[Closed] VW Golf R............estate!

waihiboy
its always baffled me why people spend sh*t loads on a fast car,

surely it would be more fun to have a boring car for day to day use that can tow a trailer.

then.... spend your cash on a track day car, where you can really speed!

That's a good question. I think my mountain bike is my track day car. For want of a more crude analogy. Even if I could afford a car just for the track the time and money taken to prep, transport and maintain it would eat into my mtb time too much.

The other thing to consider is first off, the appeal of a track day isn't to speed with impunity, it's to explore the limits of your car somewhere safer. And if you want to you can take pretty much any car. So if you don't mind abusing it, your silly expensive daily driver can also be your track day car.

You are talking about dead children as if it never happens.

Like this poor kid:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/father-jailed-thoroughly-avoidable-tragedy-2047733

Well that's not really due to speed, that's due to driving like a ****waffle. Shocking behaviour although I suspect that no punishment is close to how he feels day to day.

Troll mode/ he was in a Citroen Saco, max 120bhp. With 300bhp+, he wouldn't have 'run out of road' and would have completed the manoeuvre without the tragic consequences. Therefore a faster car would have been safer. /troll mode

Well people on here were talking about multiple overtakes.

But it's all driving like a ****, and it kills kids all the time. So all this mocking 'what about a child's face' stuff is in pretty ****ing poor taste.

Next time you want to 'make progress' in your stupidly fast car, take a moment and think about it. I'm outta this one.

Ah, I edited my post while you were posting

Fatality not involving stupidly fast car fails to make point that stupidly fast cars kill children.

I think I'd actually prefer roads full of people in fast cars concentrating on what they're doing (if a little quicker than some would deem safe), in a cars that they look after and give a shit about.

The guy that killed his son had previously been jailed for dangerous driving and had 3 drink driving convictions.
People like that should be banned for life

I think I'd actually prefer roads full of people in fast cars concentrating on what they're doing (if a little quicker than some would deem safe), in a cars that they look after and give a shit about.

Big assumption.

[url= http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Audi-R8-driver-involved-fatal-crash-denies/story-19983763-detail/story.html ]R8 with worn tyre involved in fatal crash[/url]. Could've been a contributory factor, could not, but you assume if you're buying an £80k car you keep an eye on your tyres.

The Porsche that killed Paul Walker was on 15+ year old tyres too.

Concentrating doesn't make you immune from crashes!

Anyway, didn't really want to get involved in the petty bickering from the driving gods on here! I think the Golf R hatchback is lovely, the estate is ****ing hideous, I maintain that neither are the 'perfect' combination of performance and cost though.

Wasn't there a study recently that said the new wave of [s]golfers[/s] cyclist were Jeremy Clarkson wannabes.

Of course it's a big assumption, you'll get idiots in all walks of life and types of cars.

Concentrating doesn't make you immune from crashing but its at least a step in the right direction.

Back to the original Golf, ticks a lot of boxes but not all for me I'm afraid. Too modern, not enough cylinders, needs proper 4wd or rwd and isn't Italian.

ps. Clarkson is a bellend and I've been cycling far longer than I've been driving and thats long enough.

njee20

The Porsche that killed Paul Walker was on 15+ year old tyres too.

Have you seen his car collection? He had several warehouses full of cars. It's not hard to imagine how something like changing the tyres on one of them might have slipped through the cracks. Combined with the fact it was his friend driving, and the common consensus that the GT is a total animal to drive and you can see an accident waiting to happen.

I think I could do 7…

If we're willy waving, I've done 10... And a Tractor... On my Road Bike (as in you pedal it, it has no engine!)... Assisted by gravity I will concede, but I came up behind a line of traffic doing 20-25mph behind a tractor, on a clear straight piece of road, I was already doing 40+mph, there was nothing coming the other way, and none of the cars had the visibility past the tractor that I had (It was towing a huge trailer covered in hay bales) as I was coming from a long way further back and could see the road was clear.

My point? I don't know... I guess it's that you don't need 300bhp and 4WD to overtake some traffic maybe! Good road position and careful forward planning means that you should be able to make good progress in most any modern car.

As for TAFKASTR calling me dull last night, each to their own. I more than understand the appeal of fast cars, and still covet owning some of them, but I just don't see the need or appeal for general road use. The roads are so heavily policed, and full of traffic, it's difficult to enjoy driving anything with a modicum of performance these days, so going back to basics brings a level of enjoyment back to driving IMO.

