Today the unions have anounced a day of action in March to make a political point about the cuts made by the con-dems, some of the unions in the local authorities are also threatening to strike to protect jobs, now how the hell is that going to protect jobs.
Seems as if the unions are just affraid of loosing members and are just hyping things up, to keep themselves in the media.
Jobs must go to save money, thats capitalism for you.
Discuss.
The tories will make us stronger we have people joining every week 😕
Its not just about jobs.
the time of unions came to a end when the witch thatcher and her yankee henchman destroyed the miners.
take away the a mans right to fight for a better standard of living and you take away a bit of the man.
im not joining in this one as you can telegraph all the posts 🙂
but
I found out today that neither the RMT nor the NUT are affiliated to the Labour Party. Surprised by that.
As far as the NHS is concerned, I'm with the Unions.
The ConDem reforms have the potential to seriously disrupt acute care services. Spouting platitudes about competition (largely code for handing stuff over to Serco [i]et al[/i]) doesn't form the basis of a coherent health policy.
As for being out of a job.... perhaps nurses should simply copy the bankers - and threaten to leave.
Besides, who is going to staff all these multiple & competing entities? ❓
Seems as if the unions are just affraid of loosing members and are just hyping things up, to keep themselves in the media
yes they are not at all bothered about their members loosing their jobs, having their pensions rights changed, having their salaries frzxen whilst inflation rises. The givernment tells us we are all in it together whilst capitualting at the doors of the bankers [who aremore to blame than the union worlers paying the price]and are still getting the same bonuses they always did. No principles or injustice involved just the thirst for the publicity ;it is a perceptive shout.
What Ton said as well
Reckon there will be a 'second coming' of Unions, meself... Good to see some people waking up from apathy.
The tories have basically killed the unions with T***ch** (swear filter avoidance gone mad?) effectively removing the right to strike, although the union is more than this, if you remove one of the main weapons you remove their power and their main source of publicity.
did i hear the govt were going to bring in emergency legislation to ban/make this action illegal..
we really can't be far from scenes like Egypt/France/Greece,any other place that has had civil disruption due to cuts....
But if people are loosing their jobs, paying to be in a union is a pointless waste of money, so the union looses that money, and the menber and becomes less potent.
Then we have the train drivers union strikeing on the first day of the rugby in south wales, now what is that going to achieve for them, absolutely no public sympathy at all.
When there is no more money what are they striking for? 😆
they are not at all bothered about their members loosing their jobs, having their pensions rights changed, having their salaries frzxen whilst inflation rises
Er, remind me what's been happening to employees in the private sector, which actually pays for all this, over the last couple of years.
But if people are loosing their jobs, paying to be in a union is a pointless waste of money, so the union looses that money, and the menber and becomes less potent.
It is equally pointless to strike and cripple a company into bankruptcy. To take a cliché, 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
Plus unions do alot of other work.
But if people are loosing their jobs, paying to be in a union is a pointless waste of money, so the union looses that money, and the menber and becomes less potent.
Well this is all true but if you think that is their reason for acting rather than what I said then you are being a little deluded.
Public sector staff are always the easy target for a govenment looking to save jobs and, therefore, money. It used to be that a lot of jobs could be 'lost' numerically by transferring them to a contractor with, in effect, the same staff still doing the same job. The headline figures showed a reduction of government staff and so everyone was happy. Now real cuts seem to be on the agenda, so how can anyone not expect people to protest, and if the only way they can do that is by withdrawing their labour who can blame them? Don't forget that a strike costs people money: they do not do it for fun. Also, there is no right to strike in this country.
Junkyard the unions job is to protect jobs,and to keep themselves in jobs, the governmnets job is to save money we dont have,so cutting budgets is the only way, or reducing pay scales, and working harder.
projet....................are you serious.........i hope not.
Now real cuts seem to be on the agenda, so how can anyone not expect people to protest, and if the only way they can do that is by withdrawing their labour who can blame them?
We could have a solution here! If they stay out on strike for *just* long enough, then not having to pay their wages while on strike will mean the govt save enough money that nobody has to be laid off 8)
Ton of course i was joking on the second bit above, but a lot of councils and companies are asking/teling the staff to take pay cuts and they are.
A lot of LA jobs have been created as non jobs, to soak up unemployment and create empires for the management, these are the jobs that should go,everyone of has abn idea of non jobs and there should be a list made with them at the top of if .
