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Again, if that genuinely worried you - you would be better off just armouring your house.
Right so how much armour do you put on a house to make it capable of hunting wild game?
lol wut.
Would you use a pump action shotgun, glock or an AR15 for hunting elk?
Or are you going to swing a great big ****ing deer rifle around in your house, when being burgled?
Does this men the all the Ar15 variants are not actually Ar15s because they do not have the automatic fire option either?
AR-15 is the civilian (semi-auto) version of the m16/m4 essentially as far as my limited knowledge tells me.
Would you use a pump action shotgun, glock or an AR15 for hunting elk?
There are plenty of AR15 varients that would be capable of that...
But I am getting on the wrong side of the argument here.
Me think guns bad
Watching John Wick for the first time.
Just sleep with a pencil next to your bed. #homesecuritysorted
And they have long barrels, weigh 10lb and fire 7.62 and will pretty much make an utter mess of your house and anyone behind a light wall.
Brilliant idea.
Whyyyyy. The whole idea is bonkers.
Tom_W1987 - MemberAnd they have long barrels, weigh 10lb and fire 7.62 and will pretty much make an utter mess of your house and anyone behind a light wall.
Yup. Like I say, wrong tool for home defence. And wrong tool for hunting. And wrong tool for absolutely anything apart from fighting a war, blazing away cheap walmart bullets at the range/back lot, or standing around feeling awesome because you're a big man with a big gun. And yet it's the US's most popular rifle (in fact 4 out of the top 5 most popular rifles are an AR platform rifle)
Not that there's anything wrong with that, just don't excuse it by saying "home defence", it's like buying yourself a rail dragster and saying it's to drive to the shops.
And if you feel like you have to lie about your reasons for buying it, maybe you should think again about the purchase. If your home ever does get invaded, you'll wish you'd got that Remington Police or M&P the shop told you to get.
ninfan - MemberDo they now...
Interesting that US burglary rates are lower than UK though, isnt it?
Wasn't there a thread where we kept our resident fascist troll holed up?
Who let the bugger out?
Even if they do have less burglary I'd rather have more stuff nicked than people murdered seems a decent trade off.
Funnily we’re talking guns and I had a couple of conversations today with normal ‘Mercins about how they would like to come to London but were put off due to the immentient risk of dying in a Muslim terror attack.
I did point out that they would be much more at risk of looking left rather than right at the roadside when in London. The sarcasm and appreciation of what relative risk was missed on them.
So much of the rest of our conversation here is overblown about the risks of gun crime in the US.
Overblown?
Europe 0.027 deaths per 100 000 due to terror
US 10.54 gun deaths per 100 000
Not even comparable, Yanks really do have their heads in cloud cuckoo land if they are scared of UK terror risk.
Yes, I know that.
You shouldn't really be shooting elk in the USA with. 223 though. The minimum is.. 243 or 6mm.
.308 seems to be the go to calibre for largish game in the US if you want one gun to cover most uses.
243 in the UK generally centrefire in the us
So much of the rest of our conversation here is overblown about the risks of gun crime in the US.
Stat after Vegas shooting was you are more likely to die from a gun in Nevada than in a car crash.
It's a significant number of lives being ended for no good reason. At some point in the future people will be Sat in front of inquiries and in court rooms trying to explain their actions in terms of selling and gun laws. It's the same as smoking
Ninfan the interesting difference between us and UK burglary rates may be down to the difference between how the us and UK define a burglary:
"The breaking and entering the house of another in the night time, with intent to commit a felony therein, whether the felony be actually committed or not.[4][5][6]"
Will produce a lot fewer offences than section 9 of the theft act which covers any building at any time of day and some shoplifting.
Cranboy, you're engaging ninfan using logic, you're crazy man - don't do it. You weren't in the Brexit thread man, you don't know!
US 10.54 gun deaths per 100 000Not even comparable, Yanks really do have their heads in cloud cuckoo land if they are scared of UK terror risk.
See this is a good example of how the data is rarely used correctly. That figure of 10.54 includes suicides and isn't remotely the figure for gun homicides, which is what we are talking about.
The US gun homicide rate is 3.6 per 100,000, still considerably higher than the UK's 0.06 but relative to other countries it's nothing like as high. Argentina's rate is very similar, I don't know why more isn't made of that.
He clearly put gun "deaths" not homicides so that isnt the statistics being used incorrectly it is you not reading correctly.
Argentina's rate is very similar, I don't know why more isn't made of that.
Because they dont claim to be a superpower setting an example/invading the rest of the world and are a considerably less developed country...
Tom I'm not certain the difference is down to definition, it's hard to pin down what burglary is in America from Google , it may well vary from State to state . Crime stats between nations are always hard to cross compare because of different definitions and ways of recording offences. See how the neo Nazis twist sweeden in to being the rape capital of the world.
That figure of 10.54 includes suicides
So it should as every study shows easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.
So it should as every study shows easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.
Yes we’ve been through this already. Gun homicide is totally different to gun suicide. On is a reflection of how violent a country is the other how unhappy it is.
Guns aren’t a problem in any country just as Switzerland shows (btw what is the suicide rate in Switzerland?) Gun homicides are the problem but even then that’s not a really a factor of gun ownership (as again Switzerland shows) but rather of wealth inequality. This is demonstrated by the Gini Coeffecient.
As for Argentina not being a super power, so what, does that make their gun homicide problem less of a problem?
geetee1972 - MemberGuns aren’t a problem in any country just as Switzerland shows
What?
More suicides are committed in Switzerland using guns per capita than anywhere else in Europe.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/suicide-rates-maryland-rural-urban-firearms-guns-johns-hopkins-united-states-a7898951.html ]Independent article[/url]
There are about 32,000 deaths from guns a year in the United States, of which some 60 per cent are suicides, three per cent are accidents and the rest are homicides.
Crankboy
Guess what happens if you rely on Wikipedia for your legal definitions rather than the definition in the FBI’s uniform crime report statistics:
More suicides are committed in Switzerland using guns per capita than anywhere else in Europe.
But how does Switzerland’s actual overall suicide rate look compared with its neighbours?
every study shows easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.
that isn’t what the studies you posted before showed, they showed that there was an association between the two, correlation not causation.
But how does Switzerland’s actual overall suicide rate look compared with its neighbours?
It's higher.
its higher
Fake Noos!
Most recent OECD stats:
[img] 
[/img]
Rates in Austria and France are higher (Germany and Italy lower) Switzerland is pretty close to the OECD average.
You’ll also note that despite the aforementioned gun suicide rates in the US, their suicide rate is still below France (one could postulate that given the healthcare etc. situation, you would expect the US suicide to top most of the countries with free healthcare systems anyway)
Ninfan so still narrower than section 9 and was the FBI's data the set used in the comparison ? Do Americans report and record thefts from sheds as burglary or theft or not at all?
I live in the US and many of the people I work with are convinced that if they do not keep guns in their houses then countries like North Korea or Iran will sail across and invade and they will be defenceless. Mind you they are all pretty terrified of everyone else in the country, other countries as well as their own government who they also believe will at the drop of a hat come into their house and imprison them...
Many of these people are very educated but years of indoctrination has made them a bit odd...
Record number of people shot & killed by Police in America last year 1000
And then remember the Vegas shooter with the mod to turn his rifle into a machine gun, the makers of that bump stock are suing the hotel he fired from !
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/bump-stocks-interest/index.html
ninfan - MemberFake Noos!
I'm working from raw data from 2014.
It is substantially higher.
You should check your facts more carefully.
"You should check your facts more carefully"
And definitions.
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=321