Fast as some of the cars posted on this thread so far are, anyone (like me) who's ridden some seriously quick bikes will understand where I'm coming from too. A 300bhp 4wd car just doesn't light many fires inside I'm afraid! I'd much rather get my jollies on a mountain bike these days... Though the guy who runs the Motorbike shop next door to me keeps offering me the keys to his Ducati 1098R with full Termi system and a remap... He's also just taken in an Aprilia RSV4 Factory as a Part Ex too, and went to throw me the keys the other day! I can't say I wasn't sorely tempted, but also I know that I'd probably lose my license before I even reached "fun" speeds on either bike... 😕

I think the Golf R hatchback is lovely, the estate is **** hideous, I maintain that neither are the 'perfect' combination of performance and cost though.

I'll concede it's a good looking hatchback, and the estate just looks really bloody awkward!

The roads are so heavily policed, and full of traffic, it's difficult to enjoy driving anything with a modicum of performance these days,

I know sometimes I don't know how I cope with it all

I know sometimes I don't know how I cope with it all

Think of the children.

Fast cars are not essential, but if you can afford one then hell, why not. Maybe the reason why so many on here don't like driving and see it as just getting from A to B is that they drive a bland, lifeless, inert Eurobox. I can understand why you'd not enjoy driving and would become pretty negative if that was the case.

For people who drive ordinary cars, then there's no appreciation how much more better a fast car which handles well really is. The difference in performance can be mindblowing and opens up a whole new load of options. Still, greater power does require greater responsibility.

Yet a 300bhp + car can easily be used to it's full potential in many situations on the road these days. I'm not talking about ragging a car around at 100% and beyond (although if you've ever done this as a teenager and suffered an accident as a consequence it does teach you a lot about driving and the limits of vehicle performance). I mean that it's perfectly possible to use 100% of the power in many driving situations, or sometimes 80%, knowing you have a further 20% to get you out of trouble if required.

I guess that's why when I do a 5 car overtake on a clear road I occasionally get flashed aggressively. To the other drivers eyes (judging from their own experience in their own car) it probably looks dangerous, but for me, having 2-3 times the power of their cars, the overtake and margin for error left in reserve makes it 100% safe.

Richmtb - That is a dull looking piece of road, where are the corners?

OP - Sorry dude, the estate is gopping.

Fast as some of the cars posted on this thread so far are, anyone (like me) who's ridden some seriously quick bikes will understand where I'm coming from too. A 300bhp 4wd car just doesn't light many fires inside I'm afraid!

I used to think like that until i was a passenger in a mates WRX Scooby round some twisty country roads 😯 . Just as thrilling as riding a motorbike (although i think part of the thrill was the fear of not actually driving).

Fret not nee-nah nee-nahs as he is a very good (safe) driver.

Have you seen his car collection? He had several warehouses full of cars. It's not hard to imagine how something like changing the tyres on one of them might have slipped through the cracks. Combined with the fact it was his friend driving, and the common consensus that the GT is a total animal to drive and you can see an accident waiting to happen.

1) it wasn't his car
2) do you end up less dead if crashes happen because one of your many performance cars suffers a component failure, as opposed it being your sole car? 😕

Totally agree re: the Porsche tyres 'slipping through the net', but that just reinforces my point. The point made was that it's better to have people who look after their performance cars on the road, I'm just pointing out that because people have a fast car doesn't mean they take better care of it and are therefore automatically 'better' to have on the roads. If someone is letting their tyres get to illegal tread depths I'd sooner they were in a 1 litre Micra than an R8...

And yes, Richmtb's road looks very dull indeed.

Dear me, rebel. One day one of those five cars you're overtaking will pull out to overtake. Or someone will come the other way "pressing on" like you. Or when you try to pull back into the gaps between the cars you're overtaking one of the drivers will do the unexpected such as brake to let you in as you brake to pull in behind. Or a tractor will pull out of a field and the driver will only look left. So many things to go wrong that if you do it long enough something will go wrong.

