[Closed] Ukraine Crimea Crisis

Putin has toned down the rhetoric somewhat. But not because of anything Europe or America has done

Basically he'll have had a load of Oligarchs phone him up after looking at the markets, and seeing how much their vast fortunes just dropped in value

O!! You've made your point! Thats enough now! Don't forget who's putting all those millions into those Swiss bank accounts of yours! You can do all the posturing you like, until it starts costing me money. Then it stops. ...Got that? …Good!

I'm impressed you got it deadly. Took a couple of minutes that one.

Oh really? 😉

You think Putin keeps his money at home??????

At least the Champions league has a wholly appropriate sponsor.

I think he keeps his money anywhere but at home thm. Switzerland? London? Along with his friends

But I imagine those people who pay his wages will still have interests which means keeping a certain amount of their capital invested/tied up in the motherland. The bare minimum probably. But I imagine thats still a sizeable sum. And they possess the only voices that the homo-erotic bear hunter is interested in listening too. And if they're losing money as a result of this….

Indeed which is why his strategic sense needs to be questioned here. Frankly hard to see any winners out of this. First step is a "legitimate" government irrespective of which way it faces. Without that, they can be no progress?

these concerned ukranians in the latest russian military gear seem to have borrowed lots of russian military vehicles too!

The photos of military vehicles with Russian plates in Crimea are “certainly a provocation,” Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said. He also dismissed as “absolute nonsense” the allegations that armed people in uniforms without insignia, who are present in the defiant Ukrainian region, are actually Russian soldiers.
The troops in question are part of Crimean self-defense force, Russian officials insist. Moscow has no idea how they came into possession of military hardware, including armored vehicles, Shoigu stated.

seosamh77 - Member
Epicycpo - you do know that the nukes at faslane are in submarines, aye? Seems kinda pointless nuking a base when the nukes arent likely to be there.

I'd suggest your hysteria, is a tad premature and unnecessary! (Much like it would have been at the height of the cold war proxy wars):lol:

Yeah, I know they're in subs. The point being not necessarily to blast the subs, but to pick a target that will demonstrate their resolve, but allow for further negotiations, eg "So sorry, we thought they were about to launch a missile at us from that sub somewhere close to Glasgow so we had to take it out. Now let's negotiate."

Hysteria? Don't think so. I can remember the Cuban missile crisis when we came very close to a nuclear war, so I take the prospect of nuclear attack seriously.

The govt of the time took it seriously too. I don't know if you were around at the time, but I remember the Civil defence exercises, the regular testing of the warning sirens to let you know 3 minutes before you're fried, the building of underground bunkers, etc.

I sincerely hope you're right though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/05/russia-arms-trade_n_4901787.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
seems like russia is using UK weapons too!

I'm beginning to think that the shark wrestler is a really sharp tactician.

Plus no one is going to go to war with a nuclear Super Power with a slightly unpredictable leader over an insignificant Eastern European country. He could drive the tanks all over the place and crush any opposition and no one outside would fire a single shot.

Hysteria? Don't think so. I can remember the Cuban missile crisis when we came very close to a nuclear war, so I take the prospect of nuclear attack seriously.

Come back to reality ffs. 😆 The nuclear "deterrent" isn't there to stop Russia and China and the likes attacking, it's there so small nations can be bullied. It's a show of stength, nothing more.

kimbers - Member
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/05/russia-arms-trade_n_4901787.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
seems like russia is using UK weapons too!

One of the worlds largest arms dealers in arms export shocker! this place is hilarious at times!

WE SELL WEAPONS TO DODGY REGIMES?!!!!! I'm shocked!!! And outraged!!!

binners - Member
WE SELL WEAPONS TO DODGY REGIMES?!!!!! I'm shocked!!! And outraged!!!

im just sad that we sell weapons at all

We could make friendship bracelets instead. And dreamcatchers 😀

"Diplomatic efforts to ease tensions in Ukraine are gathering pace as US Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov prepare to hold crucial talks in Paris." Apparently.

Kerry - "You just CAN'T do this!"

Lavrov: "?? ??? ??????"...

seosamh77 - Member
...The nuclear "deterrent" isn't there to stop Russia and China and the likes attacking, it's there so small nations can be bullied. It's a show of stength, nothing more.

That's how we use ours.

Do you know Putin's thinking?

As long as there are nuclear weapons there is the possibility they can be used.

. Do you know Putin's thinking?

There's logic in taking Crimea, there's zero logic in firing nukes.

The BBC has a lot to answer for with their hysteria.

Frigging nukes, really get a grip. Our world leaders are unscrupulous, not stupid.

[img] http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/c8d3c7ca-b2a3-42f6-8b9a-96076b18916b.img [/img]

Awwww doggy 😀

Why are the soldiers wearing knee pads - do they do carpet fitting in their spare time?

Why are the soldiers wearing knee pads

They are about to go Gnarpooning

This is all about money

Putin had managed to install a puppet government in Kiev, that was totally complicit in the Russian Mafia State of his oligarch mates. The population has had enough of it, and threw a strop, so he's decided to let them get on with it, and just take the bit thats useful to him and his rich gangster, and uber-nationalist friends.

