[Closed] Vegan's arses

I've always wondered - do vegans breast feed?

Do we have a full house on Vegan Bingo yet?

Do they eat organically fertilised fruit and veg?

A former flatmate of mine was a vegan, the toilet was out of bounds for a good hour after one of his several visits a day and by god he could drop the silent but violents. We gave him a pretty hard time about it! Got him eating fish now at least, he's much healthier looking.

http://www.vegetablecruelty.com/

Oh, that's fantastic.

Got him eating fish now at least, he's much healthier looking.

Whether you're a vegan, vegetarian or omnivore, it's quite possible to have a healthy balanced diet or an unhealthy crap one. (Arguably) the more restrictive the diet, the more effort you need to put in to get the nutrients you need. I don't doubt that there are a lot of sickly vegans, but that doesn't mean veganism is inherently unhealthy.

Bollocks all meat eaters are a picture of radiant vitality..If i had the energy I would post up pics to prove it ....need to rush to the toilet...hope I make it

Hope you have the strength to get the door open.

For complete thread****tery, might I point out the erroneously placed apostrophe in the title?

Unless there's a vegan out there with several (which may, of course, explain the olfactory issues generated by the OP's daughter.)

Yes breast feeding is a dumb question

are there many inorganic fertiliser machines?

Given that organic in terms of food production is usually taken to mean produced directly by biological entities not "made in a lab", I'd go so far as to say that there are a lot of non organic (as opposed to chemically inorganic such as potassium nitrate) fertilisers available - the machines used for dispersal are I [I]assume[/I] the same.

The question there in though is, how is using manure to fertilise fruit and veg ethically different to drinking milk or eating meat or eggs given that it's largely produced by those same commercially farmed animals?

I'm entirely open to being told that all fertilisers used for organic produce are produced entirely from the compost of organically produced florae but I doubt it.

After being anoited with the nickname of "skunk boy" for all the wrong reasons 😉 my son narrowed the diet time bomb down to a over fondness for soya deserts.

OMITN - I spent a good minute pondering the matter. I went for that based upon it being about the arses belonging to vegans as a collective, but in the knowledge I was taking a bit of a gamble. Vegans' arses, in hindsight, would be my choice now, although I'm still not 100% sure.

how is using manure to fertilise fruit and veg ethically different to drinking milk or eating meat or eggs given that it's largely produced by those same commercially farmed animals?

I am not sure how you can equate using the shit of an animal to killing it and eating it.

Could you elaborate on your thinking here?

because if we all stopped eating cow and pig and holstein-fresian moo-juice, there would be no 5hit to spray on the carrots?

or do they only fertilise vegan carrots with dartmoor and new forest pony poo?

I am not sure how you can equate using the shit of an animal to killing it and eating it.

Could you elaborate on your thinking here?

i’m guessing animal welfare, shit collected from an intensive farming system under cover where animals are fed and watered without freedom to roam the countryside in a utopian idyll? therefore the animal is there producing shit under duress for the benefit of humans which i guess to a vegan is an abhorrent notion?
i may be wrong 🙂

I don't think red meat does us much good at all. Iron, Vit D/B12 is available elsewhere from sources that don't rot in your bowel.

If the complaint against meat (arguable to a far greater extent) eggs or milk is that it's morally unpleasant to produce them commercially - regardless of how animal friendly those methods of production may be - thensurely that also extends to other things produced by that same method?

I fully accept that cows don't produce milk naturally all the time without some interference and that hens don't lay eggs if you don't keep removing the "old" ones but nor do they produce commercially viable sources of manure when not farmed. It is a naturally occurring byproduct but it wouldn't be produced at all were it not for the farming for other purposes.

Were it not for the financial value of the other produce being greater than the manure it could be suggested the farming was done for the manure and the eggs and milk were by product.

Also the manure (chicken and pigs in particular) is cleared from sheds not hoovered off fields, and is therefore largely sourced from the least ethical farming sources. I'm not sure I've eve seen "freedom food " or similar certified manure but I'm happy to be corrected of that distinction is readily made.

Vegans will always ignore any direct links between the food they eat and farmed animals.

It is just about impossible to be truly vegan in the UK.

However, the strangest ones are the veggies who say they are veggie because they object to animals being slaughtered to feed us and then go on and drink milk and eat butter. 🙄

Were it not for the financial value of the other produce being greater than the manure it could be suggested the farming was done for the manure and the eggs and milk were by product.

