[Closed] Vote "IN" camp only seem interested in economic outcome?

[img] [/img]

Wow another thread...

Care to tell us how they will be impacted?

Care to tell us how they will be impacted?

I have very grave concerns for the future of Human Rights legislation in this country if we vote to leave. To be blunt, I don't trust the government as far as I could throw Boris Johnson when it comes to ensuring that hard won statutory rights aren't rolled back in the name of "Cutting the deficit".

Be that as it may, what do you think will happen with regard to the four points you've raised if we remain in?

Are you concerned about how the proposed TTIP act would affect us too?

Sovereignty

What service does sovereignty provide or are you just making stuff up?

Increased population == [s]increased requirement for said services?[/s] increased contribution

Of course the economy (potentially) going down the pan could have a huge impact on those things too.

Really depends on a lot though, if those people are paying tax then maybe it will fund more, after 10 years what will net migration be?
There is currently a massive problem with not enough young fit healthy tax payers funding people's pensions.

It sounds like all you are listing are economic arguments...

Sovereignty is an anachronism.

this is mostly what the Brexit arguments sound like to me 😉
[img] [/img]

Increased population == increased requirement for said services?

It's a shortsighted argument to blame immigration for pressure on services.

Surely, if services are stretched because x thousand new taxpayers are demanding them, the problem lies with central government not funding adequately? Personally, I'd swap four new Trident subs to guarantee adequate services for the next thirty years, but that's just me.

mikewsmith - Member
There is currently a massive problem with not enough young fit healthy tax payers funding people's pensions.

Massively this.

Increased population == increased requirement for said services? increased contribution
FTFY

I'm voting in cos I couldn't trust this country to organise a piss up in a brewery..

if we stay at least we'll have someone looking out for us

the brexiters by and large are not a very bright bunch, who just seem to like grunting 'yeah engurland'

his is mostly what the Brexit arguments sound like to me

On the record no.
Look round the world for all of those that are heading off to go it alone.

Cameron wants to keep us in; both Galloway and Farage want us out, so I'm voting out.

Hopefully we'll vote out, and then get a nice coalition of Corbyn and Farage or something. Both people who appear to give a shit about us/our country (even if they have different views).

I'm voting in cos I couldn't trust this country to organise a piss up in a brewery..

the brexiters by and large are not a very bright bunch

potentially destroy the future of the UK

No-one wants to destroy the future of the UK. Remain voters don't think that being in the EU will actually do that, of course.

Increased population = bigger economy = more tax revenue = expanded services such as NHS, education etc. [b]Not all immigrants are benefit scroungers[/b]. It needn't be a problem. We could do with distributing the people a bit better though.

flanagaj - Member
Someone on minimum wage would actually be a net beneficiary of the state

True, but not sure what that has to do with immigration as that has a net benefit to the UK.

]I think the brexiters are thinking longer term and not just "how will it impact ME"

Works both ways, each side seems to think the other is mad.

Personally I think the ECHR on its own is enough reason to vote In, as I will be come June.

Are you honestly not concerned with the direction the EU is going? They are stuck following a plan that is not working and has never worked.

Fatalism. The EU has changed hugely over the years, no reason to assume it will not continue to change. That change needs to be steered, with us and our friends as a part of it.

Brexit = throwing baby out with the bathwater.

Population increase, I.e. Immigration, is a red herring: our 'control over our boarders' will not change wether we stay in or out of the EU. We can still control the level of immigration as we are not in shengen. Our problem is our ability to control our population/immigration levels and the fact it is so easy for immigrants to cross the continent of Europe and many boarders to get to the UK when they should stop at the first country, but our European friends and neighbours like to overlook that and let them pass to be someone else's issue to deal with. But overall immigration has been good for the uk and the appeal of the U.K. Will not subside If we vote to leave even if our ability to pick and choose who we want is no better.

Nhs? It's screwed anyway but is probably in all likelihood 34.3% more screwed if we stay in the EU.

Sovereignty for me relates to the control of our own elected government over our affairs. This is clearly diminished as a result of being in the EU.

No idea on education.

Human rights had nothing to do with the EU. It's an entirely separate issue.

Increased population = bigger economy = more tax revenue = expanded services such as NHS, education etc. Not all immigrants are benefit scroungers. It needn't be a problem. We could do with distributing the people a bit better though.

I'd totally agree with you if everyone coming paid in more than they take from the state. I am not talking welfare here either.

davidtaylforth - Member
Cameron wants to keep us in; both Galloway and Farage want us out, so I'm voting out.
Hopefully we'll vote out, and then get a nice coalition of Corbyn and Farage or something. Both people who appear to give a shit about us/our country (even if they have different views).

Nailed it.

