Forum menu
The trouble is people like Russ Andrews have spouted huge claims about his wares but he does sell on a basis that if you don't like it return it and get a full refund. Unfortunately many a poor sap has been drawn in by him and then then whole bullshit just snowballs and is very very sad. Cables do change the sound of a system and so really should be auditioned to see what suits you but I honestly don't believe in paying huge amounts of money for them even though I run a very high end Naim amp set up. There's too much bullshit snobbery in hifi just as there is in bloody mountain bikes so find what you like and enjoy - always works for me.
hadge speaks very good sense.. FWIW I use Van Den Hul 'the bridge' £8.50 per meter.. it's ace for my circumstances (even more so cos it was a freebee)
Rich - I was thinking of getting the Uniqute for the living room as I rarely get any time for serious listening in the dedicated music room.
What do you think to it?
Does anyone actually know what specifically it is about different cables which makes one sound 'better' than another... I'm quite intrigued.
Is it to do with the stray resistance, capacitance and inductance?
Or are all high-end amps like the Naims with unstable output amplifiers? Actually, I'm a little intrigued about this as well, what does it actually gain them to do this? Apart from selling more speaker cable obviously? Is it less distortion? Greater bandwidth? Flatter frequency response? Anyone?
Also, with this kind of setup, does it mean you have to always use exactly the same length of cable for all installations?
Apparently Bryston recommend Van Damme cables...
Wharfedale did a test once using 3 sets of identical Diamond speakers to a sighted panel, one pair painted red, one white, and one yellow, but told the panel that they had differences. The panels opinions was that the red pair sounded warm, the yellow pair lean, and the white pair bright.
Another double-blind test pitted a turntable against a CD player, in various combinations. When the combinaton was the CD player versus the CD player at a slightly higher volume, the listening panel liked the higher volume.
Does anyone actually know what specifically it is about different cables which makes one sound 'better' than another... I'm quite intrigued
Placebo
OFTLOG
[img] 
[/img]
Part of my job is in professional audio - stadiums, theatres etc - some of it gigs, the majority permanent install - I often design the systems.
Not really the same problem domain as hi-fi though is it?
For all those who think I'm some kind of gear obsessed freak with too much money, here's my setup:
Marantz something CD player, reduced from £300 to £120
Cambridge Audio C500 preamp £99
CA Power Amps x2, one for £99 and one for £30 from ebay
£50 CA interconnect
Some £150 speakers, forget the make but the model is F150. Suspect one of those once-good names recycled by Richer Sounds.
QED Silver Anniversary cable £5/m
Cheapest Apollo rack £80 (bought simply as an item of furniture but did improve the sound)
I'd get laughed off any hifi forum with that lot. But I do like how it sounds and I reckon it's FAR better than anything else for the money.
As for why bi-wiring works... I understood that there's a difference between a crossover and a filter... by removing that little link between the two sets of speaker terminals you're converting the crossover into two filters, one high pass and one low pass.. no?
Plus I seem to remember reading that some drivers will be damaged by being given the wrong frequencies, and some will just ignore them.. so in some speakers there will be no components between the amp and the driver. But it's all a long time ago. I did the bi-wiring and amping just to see IF it made any difference, not believing it would. And honestly, it was not some subtle change (like the interconnects were), it was dramatic and blatantly obvious to anyone with a good ear.
Anyone near Cardiff can come and listen, from August onwards 🙂
Elfinsafety - Member
take a valium elf
If only! Mm... Valiuum.Do you know how hard it is to get hold of that stuff? It's easier to get hold of Crack, Smack and just about anything else!
Ask your GP kindly mate 😉
Does anyone actually know what specifically it is about different cables which makes one sound 'better' than another... I'm quite intrigued.Is it to do with the stray resistance, capacitance and inductance?
I think so, yes. If a cable has resistance, capacitance and inductance (which it does) then those qualities affect the sound. Plus on a molecular level the crystal structure and impurities will have an affect on how those electrons travel. After all they are waves as we all know. Imagine sending waves down a narrow water channel, and then dumping some rocks in the channel. Affects the wave propagation, doesn't it?
Production Testing, which involves much of the science that elfin thinks we lack.
