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Did you know that current expert opinion is that rough and tumble is an important part of child development?
It's only positive if both kids are playing. You should be able to tell if one kid is upset or afraid, or one kid is overly aggressive.
Awwww! Bless little Tommy getting all confused.
I find your need to use humour to achieve dominance interesting, given the context of this being a fairly reasonable debate. Were you bullied a lot as a child Drac?
It's just bants. Yes.
*e-hug*
The Gillette advert told me I should give you one.
Bants looks a lot like toxic masculinity. Do you do the BBQing by any chance?
So we're not allowed to look at wimmin's arses anymore? ☹️
Bants looks a lot like toxic masculinity. Do you do the BBQing by any chance?
Snowflake. Yeah but I only do the steaks rare like a real man.
So we’re not allowed to look at wimmin’s arses anymore?
As long as you're Lesbian or Trans-Woman Lesbian it's totally fine.
I thought being a TERF was the in thing now and that trans people were as offensive as men.
Seen the social media strop but that's the first time I've seen the ad. I'm failing to have a problem with it. I agree with the message. Not sure what's it's got to do with razors, would like to know the composition of the board of the company and what the company itself is doing to make it's own work places equitable and free from harrassment. And I've had a beard for over 30 years.
*e-hug*
The Gillette advert told me I should give you one.
Fortuitous that the clip ends before the punchline!!
So we’re not allowed to look at wimmin’s arses anymore?
Offended you spelt women's wrong
It's incredible how many times folk use the words snowflake and gammon at each other doubtlessly thinking the terms are cutting and hilarious.
I think the saddest part of all this nonsense is that it shows up the majority of men, on both sides, as being unable to progress beyond playground fighting and name calling. Right now in 2019 it should be possible for us to make constructive steps in what we want to be and our sons to be in the future without banal bickering.
Women have it sussed, they've made huge advances in their freedoms and life choices by working together. Us men are basically still dragging our knuckles on the ground and speaking in grunts.
With a bit of luck this Ad and other future attempts to impregnate the thick, leaden skulls of men with compassion and sensibilty might eventuallyone day get us all to WAKE UP and live in some kind of harmony with each other without the chest beating.
Women have it sussed, they’ve made huge advances in their freedoms and life choices by working together. Us men are basically still dragging our knuckles on the ground and speaking in grunts.
What a totally patronising post. Some women have some haven't, women are just people, some are great others are dicks,they aren't something as a group men should look up to and try and emulate. And just because you drag your knuckles on the ground I don't and nor do many men. The problem with the advert (if there is a problem) is that it gives the impression that apart from a "few" exceptions most men conform to negative stereotypes.
C'mon Drac, you do know men can give birth as well? Honestly you are such a knuckle dragger.
I don't mind the ad, but then I don't take a lot from it either. If it's on the TV, it's trying to either entertain you or sell you something and the two aren't mutually exclusive.
As others have said, Gillette will have known fine well that their add would cause some controversy especially in the US, but marketing for a large company isn't interested in the now, it's interested in the future. So perhaps reacting to we're losing sales at the bottom end to Harry's Razors. What's the demographic of those we've lost? Without slashing price to compete, are we ever going to get them back? No - okay, we need to move the marketplace. What about an ad which cements our position with a demographic who doesn't care so much about price, but about perceived quality and ease of supply and image?
It's now just a numbers game - X% offended (the demographic you're already losing) vs. y% approval (the demographic you're targeting). Are they close? Yes = run the ad. Maybe = Probably still run the Ad. No - don't run the Ad.
Simple.
In my view, you can still be a man without being an oaf.
Never seen the ad till now. Totally underwhelming and I’ve just grown a beard anyway. Just used the gf safety razor to shave my arse. Does that win me metrosexual points??
Why on earth would you want to shave your arse?!?
In my view, you can still be malt without being a loaf.
The most sensible thing I've read all day.
I don't seem to be able to post images anymore...
200 btw....🙂
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm quite polarizing isn't it.
and on a sobering not shit keeps happening, violence continues.
You men want to stop being lumped in with all the "bad apples"? Consider yourselves lucky that this is all you have to deal with. Women just want to get home safely, and to not become another statistic in the much more prevalent danger posed to us by the men we live with, sleep with and sit across the table from once we get there.
Think about that the next time you decide to whine that "it’s a really scary time to be a man".
...
Men, you need to ask yourselves which side of that line you want to be on. Do you want to be one of the bricks in the wall that adds to the foundation of sexism and misogyny? That helps create the structure to which the worst of men can ascend to the most frightening of levels? Or do you want to be part of the team that's tearing it down?
It's your choice. Pick your side.