You missed raising taxes and get non doms to pay their way and taking bankers bonuses whilst expousing yout TINA* argument. It is a choice as to how to balance the books and how quickly. Perhaps we could have raised income tax for the wealthy rather than VAT for us all for example?
*There
Is
No
Alternative
Is the government not interested in keeping their own job? It is all that motivates them isnt it get re-elected do you have the same view of them?
Edit: front line jobs will be hit delivery staff, raod mender, refuse collectors . Did you get your list of non jobs from the Daily mail 😉
Union membership has been declining for years.
The biggest mistake people are making in this debate IMO is to think public sector have it bad and private doesn't. Private sector's been hard for the last few years, job security is low and pensions are hard to come by and it's hardly an easy life now.
TBH the whole crash and recession has had such a fundamental an impact on our confidence in the system and the future that it's pretty irrelevant who your employer is... it's hard for everyone.
And i do think the unions need to think sensibly about where their support will come from if they play the 'we're being victimised, everyone else is ok card' because I doubt very few amongst the general public feel ok enough to have sympathy with it
TBH the whole crash and recession has had such a fundamental an impact on our confidence in the system and the future that it's pretty irrelevant who your employer is... it's hard for everyone.
And i do think the unions need to think sensibly about where their support will come from if they play the 'we're being victimised, everyone else is ok card' because I doubt very few amongst the general public feel ok enough to have sympathy with it
you are absolutely spot on
two points
1. Divide and conquer
2.Much higer unionistaion in public sector and generally better conditions ...could there be a link there?
Junky - how about the Irish approach?
Rather than laying people off, an across the board paycut - would you prefer that perhaps?
A year and a bit ago, a former employer of mine where I still have a great many friends, turned round to the staff and gave them a choice - either everyone gives up their overtime payments until further notice, or we make redundancies - unsurprisingly enough the unanimous reaction was to lose the overtime, equivalent to a 15% pay cut for nearly all.
So, instead of whinging, come up with an alternative - either save money, or lose staff - that is exactly the choice that has been tackled in the private sector!
Junkyard all councils have a statutory duty under law to empty bins and keep roads in a good condition, eg the highways act,
The main reason there is higher union membership in the public sector is because the huge private sector firms which once dominated the economy have gone (e.g. In manufacturing) as jobs are offshored, the number of SMEs has grown and labour markets have become more flexible to suits the need of business - otherwise known as the shift from Fordism to post-Fordism.
What I don't understand is why people accept the 'race to the bottom' approach to so-called reforms to pensions, pay, employment conditions. Why make public sector pensions more like the relatively worse ones many in the private sector have to accept? Why not hold up final salary, well protected pensions as the aim for all workers no matter who employs them?
I'm a member of a union and think they are vital for all workers. But i also think a more modern approach needs to be taken by both unions and employers. I also think unions don't do themselves any favours for allowing people not doing good jobs to continue in their employment with little hope of the sack or even official warnings.
don simon - Member
"It is equally pointless to strike and cripple a company into bankruptcy. To take a cliché, 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing."
But as a way of getting your demands listened to, it's hard to beat being able to threaten striking and crippling a company into bankruptcy. After all for the management giving in to union demands is better than losing everything. But for some reason this argument doesn't seem as popular.
brooess - Member
"And i do think the unions need to think sensibly about where their support will come from if they play the 'we're being victimised, everyone else is ok card' because I doubt very few amongst the general public feel ok enough to have sympathy with it"
You're missing the point there- this is not a "We're being victimised, everyone else is OK" situation- this is an "everyone is being shafted" situation. We're not talking about one union striking for one group of workers.
true but what has that got to do with this debate thought you wanted to discuss unions nt statutory duties of LA's?
Zulu - i run script blocker for your posts 😆
God bless programmers
ah, boo hoo Junky -
Come on - why not be realistic
A friend of mine is a school governor. When asked if cuts of 10% had to be made whether this could be achieved by sacking one of the ten teachers or cutting all salaries by 10%.
I found his response amazing. He claimed that even suggesting to staff that they might reduce their salaries was a non-starter. It just wouldn't even be contemplated.
Of course the nine remaining teachers would all complain later and write letters to the Guardian about evil Tory cuts but they wouldn't voluntarily reduce their standard of living to save a colleague's job.