Excellent 🙂 Not heard that one before. The vegan bingo sheet needs a new square: "If people didn't eat meat, we'd have no fertiliser to grow vegetables for all the vegetarians to eat".

Avoid eating the flesh of animals if you so prefer, but please don't think it makes any significant contribution to animal welfare.

More to consider would be the global impact of having those fresh vegetables available every day with all the associated airmiles and disruption to local "non-western" agrinomics, or to consider the exploitation of foodstuffs (quinoa being a good recent example) such that they become more valuable as a cash crop than a local staple so the diet of the producing country suffers because of the whim of a veganist trend food.

But oh yes, keep on shaking that moralistic stick at every opportunity - but I challenge any single on of you to last the winter on locally (or at least EU) sourced vegan produce.

Vegans will always ignore any direct links between the food they eat and farmed animals.

I think you'll find the opposite is true. The vast majority of vegans are only too aware of the links between what they eat/consume and animals. But if it's something they can't do much about, then it's not worth worrying about. Think I've said before on these threads that IMO veganism is not a black and white position, but a way of living that aims towards a cruelty free lifestyle, even if that is impossible in the purest sense.

What I cant understand is why folk are so upset about the odd guff here and there, every now and then.

Vegans will always ignore any direct links between the food they eat and farmed animals.

Amazing how many get upset when told that lots of wine and beer is not vegetarian because of things like finings

Amazing how many get upset when told that lots of wine and beer is not vegetarian because of things like finings

HOUSE!!!!!

Given that organic in terms of food production is usually taken to mean produced directly by biological entities not "made in a lab", I'd go so far as to say that there are a lot of non organic

But oh yes, keep on shaking that moralistic stick at every opportunity

*for clarity yes I am taking the piss, no I haven't been hectored, pilloried or preached to by vegans despite knowing a few and actually going for a meal with them. (not saying they don't exist but the only preachy people I suffer from tend to be more interested in my immortal soul rather than the state of my colon)

"If people didn't eat meat, we'd have no fertiliser to grow vegetables for all the vegetarians to eat".

There are plenty of non-animal-product fertilisers available, and widely in use, just most of them wouldn't qualify for use in organic produce.

As for whether there would be manure available if we all became vegetarians I don't doubt people would still farm certain animals - let's face it they're not only used for food - but they'd probably be farmed in the most commercially viable way possible and their manure more desirable than their milk or eggs (if we were vegan not vegetarian).

It's not a criticism, I'm picky about where my for comes from on moral grounds but not so much as to restrict my diet in an all ________ is bad ________ so I won't eat any, I just accept the are better and worse ways of doing things and, where possible I try to stick to the better ones.

I think it may (or may not) be the case that if we all ate veggies only with (or without) some form of non animal fertiliser, the planet would not support the current population level (or it might). This could be a good thing (or possibly not).

brassneck - Member
Amazing how many get upset when told that lots of wine and beer is not vegetarian because of things like finings
HOUSE!!!!!

I suppose I should clarify "how many" is [was] two, sufficiently militant and preachy as to insist on bringing their own cutlery and plates when visiting because the ones in our house were used for meat on occasion yet refused point blank to check if their beverage of choice was vegetarian.

Also lots is significantly less year on year as it's easier and cheaper to use the chemically produced stuff than oxblood and swimbladder extract.

more interested in my immortal soul rather than the state of my colon)

sufficiently militant and preachy as to insist on bringing their own cutlery and plates when visiting because the ones in our house were used for meat

If that's true, they would of quite quickly and clearly be told to GTF.

Poo-related fertiliser is used, I expect, primarily because it's there already as a by-product of the farming process. I doubt very much that a situation would ever arise where farmers would keep animals solely for their manure (unless Heston Blumenthal started a craze for vegetables fertilised by lemurs or something). If hypothetically that natural source was removed, the vast majority of farmers would just buy in bulk whatever was cheapest.

However, the strangest ones are the veggies who say they are veggie because they object to animals being slaughtered to feed us and then go on and drink milk and eat butter.

You know you can get milk from cows without killing them, yes? Wow, wait till you hear about how we get wool!

oh yes, keep on shaking that moralistic stick at every opportunity

Who's done that, then? Keep on attacking a situation at every opportunity that hasn't actually happened on this thread, won't you.

sufficiently militant and preachy as to insist on bringing their own cutlery and plates when visiting because the ones in our house were used for meat

That's a bit odd. Stuff that's hard to clean like frying pans or barbecue grills I can of understand, but that sounds more like OCD than vegetarian. Do they carry little alcohol wipes for the door handles too?