Somewhere in Australia right now, there’s a woman reading this news who’s just like Aiia Masarwe, like Eurydice Dixon, Tracey Connolly, Jill Meagher, Lynette Daley, Vicki Cleary, Anita Cobby and all the other countless women who came before her. We don’t know her name yet. But we will.
Pick. Your. Side.
@mikewsmith good post, but very slanted. This line of discussion for me is always a problem, it seems to only talk about the end result, which is brutal and insidious. but there is never a discussion on what shapes men to become like this. Maybe because that discussion would mean a closer look at how young children are treated and parented and the long term effects that the negative experiences have on them. And those issues aren't restricted to one gender, we are only just starting to talk about the effects of children being weaponised in custody disputes, the effects of parental alienation and the mimicking of learned behaviour from one or both of the parents.
I think the constant gendering of the discussion gives rise to more fighting than movement towards decent and thought-provoking debate and prevents any meaningful and practical prevention suggestions. It's a shame because kids are being infected daily with the most toxic slow-release poison and starting on a path that leads to misery and worse, the loss of life.
@mikeS Try to gaslight all you want about a rape culture. This is exactly the sort of ridiculous guilt by association (being male) nonsense that is wrong with the ad.
I've witnessed what are deemed traits of 'toxic masculinity' in many a female soldier. We have had same-sex DV cases to deal with and same-sex sexual offences. It's why I don't buy the gendered discussion, it should just be a discussion on toxic behaviours, how they start and what to do to try and prevent them.
Tragic incident, terrible article.
Pick. Your. Side.
Side. Spilts. In. Two.
Pick. Your. Side.
Etc.
I think the saddest part of all this nonsense is that it shows up the majority of men, on both sides, as being unable to progress beyond playground fighting and name calling.
Pretty much why I gave up posting on this thread. Too many folk unable to empathise and try to understand how other folk might see things.
You men want to stop being lumped in with all the “bad apples”? Consider yourselves lucky that this is all you have to deal with. Women just want to get home safely, and to not become another statistic in the much more prevalent danger posed to us by the men we live with, sleep with and sit across the table from once we get there.
Think about that the next time you decide to whine that “it’s a really scary time to be a man”.
Dude, we get that it can be ****ing scary to walk home at night. Yes it's other men that are the cause of 99 percent of the violence, but it's also usually us guys who get our heads kicked in on a night out for no good reason or stabbed if we're really unlucky. There are plenty of place that I walk home at night thinking - I don't like this.
Good men, the majority of us - hate violent arseholes as well.
Being told to "pick your side" is no different from the Bush era "you're either with us or against us" - it allows no room for moderate discussion - and potentially drowns out valuable input from men on how to deal with societal violence.
There are sensible ways to reduce domestic violence and murders:
1) Increase mental healthcare funding, increase it's visibility and ease of access.
2) Improve social nets for those suffering from DV - make access to temp housing easier to get.
3) Increase police funding so they have the time and resources to investigate DV properly.
4) Better fund school education in regards to DV
The only thing you can do about sociopaths that kill random women is
1) Increase police presence
2) Give women smart firearms or tazers that can only be triggered by their hands. Concealed carry states have lower rates of stranger rape.
3) Maybe reduce inequality. I've heard that well run countries with plenty of meaningful jobs have less issues with murder.
4) Potential identify headcases in the school system - using a system like PREVENT.
You aren't going to help the poor lady in your link - by trying to guilt trip a sociopath.
Rene59..ever heard of 'white privilege'?
I suggest you do some research on that and especially 'male white privilege' to see some of the reasons for why others might feel they have an issue with it.
I'm going to guess you are a white male too judging by your comments.
This post above is why I facepalm
I think one of the messages in the ad is "don't stand and watch, do something, say something". I live in a pretty peaceful place but a while back was on a bus where a woman was being hassled by three yoofs. I said nothing but went and stood next to the woman. I'm not big, less than average build but my presence was enough for them to lose interest. There's video on the busses now.
...And male white priviledge is trotted out. This is as predictable as an Andy Mcnab storyline.
Good men, the majority of us – hate violent arseholes as well.
Point utterly totally missed.
@moose - ever wondered why it's repeatedly trotted out?
I like the use of Andy McNab too - own goal from where I see it.
You aren’t going to help the poor lady in your link – by trying to guilt trip a sociopath.
Why do you keep mentioning Sociopaths?
@mikeS Try to gaslight all you want about a rape culture. This is exactly the sort of ridiculous guilt by association (being male) nonsense that is wrong with the ad.
Not trying to manipulate anybody, it's another valid point of view in response to another apparently random attack and the culture that enables that.
Dude, we get that it can be **** scary to walk home at night. Yes it’s other men that are the cause of 99 percent of the violence, but it’s also usually us guys who get our heads kicked in on a night out for no good reason or stabbed if we’re really unlucky. There are plenty of place that I walk home at night thinking – I don’t like this.