No I din't say that. I just said there are those selling snake-oil, as well as people who are deluded as to their genuine ability to hear every tiny nuance of sound. I din't include NAIM in my condemnation of the purveyors of finest bullshit. Some British hi-fi gear is amazing. Years ago I heard some Quad system some feller had had for years; blew me away how good it was. And were I rich enough, I've no doubt I'd have some nice kit myself. What I wouldn't be doing, is bunging £20,000+ worth of bits in the front room of a cheaply-built Barrat box with thin walls. Would be a complete waste of time and money. Be like buying a spensive bike just to ride to the shops. 🙂
I have a set up not dissimilar to Molgrips, in terms of price. Sounds great in my flat. I've heard 'better', but what I have does me fine.
I have thought about the bi-amping thing for a while mind. Could do with a better amp anyway, so what Molgrips has sounds pretty much spot-on.
I won't be spending thousands of pounds on interconnects... 🙂
as well as people who are deluded as to their genuine ability to hear every tiny nuance of sound.
racist
http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html
But Elf is quite right - your room is an often overlooked but vital component of your system. But it's often one that can't be changed. Unlike say riding ability or photographic ability 🙂
racist
Not racist, Yunki. 🙁
I had a flat with concrete floors and my hifi sounded pretty good.
We then moved to a house with suspended wooden floors and it sounded pants.
We now live in a house with concrete floors again and I am 😀
Your listening room plays a big part in the overall sound.
borderline at best elf..
I went to a hifi show recently. Not a single woman and appaling music in every room.
😀
Quite like the 'racist' accusation with absolutely no justification though. Good work!
^^^^
You managed to find some Valium mate? 😆
Not a single woman
Ah, I think it was B+O or someone, employed only women as product testers for their speakers, as apparently women have better hearing on average, than men. Ironically most women don't really seem to care much about 'hi-fi', and leave that to the boys with their toys... 🙂
No Hohum. GPs round here won't prescribe Mother's Little Helper™ for a prolonged period, following massive addiction problems throughout the 70s and 80s. If you're lucky, you'll get a course for a certain period, then nowt, unless you have severe anxiety etc.
Which is the right attitude, imo.
How many of you have worked as hi-fi designers/engineers?
Thought so.
TurnerGuy - Member
However he also pointed out that the designer would not voice the speaker (for those who don't just use computers but listen) using the speaker biwired and would also use fairly normal cable like the Van Damme.
Jean Claude Van Damme designed hifi?
molgrips... the impurities in the cable are already taken into account by the resistance, in fact, that is what effectively defines the resistance of the material, along with electron availability/mobility and fun and games like that.
As for the R, C and L being the source of this issue, I'm not convinced. I'd be more inclined to agree if the values of each of them weren't so darned tiny for a length of speaker cable, and also if the differences weren't so small between cables. Now, while the cables will most definitely have a filtering effect at some frequency, the point where they'd have this effect is so far outside the audible spectrum that it shouldn't make any difference, up in the MHz range as far as I can see. There is a possibility that some tiny phase differences might creep back down towards the audio spectrum, but it would be in the region of less than 1 degree of phase difference, which would be difficult to resolve. I'd guess moving your head by about 1mm would make more difference!
There has to be more to it than this...
Good work!
why thankyou! 🙂
Ah, I think it was B+O or someone, employed only women as product testers for their speakers, as apparently women have better hearing on average, than men.
Which is a great irony, given that B+O stuff generally only looks good, and that's where it's talents end...
You're welcome! 🙂
I do like a bit of totally unfounded accusations of racism. Like when I publicly called my own mother a racist because she refuses to have owt to do with computers. 😀
My friends were a bit confused.
'But Elf, don't you mean 'technophobe'?
No, [i]racist[/i].
'???'
My mum weren't too bothered. She was too busy tucking into her dinner. 😆
Gave me a clip round the ear later though. 😳
I like the carbon fibre plug housings, that stop resonance or something!