I doubt he's got the remotest interest in the rest of Ukraine. He'll leave them to it, while making things as difficult as possible for them, just for a laugh. Turning off the gas supplies whenever he feels like it. That type of thing

The outcome of this will be an annexed Crimea as part of Russia, and a democratic Ukraine thats basically Putins cat, that he gets to kick whenever he's in bad mood

I shouldn't think it'll be too long before the Ukrainian people are wondering why they bothered swapping dictatorial rule from Moscow for dictatorial rule from Berlin. Its still as corrupt. Its just that the EU is better at covering it all up, whereas Russia seems almost proud of it

binners- sounding more UKIP every day!!! 😉

[i]an insignificant Eastern European country[/i]

Not sure I would call Ukraine "insignificant"

What crisis, and what's all this nonsense about WW3? The financial markets have practically shrugged it off and they rarely make the wrong call.

Putin had managed to install a puppet government in Kiev

Putin didn't install anyone in Kiev. There was a presidential election in 2010 in which the two front runners were crooks but which nevertheless was recognized as fair.

[b][i]"International observers have warmly praised the election as a significant step forward from the fraud-marred poll of 2004" [/i][/b]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/18/viktor-yanukovich-wins-election-round

If there was any outside involvement in the presidential election of 2010 it was from the United States. It was US Republican strategists who were behind Yanukovich's successful presidential election campaign, not Kremlin backroom boys.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/world/europe/30ukraine.html?_r=1&

[b][i]But Mr. Yanukovich has not done it all on his own. From an anonymous office off Kiev’s main square, a seasoned American political strategist who was once a senior aide in Senator Bob Dole’s Republican presidential campaign has labored for months on a Yanukovich makeover.

Though the strategist, Paul J. Manafort, has sought to remain behind the scenes, his handiwork has been evident in Mr. Yanukovich’s tightly organized campaign events, in his pointed speeches and in how he has presented himself to the world.

Mr. Manafort is by no means the only well-known American strategist lured to Kiev by the prospect of sizable fees and the chance to shape the course of a young and tumultuous democracy.

The changes that the American consultants bring to a relatively unsophisticated political culture can be seen in Mr. Yanukovich’s television commercials. The party’s advertisements used to feature Mr. Yanukovich lecturing to the camera, in Communist-era newscast style. Now they have a buoyant American sensibility, with Mr. Yanukovich strolling through sunny neighborhoods, surrounded by smiling Ukrainians of all ages.

Both the Yanukovich and Yushchenko camps, fearful of accusations of meddling by the United States, have sought to keep the American consultants out of the public eye, often asking them to sign confidentiality agreements. Most of the consultants would not comment or did not respond to messages. [/i][/b]

And it wasn't just the generous fees which the American Republican strategists were interested in :

[b][i]Mr. Manafort said such criticism was unfair, and he emphasized that his vision for Ukraine extended far beyond Sunday.

“I am not here just for the election,” he said. “I am trying to play a constructive role in developing a democracy. I am helping to build a political party.”[/i][/b]

Putin down the phone...

[img] [/img][b]

Crimea River 😆

[img] [/img]

For one second, for one fleeting second, I read the thread title as a problem with Ukranian exports of these...

[img] [/img]

Hats off to Wiggles, I fekken love that

Russia today has already decided where the Crimea belongs;

[img] [/img]

Well It looks like thats all pretty much done and dusted then?

That was an absolute masterclass in realpolitik from the in-the-closet shark-puncher. He's now got a new country to add to his collection, and realistically theres not a bloody thing anyone can do about it, however much blustering they do to try and cover up their impotence

Yup.

Why are the soldiers wearing knee pads - do they do carpet fitting in their spare time?

Because dropping to your knees on concrete to fire off a shot/lower your profile is uncomfortable.

I thought it was because they all had part time jobs as fluffers

That would be this guy.

[img] [/img]

The Russians are getting carried away now;

[img] [/img]

"David Camoron says it cannot be business as usual".
Blimey I bet the Russians are cacking themselves!
What's he going to do? Impose a bedroom tax on the Kremlin? 😆

Dave's just popped up on the news to say there will be further consequences for Russia. Further? Further to what?
The Americans have said they will ' stand firm' on potentially bringing in visa restrictions

Yep. The crocodile wrestler must be quaking in his boots! The 'facts on the ground' in Crimea already look pretty permanent to me. It's almost as if it had been planned all along?

Self determination, the good:
Falklands
Gibraltar
Georgia
Scotland
Kosovo
Chechnya

Self determination, the bad:
Euskadi
Catalonia
Crimea

Im sure someone smarter than me will tell me why, democratically at least, a Crimean referendum on state affiliation is such a terrible thing.

someone smarter than me

Basically its because they are the baddies.

Being wrong on economics and politics doesnt make you any less smart than me, junky. Just mistaken 🙂

Now now boys. Play nice. 😀

You forgot the Chagos Islands Stoner.

But please don't tell me that you've only just discovered that the UK's/US's/EU's commitment to democracy is only for as long as it serves their purpose ?

I had you down as a little smarter than that ! 🙂

The bastards have poo-poohed our plans for the self-determination of Malvernia as well. I was a shoe-in for Minister for Finance and Woodfuel. Damn that US military-industrial complex!