Really you go out with a random risk of being stabbed or beaten up? Where is that? How random are these attacks? Do they normally happen to people once they are alone?
There are sensible ways to reduce domestic violence and murders:
1) Increase mental healthcare funding, increase it’s visibility and ease of access.
2) Improve social nets for those suffering from DV – make access to temp housing easier to get.
3) Increase police funding so they have the time and resources to investigate DV properly.
4) Better fund school education in regards to DV
Or some of the ways in the article by tacking the inherent sexism and attitudes from the start.
…And male white priviledge is trotted out. This is as predictable as an Andy Mcnab storyline.
Yeah, obviously if you don't think it exists then it's going to be hard for you to get it (and before the usual crap appears we could call it dominant ethnic/sex group privileged in the UK it's White Male). As the above example I've spoken to plenty of women who see the same walk home in a completely different light, don't feel safe in taxi's etc. They describe a situations where most people here would be 100% comfortable as being really uncomfortable based on the simple attitude of the men around them and the fact that very few will challenge that behaviour.
I am getting some reassurance from the fact that the vulnerable group of blokes who have been groomed by JPW, Jordan Peterson and their ilk, those aggressively defensive young boys, those heartbroken under-acheivers, have been weighed and measured by the number crunchers and have been found to be worthless.
That they are of no significant financial consequence to the marketing department suggests to me that this rebellious little temper tantrum is smaller than thought and the current fad for defending toxic masculinity as a cornerstone of contrarianism has run it's course..
Male privilege:
I worked for a while in an office with inadequate parking. One female colleague complained about it, so I suggested she park in the lane behind the car park as I did. 'I can't park there,' she said,'it's not lit'.
My male privilege is the fact that I get to park in a dark lane without fear of attack, and she doesn't.
And it's not like getting randomly attacked on a night out. You can avoid that by not going on nights out, or leaving early, or not going to busy town centres. You have to put yourself in that situation. Women face the threat of sexual assault or threatening behaviour all the time. When they are at work, when they are shopping, when they are out for a run - everywhere, every day. That's what #metoo was all about.
It's a real issue, and as someone unaffected by it you DO NOT get to simply dismiss it. You are being told there's a problem, but you are dismissing those telling you about it because you've not experienced it yourself.
This gendered argument has been raging for a while and still no headway made? Why is that? Could it be because the reasonable middle are being drowned out in the noise of the screaming?
I'm all for making the world a safer place for everyone, but leave the buzzword bingo at the door because it distracts from an open and honest debate.
My question is always the same, irrespective of gender, why is it that there is an overwhelming number of people who seem hell bent on inflicting serious physical, psychological and emotional harm to one another?
Where are these thought processes and behaviours being learned and what the **** are we going to do about it?
Excusing one side of the population from any scruntiy or responsibility in this equation. The JP worshippers and MRA's can go **** themselves along with the rest of the buzzword bullshit bingo enthusiasts.
MOLGRIPS, I'm more than aware of the threat to women, I've had to deal with the aftermath of serious issues and try and help reintegrate a couple of female soldiers into work afterwards. Only one stayed, the other was too affected. Which is sad because she was a decent human and rising star. So I'm well aware of the human cost in this.
Like I said, I'm not interested in discussing the semantics of gendered arguments, I'll happily engage with anyone about their issues and how I can help, but labelling everything only creates division and clouds objective thinking. And in my soon to end line of work, there's no traction in dividing people, it has disastrous consequences.
lame advert. Bring back the catsuits. There's no harm in it and even the models enjoy the living.
Shame Gillette used to and probably still do test on animals. Wilkinson do not.
@molegrips
From ONS website:
Men were more likely to be victims of CSEW violent crime than women (2.1% of males compared with 1.3% of females1, Figure 9). This was true for all types of violence, with the exception of acquaintance violence which showed no significant difference and domestic violence which showed the reverse trend (0.4% of females were victims compared to 0.2% of males). The year ending March 2017 CSEW showed that:
stranger violence showed the largest difference in victimisation between men and women (1.3% compared with 0.4%)
How do you reconcile you being over 3 times more likely a victim of stranger violence with your parking male privilidge?
So, anybody bought a Gillette razor yet? Has it changed you? Do you now partake of mahoosive side by side barbecue offs and stroke your smooth face whilst pulling the smuggest possible expression in the mirror? Are you more handsome than when you used your Bic, Harry’s or Wilkinson Sword? If you were a chauvinistic dickhead are you now reformed? If you were already a normal, decent person what’s happened?
I think this campaign has probably achieved the aim Gillette set out for it.
over 3 times more likely a victim of stranger violence
This.