The eternal cry of the Unionised workforce! "I'm alright Jack"
Just used another browser to see your reply predictable faux upset [didnt read sthat tbh] but I bet you still post stuff up to me even though you know i wont be reading ...let your actions speak for your feelings sweetheart 😉
Jesus, have you [b]still[/b] got your lip out over the name issue [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cuts-union-knee-jerk-response-or-last-line-of-defence-against-the-torries/page/5#post-1807611 ]Junky?[/url]
I mean, come on, move on darling - you're really [b]still[/b] stewing over that?
CaptJon sums up my views far more eloquently than I could have.
Terribly nice of you old boy.
So, instead of whinging, come up with an alternative - either save money, or lose staff - that is exactly the choice that has been tackled in the private sector!
So in the context that the private sector is having to compete with businesses from abroad and it's associated cheaper labour, and as a result is shedding jobs or employees taking pay cuts, how the hell is it going to create more jobs to compensate for all the public sector job losses? Take into account that a large portion of public sector money which is spent in the private sector is disappearing too.
Now if you can answer that one Z11 you'll be doing better than Osborne and co. Oh, and meanwhile in the US the quarterly figures show a 3.2% increase in it's economy.
This Government has done a couple of good things. It's kicked off the union movement again and managed to politicize the Students of middle class families.
I only ever joined a union under protest but never paid the political levy to the labour party
Besides, who is going to staff all these multiple & competing entities
cheaper immigrant labour?
A friend of mine is a school governor. When asked if cuts of 10% had to be made whether this could be achieved by sacking one of the ten teachers or cutting all salaries by 10%.
Teachers pay can be quite poor an nqt earns little when you think of the responsibility they have
If I employed anyone who went on strike I would just make their job redundant and legally create another position that they were unable to do
Zulu-Eleven - Member
"A friend of mine is a school governor. When asked if cuts of 10% had to be made whether this could be achieved by sacking one of the ten teachers or cutting all salaries by 10%."
I'd say "Are you out of your ****ing minds? Schools aren't that well funded anyway and teachers don't get paid enough considering the jobs they do. If there's money for fannying around with nuclear submarines there's money for schools. You can't just offer 2 terrible choices and act surprised when people don't want to choose either. Cut something else. Offer the right choices in the first place."
But I suppose TINA eh.
If I employed anyone who went on strike I would just make their job redundant and legally create another position that they were unable to do
Brilliant. Why didn't anyone else think of that? Oh, that's right, Industrial tribunals costs the employers money.
You can't just offer 2 terrible choices and act surprised when people don't want to choose either.
He's deflecting attention away from the fact that it's the Tories that are forcing these choices on people.
Er, remind me what's been happening to employees in the private sector, which actually pays for all this, over the last couple of years.
I'm sorry pays for all what? You pay my taxes, no. Ah you pay my wages? No. You pay my union fees? No. So I'm sorry what us it you pay for? Ah must be my pension? No not that either.
Today the unions have anounced a day of action in March
They announced it last year.
God there are some reactionary numpties on this site............when the system craps on us all, blame those challenging the system, not the system itself. Yeah, right. Back to your caves boys.
Union Leaders? Politicians? Is there a difference??
I can understand the history of and need for unions; I can also understand the history of and need for government.
What strikes me [see what I did there 😉 ] is that a lot of people start off with good intentions and then get embroiled in the power, greed, and corruption of being a fat-cat union leader or politician. Union Leaders are politicians that aren't MPs! Party politics prevail which is why unions raise their heads above the media parapet when we have a right-wing government and work behind the scenes of a left-wing government. We currently have a right-wing government ergo the union leaders are raising the ante. The current swingeing range of cutbacks are just a sideshow 😕
Union memberships will rise would be my guess
Judging by the number of folk over the last couple of years on here who have been asking for employment advice a lot more of you could do with being in a union.
Unionised workplace no matter what the sector have better terms and conditions.
Its not all about strikes you know.
Well, sadly Br0one and Bliar lulled people into a false sense of security when we created 00000's of Jobs in the public sector that were meaningless. They have to go.
The worrying thing about the Con-Dem approach is the triple whammy of: Job cuts, pay freezes AND Tax hikes. It's pricing people out into oblivion.
Not saying the latter wouldn't have occurred if Br0one had stayed in.
Sadly, the UK lost its manufacturing clout as a result of unionised greed and poor labour practices; as a result we're a service nation in a global recession where nations don't have the money to outsource their services.
We're f00ked!