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Trump had been pressuring for the Tates to be released, even the Tories were raising concerns about it, as they are wanted here as well.
Yet another thing the RoW needs to be shaming Trump for and calling him out on. No one accused of such crimes should be able to travel while under investigation. We shouldn't be snuggling up to such regimes. Political pragmatism or not, there's a morally right or wrong aspect that needs to be flagged.
French and UK forces on the ground? Where are the Turks? And the Sardinian may still have a role to play
As for keeping the border secure, how about a million networked drones on the front line. Step over the border an instantly, you’ve got 10,000 drones on your ass giving you a really bad day.
You need to bear in mind that 'border' means different things to different parties in this conflict. Where are you going to define it that is not going to piss off someone?
As for the drones, yeah, it's an option, but what about if people get lost? Or someone/AI defines a bunch of football supporters heading south in coaches as a military convoy? Or... Or... Air power can help you take a place, but boots on the ground holds it.
As for UK and French troops acting as a buffer, I don't think Vlad will go for it. He'd probably accept NorKs or the Chinese, but not NATO. I'm also not really sure that the UK has the troop to be effective in keeping the peace on a border that size, maybe not even with the help of the Reserves.
Sorry, my Tate post should have gone on the Trump thread. Can I blame the new forum....?
Can I blame the new forum....?
Yep. It's the reason I post absolute gibberish most of the time. What I type is clear, concise and eloquent. Honest. Then I hit submit, the forum jumbles it around and posts dog poo.
I did submit a complaint to the mountain biking forum ombudsman, but apparently they couldn't make head nor tail of it.
It's the reason I post absolute gibberish most of the time. What I type is clear, concise and eloquent. Honest. Then I hit submit, the forum jumbles it around and posts dog poo.
Thank goodness, I thought it was just me
The border will be defined by the peace process, a de militarised zone or some such.
I'm expecting Musk, his kids, pet dog and ketamine stash to gatecrash the Starmer / trump meeting and do that power trip thumb-finger gesture... all while wearing a baseball cap and t-shirt.
Whatever peace deal or support given to Ukraine, someones are going to get very rich. Rich beyond their own imagination.
Projects to rebuild, reconstruct Ukraine etc mean more funds needed to cover the cost of the rebuilding etc, and those involve in the projects will inflate the cost accordingly and someones will get a very good income out of the all the projects.
As for all the talks about having some sort of military help etc with EU/NATO troops (they are the same) stationed there, that's just a string attach to ignite the next conflicts, and an excuse to have more rebuilding projects etc.
The rare minerals payment, that's also an excuse to ignite future conflicts with an excuse of "protecting interest".
The sad thing is that the real Ukrainians are being played like the fiddle.
My childhood site of potential nuclear vaporisation is potentially nuclear armed again according to this Warzone article https://www.twz.com/air/usaf-air-base-in-england-is-nuclear-capable-again-watchdog-report
Not sure there's a right thread for this it's either here or the Trumpets thread.
Indicators started appearing in 2022 so may get canned by the current admin.
My childhood site of potential nuclear vaporisation is potentially nuclear armed again according to this Warzone article
I don't think there will be a nuclear war anytime soon if Trump is the President.
Having said that Ukraine increasing desperate "elites" might just throw a spanner into the work by creating the Archduke Franz Ferdinand moment. Then sparks will fly and we all get bbq.
I'll stick this here too, not because my comments are important, but because it preserves the sense of this thread
Re the Trump-Zelensky meeting on 28th Feb
I've considered that disgraceful spectacle for a while now.
The seating is set out the same for the visits of President Macron and PM Starmer and the cameras stay on President Trump and guest the same, until it begins to get heated around 35 mins in, so I don't believe that it's a tag-team set-up
President Zelensky can be blunt, we've heard it before, but there's absolutely no empathy shown either by Trump or VP Vance because he objected to Trump's wish for a ceasefire.
Zelensky wants a lasting peace and it's surely understandable for someone speaking in a second language and who must be battered and exhausted after more than three years of invasion to be a little blunt.