Objectively faster cars don't open up options because if you drive them a tiny bit faster you have significantly reduced your options. The real difference in performance is tiny. A 2l Ford Mondeo will out brake just about every Lotus ever built. The "fantastic handling" is a lot more dangerous than a bland, lifeless, inert Eurobox as any insurance company will tell you.

I could buy any car on this thread but trundle around in a bland, lifeless, inert one. If ever I feel the urge to experience anything else again I'll rent something at a track or in a forest where I'm the only one who's going to get hurt if I mess up.

njee20

1) it wasn't his car

Apparently he and Rodas shared the same storage space for their many cars. There's a video somewhere.

Maybe the reason why so many on here don't like driving and see it as just getting from A to B is that they drive a bland, lifeless, inert Eurobox.

Back to the car in question, this is exactly what it is though - even the engine is a pretty bland 4 pot turbo. I do absolutely see the attraction of a high powered sportscar, but I've never been a big fan of mixing family wagons with 300+ hp sportscars. They usually end up being quick in a straight line, but just as dull handling as the base car they came from and nearly always worse riding. VAG in particular has a long history of churning out such cars. Big power, but shit steering, shit brakes, shit ride quality, bland handling. Is this Golf going to be any different? I doubt it.

Vw v Audi fast estates.

130bhp Passat estate is quite quick enough for me, if wanted a small 4wd estate think a tdi skoda scout would be a better option than the golf R as less likely to take the bumper off in a bumpy field 😉

Dear me, rebel. One day one of those five cars you're overtaking will pull out to overtake. Or someone will come the other way "pressing on" like you. Or when you try to pull back into the gaps between the cars you're overtaking one of the drivers will do the unexpected such as brake to let you in as you brake to pull in behind. Or a tractor will pull out of a field and the driver will only look left. So many things to go wrong that if you do it long enough something will go wrong.

I agree with this. You really do have to reign yourself in when driving really high performance cars. It's so tempting to overtake simply because you can, but the risks can be high. My days of 5 car overtakes are over for sure. I'll do one at a time, perhaps 2 if I really know the road well. Any more than that could easily be my last.

Rebel you really sound like the "risk taker" that worries people who
have some idea of what they are talking about .
Get some advanced training soon for the benefit of us all.

finishthat - Member

Rebel you really sound like the "risk taker" that worries[s] people who
have some idea of what they are talking about .[/s]hand wringing, high horsing pompous wind bags who have no idea or context what they are talking about and little to worry about.
Get some advanced training soon for the benefit of us all.

How do you know he hasn't had any advanced training? I'm amazed by the people who seem to be self ordained saints of the road and criticise anyone who suggests they overtake a few cars without knowing any anything about the driver, their car, the road or conditions. Automatically assuming the poster has taken some drastic life endangering effort to overtake and to hell with the consequences when no hint has been made that this is the case.

It's almost as if these people assume this stance to justify having shit, slow, boring cars. No doubt they're probably the same people trolling motorways, overtaking at a 1mph speed difference and moving out of the way as slowly and begrudgingly as possible when they see a faster car approaching.

I overtook two cars in one go today...!

Why would he need training, he's 100% safe? Impressive considering how many people die whilst not even overtaking.

I'm fairly sure that's the first time one of the driving gods has actually claimed invincibility!

Is it wrong that I now want see the thread where the tractor has indeed pulled out in front of Rebel as he's overtaking 18 vehicles using his 300bhp to keep out of trouble and he's destroyed his car? Wouldn't wish any injuries of course.

How do you know he hasn't had any advanced training? I'm amazed by the people who seem to be self ordained saints of the road and criticise anyone who suggests they overtake a few cars without knowing any anything about the driver, their car, the road or conditions

He claims 100% safety whilst doing it? That's utter naivety speaking. No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

molgrips - Member

I overtook two cars in one go today...!

Did anyone survive?

I overtook two cars in one go today...!

Maniac! 😉

molgrips - Member

I overtook two cars in one go today...!

Yay for molgrips, he is human after all 😆

I'm not making assumptions, I'm pointing out the risks, Jimjam. However as I'm one of the critics of driving behaviour that puts others at risk I'll count myself in amongst the hand wringers. You'd be wrong to assume I don't know what I'm talking about.

No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

10 seconds? Pffft. I'm pretty sure I've overtaken 11 or 12 cars in that length of time.

10 seconds? Pffft. I'm pretty sure I've overtaken 11 or 12 cars in that length of time.

