will never be forgotten.

Wasn't at a remembrance service, but made sure I marked it whilst out

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8175118560_e7bde0cd4c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8175118560_e7bde0cd4c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/8175118560/ ]11 Nov 2012 13:42[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cheesyfeet/ ]gary_foulger[/url], on Flickr

I am not from your country but i am surprised that there is resistance to those who wish to remember those who died fighting for their country. I too will remember my people who died half way around the world, trying to build something that would be remembered for ever. My ancestor died in this endeavour, yet others would sully his efforts. You have nomidea of the meaning of honour

I wonder how many of the keyboard warriors on the "other" thread would mouth off the same faced with some of those veterans and their families

Some would probably still try.

Here's a thought - just because I have opinions, and some of them are deeply held, there might be occasions on which it would be respectful and [u]appropriate[/u] to keep them to myself. Too many people nowadays think that just because they are entitled to an opinion, they must ram it down throats whenever possible.

I dare say some of the soldiers killed on the Somme, for example, would have some fairly pithy views on the point of it all (especially those conscripted). They didn't get the chance to, though, and that's the point - respect sometimes means holding your tongue.

Sometimes it says more about a person if they stay quiet!

I would like to thank all those who have stood up and sacrificed in order that I can express my opinion freely without any physical threat of violence that would prevent me from doing so.
I would like to thank all of those who, while disagreeing with me, permit me to express my opinion freely.
Thank you for fighting on my behalf.

Not by me you won't. Stats suggest that serving in Afghanistan is about as dangerous as working on a farm in terms of deaths per annum. Cannot recall when last our local high street was closed to remember the farmers who died putting food on our tables.

John Thorold Foulger, one of my ancestors.

I never knew him as he was killed way before my time and way before it should have been 'his time'. He had no choice, he was sent to war. He never got the chance to see future generations of our family. So many, too many, young men met the same fate.

We knew that John died when he was 21 in the First World War had information that he was killed at Delvewood in France. With this in mind, we set about finding out a bit more. This is what we have found out so far......

John Thorold Foulger
Lance Corporal, Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment), 1st Battalion
Service Number L/10817
Died 22/07/1916
Buried at Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval in the Somme region of France.
Grave is IX.E.14

From research (from the Royal West Regiment history), it seems likely that John was killed somewhere near High Wood or Delville Wood in the Somme region in France.

Longueval is a village approximately 13 kilometres east of Albert and 10 kilometres south of Bapaume. Caterpillar Valley Cemetery lies a short distance west of Longueval on the south side of the road to Contalmaison.

Caterpillar Valley was the name given by the army to the long valley which rises eastwards, past "Caterpillar Wood", to the high ground at Guillemont. The ground was captured, after very fierce fighting, in the latter part of July 1916, so it seems likely that John was killed during this battle, especially as he was laid to rest in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery.
Caterpillar Valley was lost in the German advance of March 1918 and recovered by the 38th (Welsh) Division on 28 August 1918, when a little cemetery was made (now Plot 1 of this cemetery) containing 25 graves of the 38th Division and the 6th Dragoon Guards. After the Armistice, this cemetery was hugely increased when the graves of more than 5,500 officers and men were brought in from other small cemeteries, and the battlefields of the Somme. The great majority of these soldiers died in the autumn of 1916 and almost all the rest in August or September 1918. CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY now contains 5,569 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 3,796 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 32 casualties known or believed to be buried among them, and to three buried in McCormick's Post Cemetery whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. On the east side of the cemetery is the CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL, commemorating more than 1,200 officers and men of the New Zealand Division who died in the Battles of the Somme in 1916, and whose graves are not known. This is one of seven memorials in France and Belgium to those New Zealand soldiers who died on the Western Front and whose graves are not known. The memorials are all in cemeteries chosen as appropriate to the fighting in which the men died. Both cemetery and memorial were designed by Sir Herbert Baker.

Lest we forget

Was working on F wing this morning, came over the net that there'd be a 2 minute silence at 11 (a prisoner had already written it on the board, 'shut the **** up at 11 for 2 minutes' or words to that effect) At 11 when it came over the net I shouted, '2 minutes silence please!' I was surprised when 2 games of pool stopped mid stride, 4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn't speak & placed their dominoes down quietly (instead of slamming them down, as they do) & the wing went quieter than I'd heard it for a long time. The only one's who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

I went today, mostly for the uncle I never knew who died in Korea.

I wear a poppy, and not just for the dead.

