I don't think you get it andrew. To make things simple for you I'll let you know that I think the class system is a bad thing. I'll let you know that to me it's obvious it exists.
Sorry mate, I think you don't get it. You're choosing to ignore the fact that I'm saying that the effects of people's belief in the class system are real. I could swap tinker and miner family stories with you if you like but I'm none too fussed to do so - I've not made a fetish out of mine.
How did Funkadelic put it all that time ago? Free your mind and your ass will follow. Marx and Engels said pretty much the same thing but without the funk.
Andrew, I do understand what you are saying. Knowing that receiving different treatment is because of an irrational prejudice does not change the treatment that is recieved. That is what I am saying.
Basic Marx.
and
Marx and Engels said pretty much the same thing
[i]Twice[/i] you mention Marx on this thread to back up your argument andrew, why ?
I would hardly profess to be an expert on the writings of Marx but, I am fully aware that 'class consciousness' is at the very heart of Marx's writings.
Yes, he did clearly state that under primitive communism classes did not exist, and they are therefore not natural.
However, he also [i]very clearly stated[/i] that 'classes' played an absolutely central and indispensable role in human society.
In fact, he went so far as to describe the [i]whole history[/i] of the [i]whole world[/i], in just one sentence. That sentence was the first sentence of the first chapter of the Communist Manifesto :
[b]"[i]The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles[/i]"[/b]
How that in anyway fits with your original comment [u]in which you challenge me for pointing out the different characteristics of different social classes[/u] by saying, quote : [i]"Middle class, working class, it's all a load of shit."[/i] is quite frankly beyond me.
Are you just taking the p1ss by quoting Marx ?
Or you some sort of intellectual Marxist who wants to enter deep and absurd polemics about the meaning of words such as 'real' or 'false'.
If the latter is true, then I'm not interested mate.
TBH I lost interest quite a while back - just wondered what you're playing at.
As a casual observer of this thread I suggest that Andrew and Ernie sit together somewhere and have a nice chat over a cup of tea and a couple of biscuits. Then you'll realise that you're both nice chaps which are pretty much 100% in agreement with each other, but have got stuck on a minor misundering on the semantics of the word 'real'. 🙂