My place does radars that operate at 24ghz, and all they ever use us plain old 7/0.2
I got really sucked into the russ andrews catalogue, a fantastic read, and I especially liked the complete lack of graphs or numbers.
it's just a lot simpler and less of a mouthful than saying that you were being generally extraordinarily bigoted and making generalisations about the mental capacity of them what likes to spend a long time appreciating the sound what their wireless makes..
racist is quicker and I knew you'd understand..
but yeah 'racist' is a good general insult.. especially when hurled at your dog for peeing on the lino in the kitchen..
HiFi systems are just network diagrams, methods of reproducing recorded sounds, of course they all sound exactly the same, how foolish to think altering as much as just one component would make a noticeable difference to the sound reproduced.
That is why this:
sounds identical to this:
[img] 
[/img]
am I right or rong?
I think 'narcissist' is a better accusation of Fred here...
Which is a great irony, given that B+O stuff generally only looks good, and that's it's talents end...
You've owned B+O stuff then have you?
My little Beomaster 3500 receiver is great; has a better sound than amps costing a good bit more which I've heard, in spite of having less 'power'.
The way I've always thought of it is that blokes treat hifi kit like women treat moistoirisers and the like. Play to peoples desires, add pseudo science plus some fancy marketing and you're onto a winner.
I'm a hifi enthusiast but also a professional electronic engineer and there's so much bull on this subject it's untrue. Spend your money on some decent speakers, a simple amp and some mains cable for the speakers. And go spend the rest of your money on something more fulfilling.
You've owned B+O stuff then have you?
Yes actually, of various generations passed down from deluded grandparents. Each itteration has had a stay of a few days in the living room before being relegated to PC speaker use in the study. Each of these has cost a lot more than my Denon/TEAC CD/DAC, Arcam amp and Castle speaker set up, and hasn't come close.
I accept it looks nice, but it really is form over function. If I want something to look nice, I'll buy an ornament.
you could buy one of their banana phones...
If you run your hifi at low volume, getting nowhere near max current for your cables, surely there's little to worry about.
Well Zokes, funnily enough my Beomaster sounds better (to me) than my Denon amp, which cost relatively around the same amount.
So, our listening tastes are different. Maybe one of us has duff hearing... 😉
I can still hear ultrasonic cat scarers. Im awesome! I should have all your stuff.
Maybe one of us has duff hearing...
Must be you - all the background hubub of your great city clouding your hearing 😉
At low volumes I admit teh B&O stuff is quite nice, but I've yet to hear one that sounds as composed as a similarly priced 'proper' hifi setup at any sort of decent level. Then again, living in London you're probably in a shoebox, so I guess that matters not (more 😉 )
Don't forget to keep those cables off the floor and isolated from vibration but without the signal becoming inter-modulated by the static electrical field differential between the cable and floor.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/81176
Anyway, enough about cables... I was [i]so[/i] very impressed with Russ Andrews' power cables that I upgraded my kettle and toaster with his [url= http://www.russandrews.com/product-13A-fuses-DCT-treated-1019.htm ]DCT fuses[/url]. Tea and crumpets will never be the same again, such clarity of flavour, such depth of texture!
tee hee!
What's that old saying? A fool and his money are soon parted??
I'm going to wire my kettle up with some of this stuff:
What's that old saying? A fool and his money are soon parted??
True audiophools shop here: http://www.nathanmarciniak.com/elemental/
Just love that kettle cable . . . . which gets plugged into a £2 MK wall socket . . . wired to a consumer unit with 50p/m twin+earth . . . wired to . . . just how far back up electricity supply do some fanatics go ?
many of these mains cables are designed to suppress the interference that things like fridges are injecting onto your mains supply.
It is not unheard of to have a seperate ring main to feed hifi's, for the enthusiasts.
However surely a decent power supply will filter a lot of this mush out/be unaffected by it?
Elf is quite right - your room is an often overlooked but vital component of your system. But it's often one that can't be changed.
I agree in part with this. Although you can change your room - I helped a mate pull out a stud wall and rebuild it in breezeblock because he didn't want his speakers near a stud wall. We did this before he even moved in to the house so there were clearly no before/after tests but I can well understand why he'd want it done.
Maybe though, he could have just tuned his room (and system) with [url= http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm ]Machina Dynmica's Brilliant Pebbles[/url]?