[quote=wobbliscott said]. We can still control the level of immigration as we are not in shengen.

You are incorrect. Schengen has nothing to do with immigration controls.

All of those things will be impacted if we vote OUT so I'm not sure it makes much difference?

Personally I think that if we vote OUT we're opening our country up to the Tories selling everything off and we'll be in an even worse place!

You cannot deny that a vote "IN" will impact the above for sure.

For the better.

flanagaj
I'll repeat my argument. You are making the assumption that an individuals tax contributions > the cost to services for that person residing in the UK.
I'd totally agree with you if everyone coming paid in more than they take from the state. I am not talking welfare here either.

I'll repeat my answer. Immigrants are a net benefit to the UK.

The EU does have a central Human Rights policy, which is separate from the European Convention on Human Rights. Theresa May has suggested Brexit would potentially mean us withdrawing from both.

As for sovereignty, what does that actually mean? It's not as if we are denied a vote in the European Parliament, given that we have Euro MPs and therefore representation.

Or is this discussion more about the potential impact of TTIP?

Personally I think that if we vote OUT we're opening our country up to the Tories selling everything off and we'll be in an even worse place!

We need to get rid of the Tories which ever way we vote. Truly awful people.

legend - Member
davidtaylforth - Member
Cameron wants to keep us in; both Galloway and Farage want us out, so I'm voting out.
Hopefully we'll vote out, and then get a nice coalition of Corbyn and Farage or something. Both people who appear to give a shit about us/our country (even if they have different views).
Nailed it.

So your decision to vote leave is based on personalities?

Immigration, is a red herring: our 'control over our boarders' will not change wether we stay in or out of the EU. We can still control the level of immigration as we are not in shengen.

Being out of the EU means you can control that and you would treat EU citizens just like any other country. You would have total control of who comes here.

Of course the EU could impose a Norway style system of allowing migration in exchange for free trade. That is of course an unknown and no camp can argue the exact outcome of that.

In, here. I've no wish to be transported back to 1950 and ruled over by the likes of Johnson and Farridge and the idiot from Windsor, thank you very much.

At least you have the ability to vote the elected government out in this country, unlike those in the EU.

You are making the assumption that an individuals tax contributions > the cost to services for that person residing in the UK.

Of course the EU could impose a Norway style system of allowing migration in exchange for free trade. That is of course an unknown and no camp can argue the exact outcome of that.

We can be certain we wont get free trade without compliance - of course their is enough doubt there for a Brexiter to ignore this fact

I'll repeat my answer. Immigrants are a net benefit to the UK.

Allthepies, Shengen means people can move over boarders with no checks does it not, until the cone to the uk then where there are boarder controls. But what it does mean is that people can move through Europe, crossing many countries to the uk, as most want to come to the uk, but granted, it's probably more of an issue for assylum seekers. But it's irrelevant anyway as I don't think it's a problem wether we're in or out.

At least you have the ability to vote the elected government out in this country, unlike those in the EU.

Well maybe you should turn up and vote the next time your MEP is up for election?

The impact of mass immigration is real. My daughter started school two years ago and had to go to her third choice school due to intake numbers. The school that she started had to accept double the number of kids despite there not being a classroom to accept them. The solution - stick sixty kids into one classroom that previously held thirty and run two classes with two teachers side by side. Huge numbers of these families are Eastern European. Lots of the schools facilities including art and craft areas, open space and the trim trail area have now gone so that the ring numbers can be squeezed in.

The EU does have a central Human Rights policy, which is separate from the European Convention on Human Rights. Theresa May has suggested Brexit would potentially mean us withdrawing from both.

We's still be a member of Europe though, so I'd have thought we'd have to adhere the human rights laws

Well I was going to vote for staying in, but now the OP has so eloquently and thoughtfully explained the foolishness of that action, I've changed my mind completely, and I'm siding with the people I'd much rather see re-writing our future constitution when we're thankfully out of Europe

*Stands to attention, salutes the union jack and sings the national anthem to PM Boris*

I'm with these guys....

[img] [/img]

So your decision to vote leave is based on personalities?

Yes, I can't be bothered to understand or read about their policies or beliefs. They just seem like stand up guys though.

Cameron wants to keep us in; both Galloway and Farage want us out

If we are doing it by personality, Murdoch swings it for me. He's such a great guy.

Boring troll is boring

Technically - as argued by the UK govt not Brexiters- we don't need to be in the EHCR to be in the EU

Its unclear, though the UK govt argues we could, as to whether we could withdraw

There is something rather tragic about us giving human rights to the Europeans then us leaving said rights because we cannot adhere to the standards we once gave the world

Its ****ing embarrassing tbh.

Evidence?

Knock yourself out as I can tell you want actual facts here and they will persuade you.