Armed insurrection is the only solution.
Damn that US military-industrial complex!
They're after your oil & gas fields, comrade.
What crisis? My Ukrainian oil shares are as hopeless now as they were before all this started. 🙂
They're after your oil & gas fields, comrade.
I taught wee 'Eck all his best work 😉
I taught wee 'Eck all his best work
THM, we have a live one - scramble your rapid-thread-response unit.
Other than that dodgy treaty thing they signed to get the nukes, I don't really see what it's got to do with the EU or the bloody US, Crimea was Russian anyway until Kruschev gave it away in 1954 and lots of them didn't much like that.
What if we'd given Scotland away to Southern Ireland, they then wanted to come back, but the US and Eu started up, what would we think, other than we'd probably have to wall them up...erm come to think of it isn't that's what's going to happen anyway?
This week's Private Eye says it all - essential reading, I think - unless you take the puffed up, posturing of the Western leaders seriously, that is!
derekfish - Member
...What if we'd given Scotland away to Southern Ireland, they then wanted to come back, but the US and Eu started up, what would we think, other than we'd probably have to wall them up...erm come to think of it isn't that's what's going to happen anyway?
No, no, you've got it wrong.
Shift Hadrian's wall further south to stop the barbarians coming north, and give Scotland the north of England.
Then you'll get open access like we have in Scotland. Think of all that lovely riding in the Lake District and Yorkshire and the posh nobs won't be able to do a thing about you going wherever you want. You'll never need to go to a trail park again (unless you want to).
We could call our new country The United Kingdom of Northern Britain. 🙂
The killer bonus is once we meld our various cuisines, we'll be able to enjoy deep fried butties after a ride.
Stoner - MemberIm sure someone smarter than me will tell me why, democratically at least, a Crimean referendum on state affiliation is such a terrible thing.
The Russian ethnic majority in the Crimea was created when Stalin deported huge numbers of the population. So saying self-determination for the Crimea today is good, can be seen as essentially endorsing ethnic cleansing. So, it is basically a total ****ing mess.
I won't recognise the independence of ****stan as to do so would endorse British ethic cleansing of India.
And don't get me started on Palestine.
The US is making a few little adjustments...
[url= http://news.yahoo.com/us-sends-six-fighters-nato-baltics-patrols-lithuania-150042846.html ]http://news.yahoo.com/us-sends-six-fighters-nato-baltics-patrols-lithuania-150042846.html[/url]
[url= http://news.yahoo.com/us-destroyer-en-route-black-sea-routine-drills-160237512.html;_ylt=AwrTWVXrnxhTIwcAxYLQtDMD ]http://news.yahoo.com/us-destroyer-en-route-black-sea-routine-drills-160237512.html;_ylt=AwrTWVXrnxhTIwcAxYLQtDMD[/url]
[url= http://news.yahoo.com/us-bolster-military-support-poland-baltic-162411959.html ]http://news.yahoo.com/us-bolster-military-support-poland-baltic-162411959.html[/url]
Shift Hadrian's wall further south to stop the barbarians coming north, and give Scotland the north of England.
That sort of talk has caused trouble before. I blame Malcolm.
The Russian ethnic majority in the Crimea was created when Stalin deported huge numbers of the population. So saying self-determination for the Crimea today is good, can be seen as essentially endorsing ethnic cleansing. So, it is basically a total ****ing mess.
Maybe, but not letting go of things that have happened in the past is a major source of current and future problems.
epicyclo - Member
derekfish - Member
...What if we'd given Scotland away to Southern Ireland, they then wanted to come back, but the US and Eu started up, what would we think, other than we'd probably have to wall them up...erm come to think of it isn't that's what's going to happen anyway?
No, no, you've got it wrong.Shift Hadrian's wall further south to stop the barbarians coming north, and give Scotland the north of England.
Then you'll get open access like we have in Scotland. Think of all that lovely riding in the Lake District and Yorkshire and the posh nobs won't be able to do a thing about you going wherever you want. You'll never need to go to a trail park again (unless you want to).
We could call our new country The United Kingdom of Northern Britain.
The killer bonus is once we meld our various cuisines, we'll be able to enjoy deep fried butties after a ride.
Hmm if it was up to me that wall would be erected North of the Thames and we'd chuck in all those city boys and anybody else who speaks funny, I wonder if Putin would consider taking Kent into the Russian Federation, well come to think of it the southern bit, I don't expect it be interested in the inbreds North of the Medway.
As much as you guys aren't going to like this....
"David Cameron says it cannot be business as usual".
He's right
Private investment into Russia just got sent back years.... and it's something they desperately need.
Has Putin really "won" ?
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piemonster - MemberMaybe, but not letting go of things that have happened in the past is a major source of current and future problems.
Absolutely. And that's why it's a total ****ing mess, it always is when you're looking at least-bad answers instead of desirable ones.
The Russian ethnic majority in the Crimea was created when Stalin deported huge numbers of the population. So saying self-determination for the Crimea today is good, can be seen as essentially endorsing ethnic cleansing. So, it is basically a total ****ing mess.
You mean like say the falklands isles, Northern Ireland [ that was literally a plantation] or Gibraltar...that sort of thing?
I think for it to be classed as ethnic cleansing they would need to eradicate all the other ethnic races rather than just outnumber them in a vote. They have done what we do in many of our overseas territories.