I am a recent Vegan convert, I grew up on, and my Family still operate a farm, I have no problem with ethical farming and the eating of meat.

My reasons were entirely selfish, nothing to do with animal welfare.

You know you can get milk from cows without killing them, yes? Wow, wait till you hear about how we get wool!

Cougar - Your ignorance knows no bounds!

What do you think happens to nearly all the little boy cows that are born in a dairy herd? Do you think they are sent to a nice little farm to see out the rest of their days and die of old age?

Cougar - Your ignorance knows no bounds!

What do you think happens to nearly all the little boy cows that are born in a dairy herd? Do you think they are sent to a nice little farm to see out the rest of their days and die of old age?

Would it be helpful if I point out that my childhood home was a dairy farm before we further this discussion?

She was an unpleasant example of a human being (also into fairies and alternative meds, though that's nothing to do with her being unpleasant) and he was a coward. I do remember the pure glee in his eyes when he thought he'd managed to sneak a burger at a bbq, she caught him and frog matched him home, screaming at and berating him like you might a child that just tortured a cat. Suffice to say I'm no longer with the lady who had such friends.

These threads truly suck.
It's usually the case that those who don't really question the consequences of anything that they do too often are desperate to catch out those who do, on any little thing they possibly can.
Presumably to justify their viewpoint, or perhaps lack of viewpoint.

Anything humans can do to lighten their footprint on the huge strain we as a species create on world resources is surely a good thing?

There isn't a single one of us walking this earth who is morally whiter than white (except maybe Felicity Kendal) so if you are doing something that isn't entirely selfish, then more power to ya...
🙂

bob_summers - Member

If you think vegans smell, try using a service station toilet at 9am. You think the people producing that stench are vegans?

😀 So much this^^^

Would it be helpful if I point out that my childhood home was a dairy farm before we further this discussion?

So why would you think that no cows are harmed in the production of milk? 🙄

What do you think happens to nearly all the little boy cows that are born in a dairy herd?

So why would you think that no cows are harmed in the production of milk?

Where was that actually said?

Short of owning your own cow, the collateral damage is unavoidable, other than going vegan. Couldn't do that, plastic shoes, just try them.. and too many cars I like sitting in have leather seats...
However I've never claimed to be motivated primarily by animal welfare myself, and whilst I don't eat meat I have no problem with others doing so provided it was well looked after. Fact is, I just don't really like it.

I have STW-scientific level proof it's genetic too - family of 5, 4 veggies and one (youngest, 4) only wants to eat sausages. And not THOSE sausages daddy, the NICE ones..

Where was that actually said?

You know you can get milk from cows without killing them, yes? Wow, wait till you hear about how we get wool!

Also lots is significantly less year on year as it's easier and cheaper to use the chemically produced stuff than oxblood and swimbladder extract.

Pretty sure 6X has added rat to give it a kick. I just try not to think about 😉

You know you [b]can[/b] get milk from cows without killing them, yes?

is not equal to:

no cows are harmed in the production of milk?

.. but carry on.

You know you can get milk from cows without killing them, yes?

is not equal to:

no cows are harmed in the production of milk?

.. but carry on.

It is in the context of modern dairy farming.

I've always wondered - do vegans breast feed?*

I just put this question to the nearest vegan (Mrs MR) and her look was withering, pitying and incredulous in equal measures.

Somewhat like my reactions to the 'discussion' about cyclists hosted by Alan Titchmarsh with Christopher Biggins and a load of old Daily Mail readers! What can I say?

So why would you think that no cows are harmed in the production of milk?

I didn't say that. I'm saying that it's not the same thing. If I let you kick me in the shins, can I stab you in the face and we're even? Your argument is black and white and, as ever, it's Not That Simple. By interpolation your only valid lifestyle choices here are "omnivore" or "vegan and a member of PETA."

Of course there are issues around some dairy farming, and I don't doubt that there are some horrendous practices employed by some farmers. I'm also pretty sure that there are plenty of ethical farmers who care greatly about their livestock. I was actually on a dairy farm a couple of months back and watched the cows being milked; they looked like pretty well looked-after, contented bovines to me. I expect they'd look a little more concerned if Pete had been sat there quietly pulling beef out of them. So to speak.

Anyway. What do [i]you[/i] think happens to male calves? I can tell you if you like. Do you think they plop out of mummy and the farmer goes "blast, another boy" and ****s it over the head like Pontius Pilate?

6 days and on a ferry to france for a nice one way holiday