I did wonder if there was some notion of breaking Zelensky both personally and publicly for the people of Ukraine to force a change of President to someone who would acquiesce to the US, but I saw anger rather than a plan. Trump reverted to his beliefs of "$350bn" and "you’re not acting at all thankful" (Zelensky has been thankful on many occasions before and the last time that Trump gave Ukraine anything was in his first presidency), etc.
This post from the aptly-named winston sums it up for me
There is no Machiavellian plan - if only as that would signify some kind of cohesive idea as to how all this is going to pan out.
It's notable that Marco Rubio, the US Secretary of State, just sat without a word for either side
From Reuters
DENMARK'S FOREIGN MINISTER LARS LOKKE RASMUSSEN ON FACEBOOK
"It's a punch in the gut for Ukraine. ... There must be room for robust conversations - even between friends. But when it happens in front of rolling cameras like that, there is only one winner. And he sits in the Kremlin."JOHANN WADEPHUL, DEPUTY OF CONSERVATIVE PARTY-GROUP IN GERMAN PARLIAMENT, THE PARTY OF INCOMING CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ, ON X
"The scenes from the White House are shocking. How can you stab the president of an invaded country in the back like this? Free Europe will not betray Ukraine!" https://www.reuters.com/world/world-reacts-zelenskiy-trump-oval-office-clash-2025-02-28/
So, today, Zelenskyy has been met by cheering crowds, and the UK has lent Ukraine £2.26bn to be repaid from the interest on frozen Russian assets.
1) I thought we were skint...
2) Repaid 🤣🤣🤣🤣
FML
1) I thought we were skint...
2) Repaid
FML
1) It's a loan
2) Repaid from interest in frozen Russian assets. The UK has frozen £18bn in Russian assets, I don't know how long it takes to make £2.6bn on the interest from that but printing money must be pretty straightforward when you know it will be paid back eventually.
It would be good do similar for all the other stuff we are too skint to do, maybe this is a start though and it will benefit the UK, as well as Ukraine.
Maybe in your head it is?
My question is simple.
Does the "collective" merrily share the spoils of Russian's frozen assets?
There is something about this sharing of spoils ... hhhhmmmm ...
Russia's frozen assets are still sitting in banks. The banks do the work of investing the funds and the return from their investment is given to Ukraine
The "spoils of war" are frozen waiting for Russia to stop its war, the EU alone has over €210bn. The cost of rebuilding Ukraine is currently estimated around a trillion $$ over ten years
You could conclude that if Russia hadn't started this war then their assets wouldn't be frozen and they wouldn't be needed under international law to rebuild the country that they destroyed, but that's too simple
Norway turns away a US submarine from refuelling.
It seems to be a Facebook post which has since been deleted. I wonder if it was even genuine?
Seems the ambush in the White House was carefully planned to try to destroy Zelenskyy’s reputation at home…
Glad it didn’t work, and Zelenskyy is more popular at home now than before!
And Ukraine is Taking back ground in Toretsk. Trump really is Putins last hope.
I thought there was a reasonable theory that the main thing the Ukrainians have to do is keep grinding the Russian army down, minimise their own casualties and wait for the Russian economy to collapse?
I thought there was a reasonable theory that the main thing the Ukrainians have to do is keep grinding the Russian army down, minimise their own casualties and wait for the Russian economy to collapse?
The Russian economy won't collapse while the likes of China and India - both ruled by nationalist strongman, funnily enough - continue to trade with it.
Yeah the Russian economy is doing fine, 30% inflation and 21% interest rates, army recruitment down 80%.
Laura Kuensberg questioning to Zelensky was awful. How is that wretched gobshite still employed by the BBC?
Yeah the Russian economy is doing fine, 30% inflation and 21% interest rates, army recruitment down 80%.
You're forgetting that they have that industrial powerhouse that is North Korea backing them.
Laura Kuensberg questioning to Zelensky was awful. How is that wretched gobshite still employed by the BBC?
The problem that Kuenssberg has is that she’s just not very good. She owes her position to her access to the Tory front bench in an era of access journalism, but the world has moved on and she doesn’t have the same level of access to the other parties.