My great uncle is now 94, and still living with PTSD caused by spending a lot of his time in service working on the Burma Railway as a Japanese POW. He also has to live with the guilt he feels about being one of the lucky few to survive the experience.

The pain has stopped,
For I am dead.
My time on earth is done.
But in a hundred years from now, I will still be twenty-one.
My brief, sweet life is over,
My eyes no longer see,
No summer walks,
No Christmas trees,
No pretty girls for me.
I’ve got the chop, I’ve had it.
My nightly ops are done.

Yet in another hundred years, I’ll still be twenty-one.

[i](Epitaph from ""Ode to an Airman" by Sgt R.W. Gilbert, M/UG on Halifaxes with 158 Squadron)[/i]

Epitaph from ""Ode to an Airman" by Sgt R.W. Gilbert, M/UG on Halifaxes with 158 Squadron)

Brought a tear to my eye as i remember a long lost uncle A D-DAY VET.
WILLIAM LANE
Plus my farther RIP .ROBERT TURNER.
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

Rode down to the local cenotaph today as my nephew was carrying the flag for his cadet unit. I was pleasantly surprised at the turnout (reckon a couple of hundred people) in what isn't a military town.

Restored a little bit of faith in my fellow man particularly as so many are ignorant of the sacrifices made. My great grandfather survived the First World War but my great uncle died aged 21 as a sergeant pilot over Germany in World War Two.

I won't forget

http://flt-sgt-wh-good-not-forgotten.weebly.com/index.html

If anyone is interested in his story follow the link above.

the best tribute you could have to the war dead is to stop the arms trade, of which britian is a massive contributer. not this jingoistic nonsense we get every year.

At 11:00AM I was standing silently in the middle of the Beacons. I wear the poppy proudly, thankful that because of others my family has a peaceful life. I am a teacher and regularly get asked to act as a referee for youngsters wanting to join up. It really is thought provoking.

the best tribute you could have to the war dead is to stop the arms trade, of which britian is a massive contributer. not this jingoistic nonsense we get every year.

There was another thread which would have been more apt for that kind of comment, you should have posted on that one..

This one if for those who chose to remember..

Please be respectful.

edit, infact i canny even be bothered.

what's the point in preaching to the converted?

This isnt the thread for that, this isnt what this ones about.

Please be respectful.

Ive nothing further to add.

Goodnight.

The trolls are out in force then? The armed forces past, present and future deserve our unwavering respect, regardless of political issues - they should not detract from rememberance day. This day is to remember those who have sacrificed all for the protection of our country, and the upholding of values we rightfully want (world or nationwide).

Okay, you and others asked for this - what about remembering all the war dead - that I feel so many are forgetting. Oh but we must put our armed forces up and on a pedestal and bask in their glory, anyone who doesn't is akin to a paedo.

What about all those massacre's that the British Army are known for? What ****ing values did the Para's in Bloody Sunday uphold again, what values did the British soldiers involved in the Mau Mau uprising uphold, what values did our soldiers uphold in the Boer war, what values did our soldiers uphold in the Opium War? Oh but they deserve our unwavering respect regardless, we must all bow down to social pressure. Just about the only truly just war in the past 5 centuries has been WW2 and arguably a few of the Balkan shit throwing contests.

Check out the last Tommy's views on the poppy and perhaps Robert Fisks grandfathers, both of which held very similar views to my veteran grandparents and uncles. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html.

Here's a thought - just because I have opinions, and some of them are deeply held, there might be occasions on which it would be respectful and appropriate to keep them to myself. Too many people nowadays think that just because they are entitled to an opinion, they must ram it down throats whenever possible.

Yeah that would be a start, maybe some of the more jingoistic poppy wearers should shut it as well. It's like living in the bible belt of America - wear your proppy but I don't want to hear your views rammed down my throat on the news, in the papers, in public, or at parties.

P.S The pics for all the red faced angry patriots that will now post that they want to knock me out and defeat the original interwar point of the poppy. Also, I donated to the RBL but I won't be caught dead wearing poppy seeing what I feel it's come to represent.

[img] [/img]

This one if for those who chose to remember..

I chose to remember, others in this thread have clearly made opinions about how remembrance should be done. If you guys didn't want someone to dispute that, it shouldn't have been posted.

Fisk's article is rather histrionic, imo.

It's perfectly possible to wear a poppy [i]and[/i] grasp the complexity of history. Just as it's perfectly possible to honour the memory of the dead [i]and[/i] despise the ease with which politicians send soldiers to war. If Fisk feels he has to stamp his own views on it, in a tone of almost [i]Daily Wail[/i] outrage, that's his [s]business[/s] paycheck.

