Aneurin Bevan 9 Feb 1948, House of CommonsAnd how did he change their minds?
By, "stuffing their mouths with gold." Bevan again
He didn't stuff their mouths with gold. My grandfather had his practice compulsorily purchased for less than his outstanding purchase loan on it. He died in his early 60s having worked himself to death to repay that loan from NHS earnings.
My father followed him as a GP and worked as an (almost) non earning partner with his father to help his father pay those debts. My father only started earning once he was past 40.
The only place you could suggest any causality IMO, is that care provided free at the point of need removes any incentive for people to look after themselves as they don't directly connect their self-abuse with the financial costs of treating it...
Whilst, of course, in a country like the USA where people are directly incentivised by extremely expensive health provision individuals are the very model of health and wellbeing.
I don't live in the UK.
I live in a country with no NHS.
My doctors surgery receptionist knows me by the sound of my voice over the telephone and calls me by my first name, my doctor calls me by first name and knows about my interests as well as my health. We have a discussion about the various benefits of biking and races.
I never have to wait for an appointment.
My youngest son has a disability that the doctors on the UK couldn't identify, our local hospital had it sussed in a couple of visits.
My sons specialist calls me with updates, when he needed food allergy testing we saw someone within 2 weeks.
I'm not saying the NHS sucks but it could be better, a lot better!
Poorly managed and no consequences for poor performance.
As a balance a family member is an auditor within the NHS, you would not believe the **** ups and wastage.
And that this worsening of health, along with an ageing population is going to overload the NHS, and therefore [s]reform[/s] large scale investment is surely necessary.
FTFY.
An example of wasting money:
I get free prescriptions for life due to a permanent health condition. Not only does this entitle me to free meds for this one condition (I buy my own, another story!) but any other meds I may need during my lifetime.
😐
The NHS isn’t perfect, and I don’t see anyone claiming it is.
It has flaws that can be worked on. It doesn’t need flattening just because it can be a bit inefficient. It’s like scrapping a car because the tyres are under–inflated.
America has a worse obesity problem than us and it doesn’t have public healthcare provision. If people stop living healthily, taking away their right to healthcare won’t help. Obesity is a symptom of something beyond the realm of healthcare, the NHS can treat that symptoms of it but the cause will exist whatever healthcare system we have in place.
If anybody would care to actually sit through the video, lots of what is being said in this thread is covered in quite eye opening detail.
I admire your love of the NHS. Just remember that not everybody shares it.
I admire your love of the NHS. Just remember that not everybody shares it.
Trust me, I’m very well aware of this.
What I find most depressing and frustrating is that those of us who do, on the whole, don’t seem to have the first clue just how likely you are to get your way.
Democracy requires an informed electorate. We have a willing opposite.
An example of wasting money:I get free prescriptions for life due to a permanent health condition. Not only does this entitle me to free meds for this one condition (I buy my own, another story!) but any other meds I may need during my lifetime.
CG - the number of prescriptions that are paid for, compared to the number that are 'free' (that is, the dispensing charge of £7ish is paid), is SUCH a small minority, that I can see the system going the way of the Welsh i.e. all prescriptions are free.
When I go through the local pharmacy the teeny tiny stack of 'paid for prescriptions' is completely overshadowed by the 'free' stack! Someone has to be paid to sort through these prescriptions to ensure that the correct people are claiming, and I would be surprised if it ('the NHS') 'made' a significant sum by charging for scripts. If all scripts were free, then there wouldn't be the need to check up on them....
That's not to say there isn't a fair amount of savings that could (need to..) be made within the NHS, but this really isn't a big money spender...
The locality that I work in has the enviable task of 'saving' over 20 million squid this coming year. I struggle to see how patient care [b]isn't[/b] going to be compromised somehow...
I often raise at meetings the analogy of replacing car tyres - if [b]four[/b] tyres are bald, they all need replacing. However, one could save 25% by only replacing [b]three[/b] couldn't they....
DrP
An example of wasting money:I get free prescriptions for life due to a permanent health condition. Not only does this entitle me to free meds for this one condition (I buy my own, another story!) but any other meds I may need during my lifetime.
I agree. You should pay for all your medication at whatever level the manufacturer sets the price.
Why should I, as a taxpayer, fund your long term condition.
I admire your love of the NHS. Just remember that not everybody shares it.
Sorry to come back to this, but I feel I should also make it known that I don’t particularly ‘love’ the NHS. No argument is so black and white as to justify any such extreme.
My outlook is shaped more by a fear of the alternative, an alternative evidenced elsewhere, and the motivations behind it. I’m all for change and reform where necessary, but necessity is not what this is about.
The destruction of the NHS is just one factor of an ideological onslaught from an elite ruling class of inherited–wealth millionaires who got into power with a minority vote, who now with the help of their millionaire friends running the media, use divide and conquer tactics to push through socially catastrophic measures under a cloak of austerity with the intention of further increasing their own impossibly and unnecessarily abundant wealth while simultaneously ravaging the political landscape they’ll leave behind so as to render any future attempts to turn back their work all but impossible.
It’s a smash and grab, and they’re getting away with it because we’re distracted by immigrants, gay marriage, benefit scroungers, fat people and the cost of prescriptions.
IMHO.
I agree. You should pay for all your medication at whatever level the manufacturer sets the price.Why should I, as a taxpayer, fund your long term condition.
Ah, the warmth and fluffiness of our fellow citizens.
Because it is a [u]collective[/u] system, a dirty word in today's selfish individualistic free market economy.
I admire your love of the NHS. Just remember that not everybody shares it.
They screwed up a back operation my Brother had, which means he hasn't been able to work for the last eight years, but the care my mother received when she had a stroke recently was first class.
I find it disturbing that people want to change it because of their own experiences with it, The NHS does need to improve in a lot of areas but, I don't see how the alternative been touted which is privatisation is going to do that.
You can be delivery efficient, I.e how you deliver those services or
Financially efficient, how much money you save for profit.
The latter has been taken for the majority of the former public services, such as utilities and look where we are now.
I agree. You should pay for all your medication at whatever level the manufacturer sets the price.Why should I, as a taxpayer, fund your long term condition.
No need to get pissy mate as I pay for my own meds. OK?
CG - the number of prescriptions that are paid for, compared to the number that are 'free' (that is, the dispensing charge of £7ish is paid), is SUCH a small minority, that I can see the system going the way of the Welsh i.e. all prescriptions are free.When I go through the local pharmacy the teeny tiny stack of 'paid for prescriptions' is completely overshadowed by the 'free' stack! Someone has to be paid to sort through these prescriptions to ensure that the correct people are claiming, and I would be surprised if it ('the NHS') 'made' a significant sum by charging for scripts. If all scripts were free, then there wouldn't be the need to check up on them....
I hear what you're saying Dr P but there's thousands of people with my condition who source their own drugs from the internet. My GP knows what I do. So, in theory, my exemption card could be taken off me as I self-fund?
I really wouldn't want to go the way of free prescriptions for all, far too expensive and patients would wait months for an appointment with their GP!
I agree. You should pay for all your medication at whatever level the manufacturer sets the price.
Oooooh another one for you - are you aware that Big Pharma can rip off the NHS big-time when supplying drugs?
Oooooh another one for you - are you aware that Big Pharma can rip off the NHS big-time when supplying drugs?
What does that tell us?