Of course I do not think it is correct but we can look at home for this as well. I imagine it is many of the same folk who are annoyed at Russia who would fit to the death to keep ours.
Junkyard - lazarusYou mean like say the falklands isles, Northern Ireland [ that was literally a plantation] or Gibraltar...that sort of thing?
Yup. But there are people still alive today who remember being kicked out of the Crimea, and people still alive who were moved in to replace them, which makes it a bit harder to say "Ah well it's all in the past". At what point do you recognise a difference between Gibraltar, or the Crimea, or an Israeli settlement built yesterday?
The answer is probably just when it's politically expedient to do so. Not convinced that's a worse answer than any other personally, you've got to decide somehow.
Like being past a certain age, politicians really do need to learn how (if at all IMO) and when to use social media. Pictures of CMD and Obama on the phone looking earnest with sleeves rolled up look frankly ridiculous. We know you are working on it, but don't need the staged photos.
Not surprised that they get mocked.
[i]I think for it to be classed as ethnic cleansing they would need to eradicate all the other ethnic races [/i]
And thats exactly what Stalin attempted to do in certain areas of the Ukraine, according to some (Ukranian) historians. And there are still people alive who remember it.
Like being past a certain age, politicians really do need to learn how (if at all IMO) and when to use social media.
Or they could get some media coaching, and learn from the master. Smile for the camera…..
😀
Ro5ey - Member
...Private investment into Russia just got sent back years.... and it's something they desperately need...
They'll just sell off a few football teams and everything will be rosy again...
They could make a tidy profit on the half of London they own.
They could make a tidy profit on the half of London they own.
Not sure anyone else could afford to buy it.....
What is Russia doing? No, just no.
Ah, the voice of reason at last:
so how did yanukovich smuggle biullions from ukraine...
- via a kitchen fitters in cardiff
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=news&issue=1361
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ninfan - Member
Ah, the voice of reason at last:www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpDFDH5HjU8
And like it or not, he's spot on.
WTF is going on with Galloway's accent? Is he trying to be Russian??
Interesting article in the New York Times today
[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/opinion/londons-laundry-business.html?hpw&rref=opinion ]London's Laundry Business[/url]
max has been tilting at that particular windmill for a long time
Well, March 16th is the day the Crimea decides it's future. Trouble is the rest of Ukraine is taking the view of the West and already calling it illegal . So I can see it all kicking off as we already know Crimea will vote to be Russian.
There may be (more) trouble ahead.....
I've heard it's going to split into 2 .
One country will be called Raine.
The other will become UK because that's where Russian billionaires like to live. 🙂
rossi46 - Member
Well, March 16th is the day the Crimea decides it's future. Trouble is the rest of Ukraine is taking the view of the West and already calling it illegal . So I can see it all kicking off as we already know Crimea will vote to be Russian.
There may be (more) trouble ahead.....
the problem is that crimea is only just majority russian 45% of the population are ukranian, will they be forced to leave their homes if they dont want to become russian?
The russian embassy on Notting Hill always has some coppers outside and there are often demos over the road; syria, pussy riot, gay rights, ukraine etc
but theres a house further down Notting Hill that I assume is the ambassadors house has had police outside lately and this morning there were 2 police both with submachine guns.
will they be forced to leave their homes if they dont want to become russian?
Serbians in Kosovo? Brits in Scotland?
I'm afraid that the right to self determination and democracy work that way, Crimea has long been an Autonomous republic and as such its pretty difficult to argue that they should not now be allowed to exercise that autonomy - we can't just pick and choose because we think that the West/Europe is somehow inherently 'right'.
As a slight aside, have you seen Putins approval ratings this week?
70%. So I guess the people who are going to be voting at the election are giving him a resounding thumbs for whats gone on. I wonder if any of the western leaders presently trying not to look too pathetically impotent, would poll even half that with their electorates. Did you see Obama's vague, none-specific 'threats' of 'a price to pay' this morning? All just hot air. He's not fooling anyone. Not even himself.
Its just reinforces the opinion that the Lion-wrestler is the shrewdest politician out there by a country mile, and there really is only one person in a position to be issuing high-handed decrees. Though he isn't. He's just letting the 'facts on the ground' speak for themselves
The best review of the situation I've seen is this one, which seems fair to both sides and is written by a Ukrainian :
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/ukraine-and-west-hot-air-hypocrisy-crimea-russia ]Grauniad[/url]
That nytimes article
Britain, open for business, no longer has a “mission.” Any moralizing remnant of the British Empire is gone;
Pretty sure he should broaden his historical knowledge a bit, iirc John Company was quite keen on making a few bob at the expense of others.
Seems more like business as usual.
good link Moses
have you seen Putins approval ratings this week?70%.
The lowest approval rating Putin has ever had since 2000 is 61%, almost twice the approval rating that Cameron can expect to get.
However unpalatable it might be Putin is popular with a clear majority of Russians, he doesn't really need to boost his ratings.
On the other hand Cameron, Obama, Hollande, etc, could do with a substantial boost to their approval ratings from their electorate.
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ok ill readjust that from ernies data- 41.5% of crimeans arent russian!
Im going on what a ukranian facebook friend and ex-coleague told me!