Heartened to see that nobody gives a ****what bwaarp thinks ! 😆

Who?

I choose this time to remember members of my family who fought to defend their people when the invaders came, and fought to resist them when they stayed, then they fought to liberate themselves when the imperialist arrived and displaced the invaders, then they fought to free themselves of the imperialists and the invaders came back and they fought for their freedom once more. Eventually, after many years of sacrifice, they were given back their country. Many died for this freedom, I chose to remember them.

From my 7 year old yesterday while watching the remembrance ceremony on the telly:

"Daddy, if they're all so sad about people who die in wars, why do they keep starting them?".

esselgruntfuttock - Member
Was working on F wing this morning, came over the net that there'd be a 2 minute silence at 11 (a prisoner had already written it on the board, 'shut the **** up at 11 for 2 minutes' or words to that effect) At 11 when it came over the net I shouted, '2 minutes silence please!' I was surprised when 2 games of pool stopped mid stride, 4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn't speak & placed their dominoes down quietly (instead of slamming them down, as they do) & the wing went quieter than I'd heard it for a long time. The only one's who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

When i read the first couple of lines, I thought "he works in a jail", then I realised I was wrong and you were talking about the local youth-club. 😉

4 black lads playing dominoes kept playing but didn't speak & placed their dominoes down quietly

Well, that's good to hear.

The only one's who kept yapping were 4 travelling lads playing cards & some asians who turned their music up.
Respect to those who respect.

I think it might be a strange situation for such a group. It seems that Remembrance is for remembering the British and Commonwealth servicemen who died in the wars. In such a situation, they might have felt excluded. I mean it would depend if they were from a Commonwealth country or not. But it must be a complex situation, with complex emotions, in which an occupying force recruited locals to fight to maintain their position over the local population.

My grandfather was called up as an 18 year old conscript in WW2. He served in the north Atlantic and mediterranean convoys. His destroyer torpedoed by a U-boat, surviving only because he dived off the side and was picked up by another vessel. He has a piece of shrapnel in his side to this day. He was on the ship that relieved Changi jail, when his navy officers shot Allied POWs in the head to put them out of their misery.

He thought (sadly, dementia is now too advanced for this sort of conversation any more) that WW2 was mainly frightened young men doing what they were told and that Remembrance Sunday is a load of jingoistic nonsense that glorifies war.

Of course, other veterans feel differently, but I suspect my grandfather's view is more common than one might suppose from media coverage of Remembrance day.

On my 18th birthday I was chatting to one of the old regulars in the local football club where I worked as a barman. On my next shift behind the bar he showed me a faded picture of him on his 18th...in the picture he was a skinny, grinning lad wearing shorts and holding a rifle. He signed up when he was 17 and ended up in North Africa, he got a bit emotional when he was telling me about the other people in the picture. They were all of roughly some of the same age, mostly volunteers, but many of the people in the picture ended up buried by him and the rest of his squad somewhere in Africa.

I have the greatest respect for people who make the sacrifices that the armed forces do, particularly those who fought in WW1/WW2.

My maternal grandfather was in the Royal Artillery in WW2, and his wife was in the Auxiliary Territorial Service stationed in France. According to my grandmother, after the war my grandfather was never the same...she believed this is due to what he saw after being involved in the liberation of Bergen-Belsen.

In response to the 'anti-remembrance brigade'; I have absolutely no time for people who are using the sacrifices of the armed forces to further their own political agendas*.

*to answer the inevitable [i]"what about the political agendas of Blair/Bush and their war-mongering"[/i] - you're missing the point.

Before the inevitable flaming starts, I would start by saying that I lost my paternal Grandfather on the Somme, and my family is still dealing with the aftermath of that to this day. My wifes father was a Japanese Pow during WW2 and her side of the family are likewise still dealing with that.

Personally, and with very limited exceptions, I think the best way to honour our war dead is to turn upon any Government worldwide that rattles sabres and looks to resolve disputes through force with one voice and villify them, impose sanctions or whatever else we can do other than start a punch up. I think that is at the nub of the issue regarding militaristic celebrations of our war dead. There are those, myself included who do get a tad uptight about anything that seems to glorify, justify or nullify the horror of warfare, which fairly often these rememberance day things can do.

I would not however, choose that day or indeed some poor sods funeral to put that view forward.