Theres a good bit on yesterday’s Quiet Riot podcast about the low quality of UK journalism, and we really need a national conversation about what we do about this. I’d argue that (as with donations to political parties), having our major media platforms owned by overseas domiciled billionaires is a national security issue…
Of course press ownership and the fact most of them are just tory propaganda organs is a real threat to society. Blair could have delt with this but cosied up to Murdoch instead
is a real threat to society
They might have been at some point in the past, but circulation of every newspaper is tanking all over the world. i think the circulation of every newspaper in the UK is something like 2.5 million copies. Even Murdoch thinks print news is dead on its feet.
I thought there was a reasonable theory that the main thing the Ukrainians have to do is keep grinding the Russian army down, minimise their own casualties and wait for the Russian economy to collapse?
That may have been me you remember saying this and it still holds water IMHO, Ukraine is almost always going to be outnumbered but has territorial depth that allows it to trade land in return for almost always having defenders' advantage in their engagements in the East. Basically bleeding the Russians white for every inch until they exhaust themselves.
It's a grim, horrible way to fight and surrendering your own land to the invaders is never what you want to do but given the situation Ukraine finds itself in, it's one of the few effective overarching strategies they have available to them, they can't afford the kinds of losses the Russian can and if that means a constant state of fighting retreat so be it.
And it's very slow work but it is working, Russian just quietly sold off a load of it's gold reserves, their cold war stockpiles are almost exhausted. The inflation and interest rates are both heading stubbornly skywards, recruitment has stalled and North Korea doesn't appear to have sent any more troops since the first 10,000 were used as cannon fodder. Biden, on this way out of the door, ensured that Ukraine had enough US aid to last at least into the summer. And Ukrainian EW efforts along the border are apparently finally proving effective against the 600KG FAB glide bombs that Russia has been using so effectively over the last 18 months.
Trump was Putin's ace in the hole and it may still work but fortunately for Ukraine his antics have been so obnoxious and egregious that it's prompted the rest of the 'West' the rally round Zelensky.
This missile deal, is that being paid for with "export financing" that I've seen described as a "loan".
Is some of that possibly political for the transaction focused US?
i think the circulation of every newspaper in the UK is something like 2.5 million copies. Even Murdoch thinks print news is dead on its feet.
The other problem is that even owners of print media can't control what independently-minded editors and journos publish, which is why control of the most popular social media platforms is so important.
The algorithm does what it's told, younger people read it and the echo chamber amplifies it
Prompted bay another post elsewhere looking at teh T7C's of teh Budapest Memorandum....
"Ukraine: The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 The following is the text of the Memorandum on Security Assurances, known as the Budapest Memorandum, in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, signed Dec. 5, 1994. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a nonnuclear-weapon State, Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time, Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces. Confirm the following:
1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE [Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe] Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE EIR February 21, 2014Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.
6.The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments. This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature. Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages."
And it's all signed from each country. Does this hold any legal standing given that russia and probably soon, the US, have driven a coach and horses through it Does it oblige the US (who is increasingly looking like they DGAS) to step up?
And it's all signed from each country. Does this hold any legal standing given that russia and probably soon, the US, have driven a coach and horses through it Does it oblige the US (who is increasingly looking like they DGAS) to step up?
Only Russia has broken its obligation (as you said). The US has always treated the Memoranda as not legally binding and presumably Russia agrees with that.
It's considered bad political form to break these agreements, which is why low-level assistance and weak economic sanctions were put in place in 2014.
I’m waiting for the bit where the US relaxes sanctions, does a mineral deal with russia and the occupied territories, then imports contractors there and exits Nato.
Ukraine then faces the dilemma of attacking not only occupying troops but US individuals too. 4d geopolitical chess, a done deal, Ukraine under the bus and putin with all the lolz.
oh how the collective west should have been stronger after the Crimean annexation but that was then, this is now.
Trump has "paused" military aid to Ukraine:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/04/us-military-aid-ukraine-pause-trump-zelenskyy-updates
He is in actual fact a Russian asset.
oh how the collective west should have been stronger after the Crimean annexation but that was then, this is now.
That's the political reality. It wasn't a good decision, but political decisions and good decisions rarely coincide
Trump has "paused" military aid to Ukraine:
It's now up to the US Congress because this goes against a Presidential authority to provide military aid (which includes transport BTW). I don't know what their options are; impeachment might be one, which would put VP Vance into the Oval Office