Good for you 😐

No one survived.

He claims 100% safety whilst doing it? That's utter naivety speaking. No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

Why is that naive, yes things can happen, the situation in front of you can change but with enough forward planning and observation then (barring a meteorite storm) you can predict all of these things. These are skills that an Advanced driving course can help you with. If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe (or just as safe as any other driving situation - maybe 100% was the wrong choice of phrase).

Going back to fast cars, when overtaking having over 300hp on tap means that I can use say 80% power and still overtake briskly, yet if the situation changes infront then I still have a further 20% to get me out of trouble (say in Educators example if someone making progress comes round a corner in the opposite direction ahead - although when planning an overtake you should have already considered this possibility and already made allowances). You just don't have those reserves of power or those options available in your average Eurobox.

You can try and justify the fallacy that slow cars are safer all you want but the fact is, a car that accelerates, brakes and handles better will be safer at any given speed or in any given road situation when compared with a lesser model. It's low standards of driving that are the problem, not the cars themselves and in the hands of someone who's unskilled, a 1 litre city car has just the same potential to cause damage and injury as a high powered sports car, perhaps more potential if it's going to be driven at higher speeds since a lesser car will have poor reserves of safety when it comes to handling, braking, acceleration etc.

You can try and justify the fallacy that slow cars are safer all you want but the fact is, a car that accelerates, brakes and handles better will be safer at any given speed or in any given road situation when compared with a lesser model.

Yes but what's the point in buying a fast car to drive it at the same speed as a normal one?

People buy fast cars to drive them fast, don't they?

It's not the fast car that's the issue, it's the fast driving. A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

Molgrips Member
It's not the fast car that's the issue, it's the [b]fast driving[/b]. A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

Wrong - as any experienced Traffic officer will tell you - its [b]INAPPROPRIATE SPEED[/b] that is always the issue.

molgrips
A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

More dangerous in some ways. A base spec model will have inferior brakes, smaller, harder tyres, softer suspension than a high performance version.

You also have a considerably slower over take,leaving you exposed to potential risks longer.

molgrips

People buy fast cars to drive them fast, don't they?

Only when the need/want arises. Better looking at it than looking for it.

Yes, ok maybe more dangerous. But this isn't about car safety.

Driving fast is more dangerous than driving sensibly, and you can do it in any car. Fast cars are for driving fast. If you're not going to drive fast don't buy a fast car. If you are, then it's dangerous so don't. Therefore you don't need a fast car.

You might think you can do it safely, because you're special. Well, physics and psychology are both against you I'm afraid.

If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar. I'm trying really hard to think about the last time I had a reasonably safe opportunity to overtake 5 cars in a row on a single carriageway. I know it can be done, but usually if the opportunity to overtake exists then at least one of the 5 cars in the queue (usually behind a truck or pensioner on their last legs) is likely to be thinking of giving it a go too and at least one of them is not likely to have checked their mirrors to notice if a 400 hp supercar is steaming up behind them at twice the speed. I'm sorry, but it's a recipe for a really massive shunt.

It's not just about your own judgement in that kind of situation, it's relying on the simultaneous judgement of 5 other drivers all probably thinking how they can get past the slow moving traffic themselves. You are likely to be the biggest surprise to them at that point. I don't know if you've noticed, but quite a few drivers will take massive risks in whatever they are driving.

If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe

I expect the unexpected, that's why I don't do that kind of thing! I expect someone to pull out to overtake themselves without looking in their wingmirrors for me closing at 100mph!

I'm sorry, but it's a recipe for a really massive shunt.

Absolutely!

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar

But you have a fast car so you MUST drive fast otherwise why would you buy a fast car......? So the rest of your post is far too sensible for you to actually believe. 🙄

Or maybe (despite some peoples beliefs on this thread) some people just like nice cars, like some people like nice bikes, or some people like nice watches......etc

That doesn't mean we are all mad raving loonies. I have a nice car, it has some hundreds of horse power, but I don't drive it any faster than my other cars that were 'slower', I don't overtake longer lines of traffic. I like nice cars.

Edukator
The "fantastic handling" is a lot more dangerous than a bland, lifeless, inert Eurobox as any insurance company will tell you.

A 2l Ford Mondeo will out brake just about every Lotus ever built.